My Pot died. Which new one to get?

[C. Latch]

I don't cast much in the summetime (too hot) but I got a new mold the other day, a Lee 457-340, to size down and use in my .45 colt, just for fun.

I fired up the pot monday afternoon. Right from the start I had a hard time casting, but it slowly warmed enough that I cast about 15 good bullets....then began to cool off.

It's dead now. Lyman Big Dipper. I think it's five years old. I was expecting longer life from it, but this isn't terrible, I guess.

So I get on Amazon and see that the Lyman pot, by itself, is about 40 bucks, but some of the Lee pots are more expensive (which is out of character for Lee).

Are they worth the difference? For an electric pot, is there a better value out there than the $40 Lyman Big Dipper pot?

I strictly ladle pour and have no intention of changing that, if that matters.

[TexasGrunt]

Waage. I've never used one but search here on the forum for more info. Supposed to be the best.

[NavyVet1959]

Are you sure you're comparing similar sizes? Isn't the Lyman pot a 10 lb pot? The Lee Magnum Melter is $54.99 over on Midway right now and is a 20 lb pot.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Since you admit to being a ladle pour caster I am probably wasting my breath about getting an RCBS pot. I have an Lyman 20 lb. dipper only pot I got several years back, I only use it to smelt small pewter pieces in it.Robert

[dverna]

I have had good performance from the Lyman 20 lb furnace.

[Hickok]

Are you sure you're comparing similar sizes? Isn't the Lyman pot a 10 lb pot? The Lee Magnum Melter is $54.99 over on Midway right now and is a 20 lb pot. +1. I have the Lee Magnum Melter and it is a good deal for the money. I ladle pour all my boolits.

[NavyVet1959]

On a side note...

The 700W heating element on the Lee 20 lb electrical pots works out to be 2388.5 BTUs and the 500W that they use on the 10 lb pots works out to be 1706 BTUs.

If a person was wanting to create a casting pot that they could still use when electrical power was not available, it would be possible to create one with a small natural gas or propane burner. A typical bunsen burner will give you around 800-1200 BTUs with natural gas and the ones for LP will give around 2000-3200 BTUs. Of if you wanted even more BTUs, one of the small backpacking camping burners would work.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/New-Ultralight-Dpower-Aluminum-Alloy-Stainless-Steel-Outdoor-Burner-Camping-Gas-Stove-Gas-Powered-Stoves-With-Piezo-Ignition-Hiking/798087450#about-item

A 20 lb LPG tank is equivalent to 216,000 BTUs.

So, a 20 lb LPG tank should last around 67.5 to 108 hours with a bunsen burner.

Current exchange price on 20 lb LPG tanks is $16 at Home Depot, so you would be looking at around $0.15 to $0.24 per hour to run it.

That's probably a bit more expensive per hour than electricity, but those 20 lb LPG tank exchanges are not the most economical way of getting LPG anyway.

[rundownbear]

you can probably get a replacement heating element on line. There are a couple companies that make them.

[NavyVet1959]

you can probably get a replacement heating element on line. There are a couple companies that make them.

Good point... If you look inside these pots, they really are pretty simply constructed. The thermostat is basically a piece of metal that when it heats up, it quits touching another piece of metal, thus breaking electrical contact and cutting off the power to the coil. First thing I would do is to wire around the thermostat to ensure that the problem was in the coil and not in the thermostat.

[Iowa Fox]

In my opinion the Lee pots are the best value for the money. Plus they trust us enough out here to sell us parts for them if needed. I have Lee pots and a Lyman Mag 20. Lyman will not sell infinitesimal parts for the pot and I was told they quit supporting it. I would never buy another Lyman, just to many other better choices out there these days. Lyman was at one time the pioneer and leader of casting, ever wonder why they are not a sponsor here?

