Help with gas smelter burner

[mtnman31]

Gents,
I had a co-worker give me a natural gas water heater today after he upgraded to a new tankless heater. I plan on using the burner from the tank to heat my smelter. I know that a water heater burner puts out a lot more BTUs than a turkey fryer or BBQ burner.

Are there any mods or changes I need to make to the gas valve/control box before I put it to use? The heater has a thermometer probe that goes from the control box into the side of the tank. Do I still need this thermometer? I don't imagine I do, I just want to make sure there is not some sort of interlock that would prevent the controls from working without the thermometer.

Before I cut the heater apart - would a hot water tank make a decent smelting pot? The tank is not rusted at all and I really like the design of the boiler area. It is concave and designed to hold the heat on to the bottom of the tank.

Lastly, the outlet for my gas is about 30 feet from where I can safely smelt. What kind of hose should I use to get gas from the valve to smelting area? I know whatever I use will not meet any building codes.:twisted: As long as I don't blow my place up I am happy. Any tips on how to safely get the gas where I need it as inexpensively as possible.

I am set on making this work because the house I rent has utilites included in the rent and I plan on getting some free smelting done while I live here. Free natural gas is always cheaper than having to fill propane tanks.[smilie=1:

[Morgan Astorbilt]

The thermocouple is used to keep the gas burner from opening if the pilot light is out. It sits over the pilot light, and if the pilot light goes out, the main gas valve won't open. You can replace the entire thermostatic valve assembly with a simple mechanical valve. You'd want to anyway, because these valves don't throttle, They're either full open or closed. There is usually, a shutoff valve right before the gas orfice, but it will be a simple "L" handled gas cock, not good for adjusting the flame. Some sort of needle valve is better.
The tank itself, is probably glass lined, and wouldn't take the heat generated in lead smelting.

Just salvage the cast iron burner, add a valve and support frame, and purchase a cast iron dutch oven to complete the setup. The hose you want is called LP gas hose, and is available from a bottled gas distributer.
Morgan

[Calamity Jake]

I use a WH burner mounted under a steel 5 gal bucket that has the bottom removed, I made 4 inch tall legs to mount to the bottom to hold it off of the ground and give it some stabillity, then mounted the burner to one of the legs. I used standard compression fittings, a small gas control valve and auto shop quick disconnect air hose fittings to attach the gas supply.
I render WW outside about 60 feet from my gas supply which has a shutoff valve and quick disconnect fitting also, just use standard air hose for supply line.

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Jake, Not to disagree, but over time, LP gas will deteriorate some air hose inner rubber. Don't know if natural gas will do the same. Nylon, or other plastic, the kind used in coil-type retractable air lines will probably be OK, but are easily melted. I'd stick with certified LP line.
Morgan

[Three44s]

I use a section of well casing with a hole cut at the bottom on one side (welded to a base such as an old sprocket) that I neck down to fit my largest lead pot (to reclaim WW's).

My "burner" consists of a propane weed burner torch

Three 44s

[HeavyMetal]

Think I'd tee off from your closest gas outlet, probably your dryer? and run soild line to the smelting area and then use as short a flexable hose as I could get away with.

That way you wouldn't have any surprises with your supply line. Food for thought: if your gas meter is any where near the smelting area is the meter reader will rat you out to the city ASAP! Hide as much as you can and the rest you can claim as a permanent Bar b que supply line.

[MT Gianni]

The thermostat probe has an ecu [energy cut off] that opens at 200 degrees to prevent a steam explosion. It does not reclose but is a one time use. I would not use the control though the pilot can be a nice feature. Most burners are 30,000 btu hr -44,000 btu hr. One of the efficiency laws passed in 96 or 98 made manufactures cut back on btu's, increase run time increasing efficiency. Cut the tube back before it 90's to the burner, put a compression fitting to pipe thread on it. Install a valve and no more than 10 feet of lp gas hose you can get from an lp dealer. Run 1/2" black pipe from your meter outlet. Galvanized will flake off, plug an orifice and warn metermen that this was not inspected. So will a hose.
Many turkey fryers do have a bigger burner than a W.H. nowdays but this is free and gives you a plan. Restricting your pipe size will result in up to a 30% pressure drop and could cause burning in the burner venturi rather than above the burner where you want it. Aluminum burners can melt so do not let the flames impinge on your smelting pot and you will be fine.

