Casting with hardball

[the_buckshot_kid]

Hello from upstate NY..... I'm getting into casting for my Ruger SBH .44mag which I slugged and came up with .431 cyl throats, .4305 bore and .430muzzle. Rather than try to figure out a mixture, I thought I'd use RotoMetals hardball. They say it's a 16bhn. Now, I'm going to be using Lyman's 429421 mold and try and duplicate Elmer Keith's load with Alliant 2400. My questions are.... will a bullet with a 16bhn be good for hunting applications? How fast will I be able to run this bullet without leading? Would I need to use gas checks? What size mold should I be ordering? Thanks!

[lightload]

Let me start off and say that your bullet hardness is good. Leading is dependent on several factors, and bullet hardness is not always one. Your chosen mold does not accept gas checks. With .44 mag brass using a 429421 boolit and 2400 powder, start off with 18 grains to see how things work. The cast slug will need sizing and lube. Try sizing to .432.

Welcome to the forum.

Ok guys, help out the new member.

[Bzcraig]

Hardball isn't necessary for your application, 50/50 ww/pure would be fine. However, you need to size to your throats. Welcome aboard!

[RogerDat]

One doesn't always "need" to size but it does make a significant difference in accuracy. All bullets the same size really helps. Lee makes inexpensive sizers, and NOE also has a wide range of push through sizers. I would try tumble lube because it is fast and easy, if you have leading you might look into powder coating. Really works well in my 357 magnum and good in kids 44 magnum but those are mild loads not hunting. More like a 44 special.

[white eagle]

not sure you need to go that hard
ol Elmer used an alloy of 16-1 lead tin among others for
44 magnum hunting loads I believe that alloy was around 11-12 bhn
gas checks make it easier and hard alloy does not guarantee your load will not lead
it may make it worse
try and size to your throats and work up a accurate load use a good lube
and you should be on your way

[quilbilly]

not sure you need to go that hard
ol Elmer used an alloy of 16-1 lead tin among others for
44 magnum hunting loads I believe that alloy was around 11-12 bhn
gas checks make it easier and hard alloy does not guarantee your load will not lead
it may make it worse
try and size to your throats and work up a accurate load use a good lube
and you should be on your way
What he said!

[pjames32]

I used to cast for my 44 mg with linotype! That said, after I learned to size to the gun I now cast with 50-50 Clip on wheel weights and softlead and have no leading. I'm using the same mold and 2400. Welcome aboard.

[RogerDat]

I seem to recall a member did some stuff on expansion with softer lead, also ability of slug to remain intact and not fragment giving up a lot of energy is dependent on not being so hard it breaks on impact with bone.

[rockrat]

I have shot many 1000's of the 429421 thru my SBH using plain old WW's (70's composition) without any leading. Loaded from 44spl level to hot 44 mag loads. Minimum dia. at .431" but the .432" sounds better.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

you mean he should size his throats to .432? is that big of a difference considered nomal? when he said what his gun measured at, I thought," well that's about perfect, pretty lucky" please explain the ideal fit or measurements between the throats and the barrel groove dia.

[Bookworm]

Same thing I thought.

.431 cylinder throats, .4305 @ breech and .430 @ muzzle ? Size 'em to .431 and shoot !

Am I misunderstanding something ?

[kungfustyle]

I have a SBH and shoot the same bullet and almost same bn. I get two inch groups at 50 yards, more from me than the gun. I've used 4227 and H110 behind that bullet 2400 should work just fine. I get 1180 fps from my loads and zero leading. We might be a bit too hard on the lead, but at 50 yards I wouldn't hesitate on a shot. You have a thing of beauty with the throats sized at .431 and the bore at .430. You may not have to even size, but pan lube and load them up if they drop from the mold at .431 or so. If you get the lee's sizing die measure the bullets I've had to polish out my Lee sizers.

[Jack Stanley]

Welcome to the forum Kid .

Jack

[fredj338]

Agree with above, you don't need a hard alloy up to 1300fps or so. I run range scrap, about 12bhn, to 1300fps with no leading. My RBHBH is also 0.431" cyl throats & 0.430" bore. Still need to try my coated, just been too busy for a range test day.