[gwpercle]

Get the Lee Magnum Melter , they hold an honest 15 pounds with room to stir, heat up is fast . I got one and it beats a 10 pound pot seven ways to Sunday. I wish I had bought it decades ago. My wife is right...size does matter and bigger is a good thing!
Call Lyman ....5 years is way too short a life span for a melter , see if they will fix it for free and then keep it as a spare. If the replacement parts aren't avaible to fix it , go Lee and don't look back.
Gary

[jsn]

Have you spoken to Lyman? Maybe they will be nice and replace the bad part without you having to send the pot to them.

Sounds like the heating element.

[Grmps]

Call Lyman and let us know what they said/did. I'm curious if they are going to try to improve there customer service and warranty to get back in the market where their competitors are. Many of us have had bad experiences with Lyman over the last few years. Now that we can get better equipment with better warranties (often for less money) from many companies --- Ideal/Lyman is a name from the past.

[NavyVet1959]

Here's a photo of the thermostat on the Lee melting pot. I suspect that the one on the Lyman is just as simple.

http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/lee-melting-pot-thermostat.jpg

I don't feel like disassembling my melting pot to verify this, so I'll just go by a photo of the Lee thermostat that I got from the web and make deductions from it.

As you can see there are 4 horizontal pieces of metal and the adjustment knob goes on the top of the part.

Part "A" is just the mounting plate to provide a sturdy place to mount everything else. It would remain in the same place even when the unit heats up.
Parts "B" and "C" have some bent edges on them along their length. This is going to cause them to curl upwards or downwards when they are heated or cooled.
Part "D" has an electrical insulator on it probably to keep "B" and "C" from moving too far in one direction or the other.
The adjustment knob controls the distance between "B" and "C" thus setting the "set point" for the temperature.

I suspect that there is probably another spade terminal connector on the other side of the device.

The heating coil is going to run off of 110VAC, so there really is not much that can go wrong with a melting pot. Either the wiring has a problem, the thermostat has gone bad, or the heating element has gone bad.

[Iowa Fox]

Have you spoken to Lyman? Maybe they will be nice and replace the bad part without you having to send the pot to them.

Sounds like the heating element.

Yes I have talked to them several times. Couple weeks ago I asked about buying the wire spring on the shut off handle.

[Iowa Fox]

Call Lyman and let us know what they said/did. I'm curious if they are going to try to improve there customer service and warranty to get back in the market where their competitors are. Many of us have had bad experiences with Lyman over the last few years. Now that we can get better equipment with better warranties (often for less money) from many companies --- Ideal/Lyman is a name from the past.

I did call them. I started buying Lyman stuff in the 60's when I got back from the army. It was good stuff and I had good luck with it. I've never asked for a single warranty thing from them ever. Somewhere around 2008 I noticed their customer support was changing and not for the better. I feel sorry for the ladies answering the phone on the front line as their hands are tied, this is a decision made by some arrogant executive or board of directors. There are to many other good companies out there that appreciate our business and want it to waste any more time or money with Lyman.

[C. Latch]

Thanks for the advice, guys.

No idea what I'm going to do about a new pot, but I have options to consider, at least. In the meantime I think I'll disassemble my old pot and see if anything's obvious.

[Beagle333]

For dipping.... the Lee Magnum melter is nice. That's what I use.

[Thumbcocker]

If your pot died the DEA could be behind it.

[wills]

This is very simple. We determined the answer years ago.

Do not even THINK about anything other than a Waage.

195841
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/google.php?cx=partner-pub-6216953551359885%3A1942134700&cof=FORID%3A9&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=waage&sa.x=7&sa.y=9&siteurl=castboolits.gunloads.com%2Fshowthread.php% 3F334906-My-Pot-died-Which-new-one-to-get%26p%3D4050161%23post4050161&ref=castboolits.gunloads.com%2Fsearch.php%3Fsearch id%3D4109957&ss=2123j2066693j5

[C. Latch]

The heating coil is going to run off of 110VAC, so there really is not much that can go wrong with a melting pot. Either the wiring has a problem, the thermostat has gone bad, or the heating element has gone bad.

