Ruger old army cap and ball.

[44man]

I played with it today with Pyrocrap, 777 and Swiss FFFG. I was having trouble getting it sighted because I had the Bushnell red dot off. I found rust under the rings but it wiped off with a rag. For some reason it would not follow adjustments. With Swiss and a clean gun I had 10 shots in one ragged hole at 25 yd's even with scope adjustments. Adding a few more would make it jump way right so I gave up and just chronographed loads.
Pyrocrap was the worst with an SD of 35.6, an extreme spread of 92.6, velocity of 1034.3 with 45 grs. by volume. Groups were bad. 777 was much better with an SD of 26.1, ES of 68, velocity of 1029.6 but very good groups. Swiss had an SD 3.8, ES of 10.4, velocity of 1093.9 but groups were not as tight as 777. I did not clean the gun and it was getting dirty.
I then shot a pile of balls with Swiss until the gun was very dirty. The only problem was the balls were getting hard to seat. This raised the pull and increased the velocity as high as 1258 fps.
I think to keep consistancy, the chambers must be wiped with a damp patch between loadings. I will try that next.
I shot over 100 times and the gun never tied up or got hard to function.
I moved the red dot back, put the extension on and put the rings away from the inner tube and glass to see if it will follow adjustments. I think I was restricting the movement of the adjustments. Now to try sighting it in again.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
Does pyrocrap mean pyrodex?
I never went above 30 grs of fffg in my ruger. Guess I should have tried before I sold it.

[44man]

Yes, that is my favorite word for Pyrodex. I gave up on it in the cap and ball when I was missing deer at 20 yd's with it. I found by experimenting that it was changing velocity and burn rate so bad with weather changes that I never knew where it would hit. One day it would be dead on and a few days later it would hit 10" or more low.
I never had a problem with RS in my rifle and won a lot of shoots and killed a pile of deer with it. It just is no good in the cap and ball. (Pyrocrap "P".)
I was happy with the 777 but it needs further testing under different conditions. What I don't like is the additional $10 that 777 costs over a can of Swiss. I don't understand why they charge $25 a pound for the stuff.
Right now I am convinced that the cap and ball has to be treated like a rifle or BPCR in that the chambers have to be wiped with a slightly damp patch between loadings to maintain consistancy. After all, no shooter ever shoots his BPCR at silhouette without using a patch or blow tube between shots. Same for the muzzle loading rifle where the bore is wiped once between loadings. Even the inlines get cruddy with the substitute powders and get hard to load.
For some reason, this step has been overlooked in the revolvers. Once the chambers foul it takes a lot of force to seat a ball, enough so that the loading lever can be damaged. I remove my cylinder and use a home made seater and I really have to lean on it. What this does to a ball and it's diameter can only be guessed at.
It will take a pile of patches but since the gun is shot from clean chambers when hunting, this should be duplicated when sighting in. For plinking and can shooting it is not necessary until the force needed to seat a ball becomes too much for the loading lever.

[StarMetal]

44man

I like that 777 in my Ruger. It makes it damn near a magnum. You saw how clean my gun was after my shooting it in the photos I posted, well get this. The bullets were lubed with just Javelina 50/50 Alox/Beeswax and nothing at all put over the cylinder mouths!!!! I'm not having the hard loading that you are talking about after a bunch of shots, never did really.

Joe

[PatMarlin]

Well It would be my estimation BP powders- the real and the fake... all behave differently in different firearms just a smoke less powders do.

One shoe definitely doesn't fit all, but it would be nice of there were more shoes available, specially in Kalifornia.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
The Ruger OA is build on the super BH frame if I remember right. I womder if anyone in the group has ever shot it w/ smokless poder? The way some have talked about it, they may have tried it.

[XPNut]

Hi all just wanted to share a pic of my Ruger OldArmy H-777 it's all I shoot. BTW..this OA is over 25 years old I found it just sitting in a local gun shop!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v67/thepbjs/97b3f0e7.jpg

[PatMarlin]

Nice.. :wink:

I just bought a Blackhawk that old.

[44man]

Star, yeah, I do like how 777 shoots. It is almost as fast as the Swiss. I am going to play with it more. I get an average 60 fps more with Swiss and clean chambers but with some fouling this goes up to 228 fps. This can cause a lot of POI problems. Another plus for the 777. I just hate the cost per shot, since the volume used can empty a can quick. It is much cheaper to shoot a .44 mag. This gets worse because once I start shooting it, I don't quit until I run out of something.
I have a lot of boolits for it but like the round ball for hunting. One reason the ball gets tighter in mine is that I chamfered the ends of the chambers so none of the ball is cut when seating, the whole ball is forced in. They fit much tighter then a boolit. Fouling from black or Pyrocrap makes them get tighter.

