.25acp/auto moulds?

[adam38654]

Any one make .25 auto molds?

[Bret4207]

I don't know that Lyman makes their .251 mould any more, but they're on Ebay all the time. 252435 is the mould number.

BTW- You are a glutton for punishment if you want to try reloading the 25 Auto, much less casting for it! Good luck.

[Poygan]

RCBS has made a 25acp mold but I don't know if it is in current production. BTW, this is like casting, sizing and reloading with a tweezers.

[ronbo]

Not cast but Midsouth lists 25 acp bullets on closeout for $1.99 per hundred July special link Ron

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/july08_spl2.asp

[mtgrs737]

RCBS makes a 25 ACP mould but it is listed as a special which makes it twice the price! Over $100 new and a long wait on the spl. order from Midway. Best bet is to watch ebay for one, they can't be that popular.

[kingstrider]

Not cast but Midsouth lists 25 acp bullets on closeout for $1.99 per hundred July special link Ron

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/july08_spl2.asp

I tried the link but it says those are on CL-1 Purchase status, whatever that means. I'm thinking of buying a bunch for a Beretta Tomcat so will have to give them a call.

[Wayne Smith]

NEI #15 - .251-51-PB sounds like what you want. They cut good molds and state that "Cast diameters are .000 to .003 larger than listed diameters". I've usually got mine within two weeks. This one appears to have a lube groove and no crimp groove.

[adam38654]

At $20 for 50 and nearly $20 for 20 for HP i wouldn't mind using tweezers to load them. Finding the spent casings will be the hard part. I would load .22lr if i could. The gun i have is not some bo-bo Saturday night special .25 like most,except the berettas. It is a mint condition Colt Junior .25 passed down to me by my passed grandfather. They were only manufactured from 1958-1968 and are worth about $500.00+ in mint condition. Mine was actually made in Spain by Astra for Colt's.There like baby 1911 colt 45's. The parts are getting rare and expensive on these guns so i would like to shoot lead so the barrel will last longer. With the fine micro sights you would be surprised where i can put them at 25 yards.

Its like these.
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=104946825
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=105108546

What diameter is jacketed .25acp?Im assuming i should go .001 over sized for cast.

[adam38654]

NEI #15 - .251-51-PB sounds like what you want. They cut good molds and state that "Cast diameters are .000 to .003 larger than listed diameters". I've usually got mine within two weeks. This one appears to have a lube groove and no crimp groove.

Is that Lee? I couldn't find a link.

[Bret4207]

I had a Beretta 25 auto. 100% reliable with everything I tried. Killed a skunk and a racoon with it, maybe a couple other things. With decent sights I think they would be shooters.

[Wayne Smith]

Not Lee. NEI, and there is a website but I'm away from my desk and they are carpeting the stairs and upstairs hall so I can't get there. Do a search for NEI and Bullet Mold and it's likely to come up. They cut the mold when ordered, they have no stock. Iron, brass or aluminum blocks, all mine are aluminum.

[45 2.1]

NEI #15 - .251-51-PB sounds like what you want.

The NEI is an excellent boolit. I've had one for 15 years or so. Shoots to the sights and is very accurate in an Ortgies.

[Wayne Smith]

It is NEIhandtools.com Give them a try. It is Walt Melander's company now run by his daughter.

[Landric]

To revive a old, dead thread about mini-mouse boolits: I recently purchased a Lyman 252435 on Gunbroker as part of an auction that included the mold, .25 ACP dies, and 250 pieces of once fired brass. I looked around for a while for one of these molds, so I jumped on it. I couldn't find any of the big makers doing a .252 mold anymore, and Mountain Molds won't do one that small either.

I load the .25 ACP on my Lee Classic Turret. I've found that the most annoying thing about loading it is handling the small cases. Using the turret in auto index mode keeps case handling to a minimum, and .25 ACP projectiles are not really any smaller than .223 ones, which I load regularly. I think quality .25 ACP pistols are fun plinkers, and with cast boolits and the small powder charges they use, its hardly any more expensive than shooting .22LR.

[lwknight]

Primers alone cost as much as 22LR ammo. What can a 25acp do that a 22LR can't?

[Dframe]

I'm one of those people who load for damn near everything including the 25 auto. I've never had the tenacity to cast for it.