I took it apart, or at least took the top cover off, and, yes, the switch inside looks very much like what you posted. Switch appears to be fine and working properly.

I think my heating element is burned out.

[C. Latch]

This is very simple.

Do not even THINK about anything other than a Waage.

195841
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/google.php?cx=partner-pub-6216953551359885%3A1942134700&cof=FORID%3A9&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=waage&sa.x=7&sa.y=9&siteurl=castboolits.gunloads.com%2Fshowthread.php% 3F334906-My-Pot-died-Which-new-one-to-get%26p%3D4050161%23post4050161&ref=castboolits.gunloads.com%2Fsearch.php%3Fsearch id%3D4109957&ss=2123j2066693j5


That looks nice but I suspect that it's out of my price range.

[Hairy Dawg]

You can test the heating element by putting an ohm meter on each end.

[wills]

That looks nice but I suspect that it's out of my price range.

Mine was $120 + $14 shipping in 2005.

Well worth it. model number is K4757

[David2011]

A 20 lb LPG tank is equivalent to 216,000 BTUs.

So, a 20 lb LPG tank should last around 67.5 to 108 hours with a bunsen burner.

Current exchange price on 20 lb LPG tanks is $16 at Home Depot, so you would be looking at around $0.15 to $0.24 per hour to run it.

That's probably a bit more expensive per hour than electricity, but those 20 lb LPG tank exchanges are not the most economical way of getting LPG anyway.

Someone here figured out a few years ago how much it cost to run an electric pot. It varies with electric rates of course but was just pennies per hour in any case.

Most propane bottle exchange programs only fill the tank with 15 pounds of propane so the rate is higher than the above figures.

[NavyVet1959]

Someone here figured out a few years ago how much it cost to run an electric pot. It varies with electric rates of course but was just pennies per hour in any case.

Most propane bottle exchange programs only fill the tank with 15 pounds of propane so the rate is higher than the above figures.

The propane bottle exchange is probably one of the more expensive ways of getting propane. You're paying for the convenience. If you have natural gas service at your home, that is going to be the cheapest way to heat a pot of lead in most cases.

[HABCAN]

Yes, I know you said you don't want a bottom pour, but one of my 10-lb. LEE's has served me well over thirty years. I note that amazon.ca has the LEE replacement heating elements for sale: maybe also in the U.S.

[trapper9260]

I have a 10lbs Lee bottom and also a Lyman Big Dipper.On my lee for what the OP stated I had and same problem also on my Lee and it was the heat element I got one from Midway . easy to change and I see that it would be easy to also on the Lyman. That would be easyer to replace then to get a new if it is me.unless you want go bigger. but can still fix the one you have for a back up.That is why I have the Lyman for but also if I have 2 different alloy I want to try with some booilts like was on here some time ago with a soft point and hard body of the boolit.

[Jack Stanley]

I have a Lee drip-o-matic ( that hasn't dripped ) since I welded the bottom hole shut . It's worked since 1977 , on the other hand it hasn't had to work as much since I got a Pro-melt in the early eighties .

Is this a case where ebay might have the parts you need ?

Jack

[lightman]

Someone here figured out a few years ago how much it cost to run an electric pot. It varies with electric rates of course but was just pennies per hour in any case.

Most propane bottle exchange programs only fill the tank with 15 pounds of propane so the rate is higher than the above figures.

With the rates in Arkansas I estimate that my electric pot cost less than 8 cents an hour to run. I have several 20# propane bottles and one 100# bottle and I save the empties up until its worth the trip to the propane place. The only time I do the exchange thing is when I'm guilty of bad planning and run out.
If I were closer to the beginning of my casting career than the end, I would build a nice bottom pour smelting pot fired with natural gas. I've been all electric most of my adult life and only recently had gas run to my house, and that was for my generator.