[MT Gianni]

Jake, Not to disagree, but over time, LP gas will deteriorate some air hose inner rubber. Don't know if natural gas will do the same. Nylon, or other plastic, the kind used in coil-type retractable air lines will probably be OK, but are easily melted. I'd stick with certified LP line.
Morgan

If I see an air line off of a Nat. Gas meter I am to lock the meter, notifiy local inspection authorities if in their juristiction. If outside city juristiction areas a pressure test of the system and certification by a lisenced plumber would be the minimum. This is true for the 2 utilities I have worked for. Gianni

[mtnman31]

Since I rent, the plan is to use a non-permanent hose. The garage has a hot water heater in it with a gas line. I don't use this heater at all and plan on running the hose from the heater's supply valve out the window, to an open area on the concrete where I can smelt. I definitely do not want to run any pipes or hard lines. At most, a few fittings and some flexible tubing is all I am willing to buy. As I said before, I DO want to keep this safe and inexpensive. Thanks for the ideas.

[Calamity Jake]

Jake, Not to disagree, but over time, LP gas will deteriorate some air hose inner rubber. Don't know if natural gas will do the same. Nylon, or other plastic, the kind used in coil-type retractable air lines will probably be OK, but are easily melted. I'd stick with certified LP line.
Morgan

Been rendering WW with this setup for about 20 years with the same hose which is also used with my air compresser.

My gas supply starts at my HW heater, the gas company replaced my meter about 1 year ago, they had to relite the HW heater, they saw the quick disconnect air line fitting and valve and didn't say a word.

[Bill*]

I went into the shop one morning to find the air comp cycling without any use of air. At first I paid no attention but by lunch time it had run 3 or 4 times so I looked it over--you guessed it--the quick disconnect was bleeding air. Glad it wasn't Gas. Maybe you've got good luck Jake, but I wouldn't chance it even with a S/O valve. My $0.02 Bill

I would,thou,be comfortable with an approved line leading to a quick disconnect outside of the foundation. I did that with air and installed a regulator/gauge/quick disconnect in a small breaker box mounted to the foundation. Now the neighborhood kids come here to get their pool toys filled:mrgreen:

[Calamity Jake]

Natural gas pressure delivery is less than 12 psi not the 90-120 your air compresser is putting out.

I also have a shutoff valve at the sourse so there is no gas pressure on the quick disconnect fitting when not in use plus I used the best fitting I could find.

My setup is used about once a year maybe twice, every time it is hooked up I check for leaks with soapy water.

I may be dumb, but I'm not stupid

No flames intended.

[RP]

Well I have done alot of things that by all rights should have killed me. I think you can get a NG flex line somewhere I got a kit from lowes which is a 20ft hose and gas approved connectors it did not cost that much and from what your saying two kits would be the ticket. PS you can also check for leaks with a lighter if you want some real fun.

[MT Gianni]

Well I have done alot of things that by all rights should have killed me. I think you can get a NG flex line somewhere I got a kit from lowes which is a 20ft hose and gas approved connectors it did not cost that much and from what your saying two kits would be the ticket. PS you can also check for leaks with a lighter if you want some real fun.

I've got some fun stories about checking for leaks with a lighter. If you want to see 20 tough guys hit the door all at once start up the lighter when you find a leak. Gianni

[DLCTEX]

My gas grill has been running on an air hose for years. Of course there is a valve before the quick connect that is always closed unless the grill is in use. I do live in the country and there are no inspectors. I will be converting it back to the small tank as I have gone all electric. The state has decided that if I let my propane tank run dry then the system has to be pressure tested by a licensed plumber. They make it a two man job and its $175 for the test, even if it was tested a month before. Also the price of propane has followed the other fuels, not because there is any shortage of propane of course. DALE

[smokemjoe]

Dale: Cant you tap into a well head and get free gas .Or burn drip. Joe

[Sprue]

I don't see an issue with any "worthy" (key word) hose, even a garden hose as long as it doesn't leak.

Years ago when Dad bought some acreage, all that he ever used was a garden hose (a very long one at that) to clear off and to burn out tree stumps. He had free gas too BTW. But he burnt stumps all summer long for a couple summers, actually longer than that. But the property eventually became stump free.

As for my setup I use (whats available) the air compressor hose with a quick disconnect on one end, with the other end threaded into a tee feeding the garage heater. Ya just gotta check for leaks with soapy water in a spray bottle. Leaks are: not- good.

I just spent this past weekend making muffins outta all my WW's. I probably rendered nearly 4 gals of clips alone with my humble setup. The setup could have been made MORE efficient but the, means, were not on hand.

The outside temps were hovering around a very humid 91 degrees. But hey, its done and I wanted rid of all my WW's.

I think the little lady may have made just about as many pitchers of - Ice Tea :-D

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh266/spilihp_2007/Smelting/Frontburnerview.jpg

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh266/spilihp_2007/Smelting/DSCF0633_2.jpg

[Morgan Astorbilt]

In case of an accident where, Lord forbid, someone was hurt or property was damaged, I can just see having to explain to the authorities why I didn't spend the extra few buck to purchase a National Fire Code approved LP hose. Anything will work, until things go wrong.
Morgan

[RP]

I hope you did not drink that soft drink while you were smelting the lead you know that could be worse than the hose.