[Landric]

Primers alone cost as much as 22LR ammo. What can a 25acp do that a 22LR can't?

I guess that depends on what one is paying for primers. I recently bought some CCI SP primers for $22.50/1000. I can't buy 1000 rounds of .22 LR anywhere around here for $22.50, its more like $15-$20 per 500 these days in my area. With cast boolits there is no cost, I get the lead for free. Powder charges in the neighborhood of 1 grain mean nearly 7000 rounds per pound of powder, and a pound of powder is about $20, or about $3 per 1000 rounds. I already have the brass, and its easy to pick up .25 ACP brass at various ranges because almost no one reloads it. That is $25.50/1000, or just slightly more than .22 LR bulk packed ammunition is for 500 rounds.

What does the .25 Auto do better than the .22 LR. In my experience it is both more feed reliable than the .22 LR versions of the tiny pistols that use it and has better ignition reliability than rimfire ammunition.

[beagle]

It's not the cost on loading the .25 ACP but the challenge. Had a friend that loaded it with the Lyman bullet and he had a ball with it. Not much of around but he sure got satisfaction out of it./beagle

[kywoodwrkr]

I have/had the 25 mould in HP.
Made an extremely nice little round in my humble opinion.
Had RCBS DC mold as well, neve got it up and running.
Loaded the 25 bach in early 70's and made a sizing lubing die from a Herters 243 die.
There was a WTS on Castboolits with 25 brass and bullets day before yesterday if I remember correctly.
http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=75177
I bought a bunch of FMJ when stores put them on clearance many moons ago. Some new Hornady as well.
Clears your mind when you work with them for sure!:groner:
FWIW
PS Bought two little Bauers a couple years ago and am in throws of restoring them even now.
D.

[HORNET]

IIRC, Ranchdog was working on a design for the .25 before he got tired of fighting with Lee's ongoing problems. He claimed very good results from the prototype mold and it looked like it would be more effective than the typical RN.

[JIMinPHX]

A lot of guys turn their nose up at loading for the .25, either because it is so hard to handle those tiny little boolits, or because they find out that the terminal ballistics of a hot .22LR are better. But if you want to load that caliber, then go for it. Every gun has it's place in this world somewhere. Weight your powder charges carefully. Those things can be FUSSY about what they eat.

[deltaenterprizes]

I had 8 Lyman molds set up for a Magma auto casting machine. I modified a set of RCBS handles to allow using one of the molds to hand cast and had to use pure linotype to get complete base fill out.
I had a feed tube and still have the bushing for the feed bar on the Magma lubesizer. I still have the Star sizing die. The commercial loader I got the molds from was reloading the 25ACP on a Dillon 1000 for commercial sales!
I have a few bullets left and plan to use the dimensions to make a cherry and cut a mold one day maybe 2 and sell one!

[joedapro]

Primers alone cost as much as 22LR ammo. What can a 25acp do that a 22LR can't?

not jam. every 22 auto i have ever seen has had ammo related jamming problems. i have never had a malfunction from either of my .25's with any ammo.

[SARGENT ROCK]

It s A rimmed fire round. In the late seventies a friend cleared jam his sterling slide slip pinched round went off last time I checked HE S up to 36 percent use of this hand/wrist. The Ruger is big, safe and spits 22 rims out all day. But you put that same round in the vest pocket pistol. trouble with a capital T. Cannot reload. No full metal jacket rounds that I know of. And no exotic metal and lead cast bullets. do you know they have 25 ACP armor piercing rounds. And don't ask. That's all I will say! About those. And in Los Angeles California long time ago a bar fight ended up in an alley a shooting occurred 22 caliber semiautomatic vest pocket pistol point blank range not one round penetrated the victims head. But when your life is on the line and you have a 25 ACP it will defend your life. I guarantee it! With full metal jacket rounds. Mine spits out 10 rounds so fast you would swear it was an automatic weapon. And it never Jams-EVER!!!!!!!!!! :Fire: And with the popup barrel it's very safe. It is a shame it is not as popular as it should be. But nowadays everybody is magnum crazy. And because 25 ACP are so expensive that does make the 22 rim fire more attractive. If you want an inexpensive very small plinker 22. If you want the smallest self defense firearm 25 ACP is your best choice. That's my opinion.