[imashooter2]

Here's a photo of the thermostat on the Lee melting pot. I suspect that the one on the Lyman is just as simple.

http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/lee-melting-pot-thermostat.jpg

I don't feel like disassembling my melting pot to verify this, so I'll just go by a photo of the Lee thermostat that I got from the web and make deductions from it.

As you can see there are 4 horizontal pieces of metal and the adjustment knob goes on the top of the part.

Part "A" is just the mounting plate to provide a sturdy place to mount everything else. It would remain in the same place even when the unit heats up.
Parts "B" and "C" have some bent edges on them along their length. This is going to cause them to curl upwards or downwards when they are heated or cooled.
Part "D" has an electrical insulator on it probably to keep "B" and "C" from moving too far in one direction or the other.
The adjustment knob controls the distance between "B" and "C" thus setting the "set point" for the temperature.

I suspect that there is probably another spade terminal connector on the other side of the device.

The heating coil is going to run off of 110VAC, so there really is not much that can go wrong with a melting pot. Either the wiring has a problem, the thermostat has gone bad, or the heating element has gone bad.

Close. Part C is fixed. Part D is a bimetal and curls upward when heated to push on part B and break its contact with C.

You are correct in the assumption of a 2nd terminal and that the Lyman part is virtually identical.

[NavyVet1959]

Close. Part C is fixed. Part D is a bimetal and curls upward when heated to push on part B and break its contact with C.

You are correct in the assumption of a 2nd terminal and that the Lyman part is virtually identical.

Thanks... I was expecting bimetal, but when I saw the bent edges on B and C in the photo, I was thinking that maybe that caused it to expand in a curved manner similar to how a Bourdon tube expands in a pressure gauge. Given that D is bimetal, then the bent edges along B and C are just to provide stiffness in that section of the part while still allowing them to flex on the left side as they get close to the central attachment point.

So, in the above photo, B and C have the electrical connections and when D gets warm, it's going to expand and go upwards. Because of the insulator on the right side of D, it will push B up which will make B break contact with C, thus shutting down the power and allowing things to cool off. As it cools off, D will go back down which will make B also go down, until it touch C again and things start heating up again. The control knob sets the position of C in relation to A. By decreasing the distance from A to C, it means that D will have to move further in order to cause B to no longer have contact with C, thus the end result would be a higher temperature set point.

Eventually, those small metal leaves are going to corrode and they'll break. I've never had it personally happen, but I've seen photos of where it has happened.

At one time, I was wanting to try using an electric hot plate to melt some lead in a pan, but could not seem to get it hot enough. So, I disassembled the electric hot plate to see how it worked. I noticed a similar type of thermostat on it and saw how it was cutting out as it got too warm. I discovered that if I took the cover off the hot plate and moved the burner away from the thermostat or had a small muffin fan blowing on the thermostat, I could get the heating element hotter. Reminds me of what we used to do back at NASA to get the room air-conditioning to be cooler. They had the thermostats locked, so you could not change the temperatures, so we fooled the thermostat into thinking the room was warmer by placing a large floor-standing laser printer under the thermostat. Laser printers back then didn't really have much in the way of power saving modes, so even when idle, they still produced enough heat to fool the thermostat into thinking the room was too warm. :)

[wills]

The propane bottle exchange is probably one of the more expensive ways of getting propane. You're paying for the convenience. If you have natural gas service at your home, that is going to be the cheapest way to heat a pot of lead in most cases.

Having your own tank refilled is like getting every third tank free.

[TexasGrunt]

My local Tractor Supply started filling tanks.

$1.99 a gallon. Or less than $10 for a tank.

[wills]

Someone here figured out a few years ago how much it cost to run an electric pot. It varies with electric rates of course but was just pennies per hour in any case.

Most propane bottle exchange programs only fill the tank with 15 pounds of propane so the rate is higher than the above figures.

How many hours a day do you run your pot?

[Grmps]

I thought companies were required to have replacement parts for 10 years after they stop production of something. Anyone know the legalese on this?

[jem102]

This is very simple. We determined the answer years ago.