[the_buckshot_kid]

Ok so the general consensus is that a 16bhn is a bit hard. Being that the cyl measures .431 should I get a mold that measures .432 and then size the bulletin down?

[Oklahoma Rebel]

I must have been asleep earlier, Lightload I thought you meant to have his throats sized to 432, I just realized that you were talking about sizing the boolit to 432, I agree!

[mdi]

I too have cast and loaded for 5, .44 Magnums mostly with wheel weights. If your cylinder throats measure .431" it won't do any good to size your bullets any larger as they will leave the cylinder at .431". Each of my revolvers get sized to the same diameter as the throats, while are larger than groove diameters. I agree with the other members that 15/16 BHN is harder than necessary and I used alloy from 10/11 to 14/15 BHN for all loads including my Magnum loads. In my experience bullet fit is much more important than bullet hardness and I've even gotten some clean shooting bullets of 9/10 BHN.

I'm just thinking about "hardball". I believe that that term for cast bullets makes as much sense as "hard cast" (when I started casting cast bullets, of any hardness, they were called "cast", and soft swaged bullets were called "swaged". Seems like commercial bullet casters have added two new terms to our casting vocabulary. And what's the industry standard for "hard cast"? 16 BHN? 18 BHN? And what exactly is considered "hardball"?...).

[Grmps]

What the heck is wrong with us guys thinking everything has to be harder, faster, bigger, stronger or more potent to be better. Look at what the legends of casting/reloading say about hardness. Bullets shouldn’t be brittle, they need to be soft enough to obturate “block up (the barrel); obstruct (gasses from blowing past the bullet).” 357 MAGNUM shoots great @ 7-8 BHN.
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_7_Leading.htm

[DHDeal]

I too think a "hardball" or "hardcast" alloy can be too much of a good thing. I've got boxes of hardcast bullets (it says so on the box��) and the only thing I do is mix it 50/50 with pure.

[blackthorn]

Hmmm---Now I am confused. I always thought "Hardball" referred to commercial full metal jacket bullets and "Hard-cast" referred to commercial cast bullets made hard for shipping damage control.

[David2011]

I'm just thinking about "hardball". I believe that that term for cast bullets makes as much sense as "hard cast" (when I started casting cast bullets, of any hardness was called "cast", and soft swaged bullets were called "swaged". Seems like commercial bullet casters have added two new terms to our casting vocabulary. And what's the industry standard for "hard cast"? 16 BHN? 18 BHN? And what exactly is considered "hardball"?...).

I think most foundry hardball alloy is 92% lead, 6% antimony and 2% tin. I understand that the basis for this blend is more for durability for shipping as is the hard wax lube found in commercial boolits over shootability considerations. I'm sure there are other answers. The Lead Alloy Calculator on this site lists that same blend ratio and says the BHN is 16.

Description Tin % Antimony % Arsenic % Copper % Silver % Lead % Hardness
Hardball Alloy 2.00% 6.00% 0% 0% 0% 92.0% Brinell 16


I have cast straight lino for .44 Mag and it shot well. It went diagonally though a 225 or so pound sow without shattering, unlike common knowledge said it would but it did not expand. Entry and exit holes looked the same to me. More recently I have been gravitating to softer and softer alloys.

[BAGTIC]

A bullet that expands and stays in the target yields exactly the same amount of energy as one that fragments and stays in the target. It is not the 'energy' that does the killing.

[mdi]

I believe "hard cast" and "hard ball" are just "sales terms". New lead bullet shooters seem to think "harder is better" so to increase sales, commercial casters give them what they want. They just call their already too hard bullets (shipping hardness, not shooting hardness) "hard cast" and a new lead shooter thinks he got the right stuff. Same with "hard ball". I don't think there is a specific hardness that determines "hard cast" or "hard ball" nor a standard. New lead shooters mistakenly use the terms and soon they became common especially on forums...

[fredj338]

Ok so the general consensus is that a 16bhn is a bit hard. Being that the cyl measures .431 should I get a mold that measures .432 and then size the bulletin down?
Your bullet final diameter will be determined by alloy casting temp. Bigger is usually better. So if having a custom mold made, I would probably go 0.432", based on clip ww alloy.