[35remington]

In any cost accounting of reloading, all costs must be considered. Not just the ones that are more obvious.

This would include:

The cost of the propane or electricity to cast the bullets and the burner you're smelting it on.
Gas to obtain the "free" lead from wherever it came from.
The amortized costs of the presses, scales, lead melting pots, shellholders, powder measures, dies, moulds, and other equipment used to make the handloads. This is never "zero" and has a per round cost that is dependent upon the costs of these items divided by the number of rounds loaded over their lifespan.
The brass case with a per unit cost divided by the number of reloadings before the case is lost or it fails.
Lubricant used, and if homemade, the electricity or resources used to obtain it.

And probably several other things I'm forgetting.

Equipment is never "paid for".....it's just less in per round costs the more rounds you load. The costs are still there.

It's rather unrealistic to think, given all these actual costs that must be considered yet are often overlooked, that handloaded rounds closely approach the .22 long rifle ammo in cost when it's the budget plinker stuff.

If Bob's Closeout Primers gave you 1000 primers for a mere one cent apiece but you can't find anything remotely approaching that cost today (and you can't) their value is not one cent, but rather their current replacement cost. I haven't seen where this is much lower than two cents per primer recently, and closer to three cents each is more like it.

25 ACP reloaded cheaper than 22 long rifle plinkers? Not too likely unless you got everything for nearly free.

And, of course, if you're figuring your time is worth absolutely nothing, which most guys figure as a matter of course, and which is also not correct. Time is money.

[hammerhead357]

H & G used to make a mould for the 25 acp and I would think that Ballisti-cast still does. I had a 10 cavity mould from H & G. It would cast a lot of the little pills quckly but they were hell to handle for sizing and lubing. My first wife could do this chore pretty well with her smaller fingers for me it was just a pita.....

[HangFireW8]

In any cost accounting of reloading, all costs must be considered. Not just the ones that are more obvious.

This would include:

The cost of the propane...

Time is money.

Please stop posting stuff like this. My wife thinks I'm saving money and I am having fun. :groner:

Not that I cast for 25ACP...

-HF

[Clark]

Primers alone cost as much as 22LR ammo. What can a 25acp do that a 22LR can't?

The 22 rimfire is hard to hot rod handload.

A common published 25acp load is 1.8 gr Bullseye 50 gr bullet.
When I work this up to 3.2 gr Bullseye, it is still wimpy, and the
case is full.

Switching to Power Pistol, 6.0 gr kick so hard the recoil really hurts.
Even 4.0 Power Pistol, the recoil hurts.

[35remington]

I suspect Clark is troll. Ing.

[turbo1889]

I do cast and reload for the 25-ACP. My mold is home-made and was done with three different sizes of drill bits with the largest one being a 1/4" drill bit. The smallest one was an 1/8" drill bit I think, and there was one in the middle that was the next size under a 1/4" I think a 1/64" or a 1/32" less that I took a grinder to in order to reshape the tip to a TC shape.

Took a pair of cheap set of line-mans' pliers (made for guys that work on electric lines so the jaws are a leaded steel alloy) and clamped them closed and then clamped them down to my drill press table. Drilling right on the separation line, small bit first for a pilot hole to depth, then the middle bit to make the nose shape, and then the big bit to make the body band. No lube groove just tumble lube the little ********. No sprue plate, I just pore them and slice the base flat while the lead is still only semi-solid with a carpenters razor knife tool.

I only do about a hundred or so at a time and load them accordingly. I'm not shooting them in a semi-auto pistol, for that I just buy factory rounds. I do have a little two shot over/under derringer style pistol chambered for the little cartridge. I got a red-dot scope mounted on top and I load them so that they are very quiet and use them to dispose of four legged trouble that people let run loose.

Wouldn't mind having a better mold to cast with in quantity and then I'd cast and handload them for the auto pistols as well. But I would want a TC shaped boolit with a flat tip. Without at least some flat on the tip that little cartridge doesn't do very well at taking care of business even with the most well placed shot. Which is why I started casting for it in the first place since I couldn't find any factory ammo that was a solid monolithic boolit with a flat tip, it was all HP and RN boolits for factory stuff which is not what you want when you’re dealing with a limited powder cartridge.