[Junior1942]

>is that I chamfered the ends of the chambers so none of the ball is cut when seating

How did you do that?

[44man]

You can use a countersink and just cut the sharp edge from the end of the throat. Make sure you get all chambers even. Be careful because all you want to do is break the sharp edge off like you would do when deburring a brass case.

[felix]

Why not use a ball bearing with grits as a grinder? Measure the distance with a mic from the center of the ball to the back end of the cylinder? If really paranoid, use 6 seperate new balls, one for each exit, measuring before and after. ... felix

[XPNut]

I want to try some bullets in mine been looking at the new LEE .452-160-RF #90570 Has anyone tried a .452 bullet or do you like the .456 LEE conical bullet..? Seems it would shoot better with the .452 since the bore is .450

[silverbuzzard]

I just put a old army on laya wa y at Cabelas
Was NIB for 399.00
They had the same exact gun in the same case for 699.00 so I jumped on this one.
I am puzzled as to what I got . It is blued ,7.5 inch barrel standard gun BUT has gold inlays on cylinder [ Army emblems I think] and U.S. letters stamped in the grips[ wood]
Question: What did I get? Have not seen another on the net

[DLCTEX]

I have used both .452 and .454 boolits in my ROA. Get them started straight to lessen chance of boolit jump under recoil.

[Willbird]

MY Old Army was a Christmas present from Ma and Dad when I was 14 years old :-). The first 20 years I had it I never had a round ball mold for it, I used the Lee conical made just for the Old Army. I lubed them in a lubesizer and did not apply any grease to the chambers. I used as much fffg and ffffg Goex as I could get in and still seat the bullet.

I used to shoot with a family friend before I got my drivers license and we would fill beer cans with water and set them on an old foundation wall about 50 yards from his back porch, he always got mad because I got more with the Old Army than he could get with his 4" security six :-).

The Lee conical made for the Old Army has a smaller rear band to let you get them started straight.

Bill

[Nobade]

HI,
The Ruger OA is build on the super BH frame if I remember right. I womder if anyone in the group has ever shot it w/ smokless poder? The way some have talked about it, they may have tried it.

I have tried this using Trailboss. It didn't hurt anything, but percussion caps don't set off smokeless powder properly. Every shot was a hangfire, about like firing a poorly tuned flintlock. I wouldn't do it again, nor recommend anyone else try it.

[jhrosier]

44man,
Pyrodex is sensitive to the amount of compression that you apply when seating the ball.
It is also much harder to ignite than real BP or 777.
It just has too much working against it for good accuracy in a C&B revolver.

Jack

[44man]

44man,
Pyrodex is sensitive to the amount of compression that you apply when seating the ball.
It is also much harder to ignite than real BP or 777.
It just has too much working against it for good accuracy in a C&B revolver.

Jack
I never noticed a difference in ignition, all fired right off. I do compress it and you can even fill a chamber full and still seat a ball. I avoid that though because it can shoot plugs of Pyrocrap out to burn in the grass.
The test I did after shooting at and missing deer was to shoot a bunch one day at a steel plate, then do it again with a change in temperature. One day I would keep them all in the plate and the next time miss it entirely.
We also tried it in the 45-70 BPCR for a while until we seen flares coming out to burn in the grass. That's is a huge loss of powder that should burn behind the boolit. It seems that even though it lights right off, flame does not propagate through the powder mass and just shoots it out of the barrel. Outside temperature really effects the stuff too.

[Lloyd Smale]

best luck ive had with the two i played with has been with real black. Ive allways got better accuracy using it. What i used to do is take a bottle of windex with me to the range. It works great for quick clean ups between strings of shots. As to the fake blacks ive had the best luck with Goex pinacle 3f

[Willbird]

I have always hated pyrocrap myself. Part of the problem I think is they ADDED crap to make it smoke, that crap they added is corrosive and hygroscopic. At least with 777 they did not try to make the powder smoke like BP, I'm convinced that the smoke from 777 is an honest byproduct not some hollywood special effects like pyrocrap.

Oh yea, they way to buy 777 is when the big box stores do clearance after hunting season, it is only $10 an lb then.

Bill