As far as .22-lr vs. 25-ACP goes, the 25-ACP does have a reliable feeding advantage in the little itty, bitty auto-loaders and I pretty much will reload anything that is reloadable even if I could just go get a .22-lr instead and be better off for final price per round. Plus with handloading you can tailor a load to exactly what you want it to do like those loads I worked up for my 8" barrel that are almost silent but still put the little pills out of the end of the barrel at just under the speed of sound with nail driving accuracy at pest disposal distances. Took a while to figure out exactly which powder and how much would do that but I figured it out. No guarantee I could find a factory made .22-lr round that would do the same if I did and then they decided to discontinue its production I would be SOL with handloading I’ve at least got a fighting chance of finding a similar load that does the same if they discontinue one of my components.

[HangFireW8]

I suspect Clark is troll. Ing.

Clark is what he is, an unapologetic overloader and experimenter in a sea of careful loadbook followers.

He has overloaded every major handgun design and knows their every limitation, as well as the primer, cartridge brass and the shooter as well.

You may think he's nuts, and maybe he is, but if I ever think "I wonder if I could go a little bit further with this load", he's the first one I consult.

-HF

[Depreacher]

I have a Bernardelli Baby made in 1947. Sometimes, it will shoot 50 rounds straight before something breaks. Still, I love the little rascal. In Arkansas a handgun needs a 4" barrel (no rimfire) to be legal for deer. NO KIDDING, with a 4" bbl. the Bernardelli would be legal in most sections of AR as long as I don't use FMJ. Weird laws for Coyote hunting also. No caliber larger than .30. OK, so my neighbor can use his .300 Weatherby, but I can't use my sweet 'ol 1982 Win. in .32-20!!!! We actually pay these people to make these regulations. SO, give me a good Whitetail load for a .25 auto, cheap source of a 4"bbl., and I promise to make a brain shot @100 yds. :-P

[35remington]

The way 'ol Clark presents his info is designed to draw comment.....and he does troll.

Not the practice of a guy who is truly above reproach in his actions. Some of his comments that you think learned are designed to bait and draw a reaction.

He could do a much more responsible way of presenting his information.

This isn't to his credit.

[noylj]

I think that reloading is always a good idea, except for this idea.
1) is there a gun chambered in .25ACP worth reloading for?
2) do you really enjoy shooting it more than a nice .22LR?
3) Your lead supply will last a LONG time
4) don't weigh the powder, just insert a stick of IMR 4895 (sort of like the Brits used to).
5) Try to work up to a power factor of 35

[Clark]

~ 30 posts ago I was being encouraged to post with my style of engineering, not consumerism.

Now I am being pushed out of here:-(

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=42714&page=3&#58

[Catshooter]

Clark,

You should know by now to just ignore that type of post.

I've followed your posts all the back from the High Road and there's always someone who just can't stand the thought of loading out side of the box, you know that.

What matters here is management. If the site owners don't want you to post, they'll tell you I'm sure.

If one can read your posts for what they really are, i.e. a presentation of information, results & conclusions then one can learn alot from them. I (and I know lots of others) have.

Besides, don't the rules of life state that there always has to be someone that says it can't/shouldn't be done? :)


Cat

[Clark]

Thank's Cat, I slipped off my adult role and needed help.
I'm ok now.

This is a stressful time to empty freezers and get ready to fill them.
The range is crowded.

[lwknight]

I'm going to try out that 6 grains of power pistol in my 25 acp.
Right after I modify my nail gun to inject it and stuff the bullet before it gets back out.

[HangFireW8]

This is a stressful time to empty freezers and get ready to fill them.
The range is crowded.

You aren't kidding! I stopped by today to test some 45 cast loads, and my usual 2-300% brass recovery rate was more like 1000%!

-HF

[Hamish]

Bump to bring a great thread back. And yes, I reload for 3 diff. .25 acp pocket pistols, even bought a RD Lee mould!

[1Shirt]

Ya know, to each his own, but I would about rather drop a ten pound ingot on my bare foot as to load another 25ACP. Had a guy years ago want me to load him a couple of hundred of them for him. Said I would if he would buy the dies for me. He did, and I loaded them for him, gave them to him along with the dies, and a promise to myself that I would not ever load another round of the thing. I lost some skin on finger tips in sizing the little cases. Even drew blood on one. I was younger and hopefully dumber at that point in my life, or at least I think I was.

On the other hand, I cast and shoot for hornets, and there are a lot of folks who probably feel about the same way about them.
1Shirt!

[evan price]

Aw, ****, I need a cast 25 mold now.

Clark, you keep being you. From reading your posts have led me further to experiment with 32 S&W Long than any loadbook ever did, and I came up with some SANE but hot 32 Long loads.

[turbo1889]

The 25-ACP is by no means the most interesting tiny cartridge out there to load for. There is a propitiatory/wild-cat cartridge floating around out there that consists of a slightly smaller diameter case then the 25-ACP that is basically a non-rimmed center fire version of a 22-lr case that is necked down to take a 5mm boolit. There is also another one out there that is basically a center fire version of the 17-Mark II and uses and even smaller 17-cal boolit but it is actually easier to load for since it doesn't use an odd size 5mm bullet although it is a PITA to get the powder through the little tiny neck.

Although I do load and cast for the 25-ACP I much prefer the 32-ACP although I wish neither were semi-rimmed cartridges and were true rim-less. Anyone that has experienced a phenomenon known as "rim-lock" in the magazine of there little semi-auto knows exactly what I'm talking about. I've often though a neat little wild-cat cartridge could be made by trimming down 30-carbine brass to a shorter length and capping them off with heavier weight 0.312" diameter bullets like used in the 32-H&R mag (as apposed to the lighter weight 0.311" diameter bullets used in 32-ACP) and then converting a 9mm NATO single stack ultra-compact pocket pistol to use them in a double stack arrangement in the existing mag with the loaded cartridge overall length set to match that of the 9mm NATO cartridge. Less recoil more magazine capacity and an over-all easier controlled and more pleasant to shoot weapon that packs more punch then a 32-ACP and won't rim-lock on you. Yes, I know the 380-ACP cartridge pretty much fits that description as well but there is a penetration and hydro-shock advantage to a smaller boolit moving faster and both the 32-ACP and 380-ACP can have inadequate penetration problems in all but the best loading combinations.

[Haggway]

Guess I am going to have to get stuff to load for the 25acp now. not worried about mouse loads either just have to exit the barrel.
http://s1142.photobucket.com/albums/n610/haggway/?action=view&current=IMG_6412.jpg

[0verkill]

Have you looked into the 32 NAA? Since you planned on using a 9mm Parabellum, how about having a barrel made for it's daddy, the 30 Luger?


The 25-ACP is by no means the most interesting tiny cartridge out there to load for. There is a propitiatory/wild-cat cartridge floating around out there that consists of a slightly smaller diameter case then the 25-ACP that is basically a non-rimmed center fire version of a 22-lr case that is necked down to take a 5mm boolit. There is also another one out there that is basically a center fire version of the 17-Mark II and uses and even smaller 17-cal boolit but it is actually easier to load for since it doesn't use an odd size 5mm bullet although it is a PITA to get the powder through the little tiny neck.

Although I do load and cast for the 25-ACP I much prefer the 32-ACP although I wish neither were semi-rimmed cartridges and were true rim-less. Anyone that has experienced a phenomenon known as "rim-lock" in the magazine of there little semi-auto knows exactly what I'm talking about. I've often though a neat little wild-cat cartridge could be made by trimming down 30-carbine brass to a shorter length and capping them off with heavier weight 0.312" diameter bullets like used in the 32-H&R mag (as apposed to the lighter weight 0.311" diameter bullets used in 32-ACP) and then converting a 9mm NATO single stack ultra-compact pocket pistol to use them in a double stack arrangement in the existing mag with the loaded cartridge overall length set to match that of the 9mm NATO cartridge. Less recoil more magazine capacity and an over-all easier controlled and more pleasant to shoot weapon that packs more punch then a 32-ACP and won't rim-lock on you. Yes, I know the 380-ACP cartridge pretty much fits that description as well but there is a penetration and hydro-shock advantage to a smaller boolit moving faster and both the 32-ACP and 380-ACP can have inadequate penetration problems in all but the best loading combinations.