Do not even THINK about anything other than a Waage.

195841
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/google.php?cx=partner-pub-6216953551359885%3A1942134700&cof=FORID%3A9&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=waage&sa.x=7&sa.y=9&siteurl=castboolits.gunloads.com%2Fshowthread.php% 3F334906-My-Pot-died-Which-new-one-to-get%26p%3D4050161%23post4050161&ref=castboolits.gunloads.com%2Fsearch.php%3Fsearch id%3D4109957&ss=2123j2066693j5

I checked their web page and it looks like anything in the 20 LB. range is over $500.00...

[jmort]

I got my Waage a little over two years ago
Highly recommended

"We manufacture the K4757. ~#25 pounds, temperature 800 °F; 115v We maintain the price affordable for the re-loaders. The item is marketed via the re-loader blogs.

1. The K4757 melter is scheduled to be manufactured within the next 10 business days.

2. The price is $198.00 + S& H of $30.00 .

3. Payment is via visa/mc, please call with the cc number to place the order. 800-922-4365"

[Echo]

Thanks for the advice, guys.

No idea what I'm going to do about a new pot, but I have options to consider, at least. In the meantime I think I'll disassemble my old pot and see if anything's obvious.

If you have the mechanical chops to disassemble the pot, and the time to do it, seems to me the way to go. A good ohmmeter/multimeter will come in handy for checking continuity, available from Harbor Freight cheap. Or you might see where the heating element is burnt in two, in which case take a picture & send to Lyman, and see what they say.

[wills]

I thought companies were required to have replacement parts for 10 years after they stop production of something. Anyone know the legalese on this?

Automobiles, maybe.

[Walks]

Lyman supports nothing. The girls that answer the phone have NO UNDERSTANDING of reloading/casting. I bought a new H&I sizing die. It was out of alignment & leaked between the outer "H" & the inner "I" . They were only concerned with if I had the package & receipt. Since I bought it back in January & no longer had either they couldn't help me. Been waiting 2 weeks for the SUPVR to call me back. I left 2 msgs, still no reply. They don't support the products they made 2 yrs ago. Much less what they made 6 months ago. $30+ bucks down the drain. And they only answer the phone about 20hrs a week. Now I'll have to buy one made by RCBS.
Grew up on LYMAN casting Equipment. Now I'll never buy another LYMAN Product.

[D-RIG]

I have a Lee drip-o-matic ( that hasn't dripped ) since I welded the bottom hole shut . It's worked since 1977 , on the other hand it hasn't had to work as much since I got a Pro-melt in the early eighties .

Is this a case where ebay might have the parts you need ?

Jack

Welding it shut to stop the leaking " I like it "

[wills]

I got my Waage a little over two years ago
Highly recommended

"We manufacture the K4757. ~#25 pounds, temperature 800 °F; 115v We maintain the price affordable for the re-loaders. The item is marketed via the re-loader blogs.

1. The K4757 melter is scheduled to be manufactured within the next 10 business days.

2. The price is $198.00 + S& H of $30.00 .

3. Payment is via visa/mc, please call with the cc number to place the order. 800-922-4365"

Good pot. Don't consider anything else.

[Baja_Traveler]

Waage - and never worry about crappy pots again...

210052

[MGySgt]

Good pot. Don't consider anything else.

Well my WAAGE pot went Tango Uniform on Sunday. Left a message for WAAGE on Monday morning - haven't heard back. The K4757 is not on their Web Site - use to be, but not now. Don't know if I want to spend the money on WAAGE or not.

[Mr_Sheesh]

http://waage.thomasnet.com/item/solder-pots-and-tanks/round-solder-pot/mp40a-6-1-1395 isn't free but hmmmmmm...

[desiko]

Hey MGySgt, was thinking about buying one of these, how long did it last before it rolled over?
Maybe you could bypass the thermostat (if that's what failed) and use a PID control instead?

[bruce drake]

My LEE 10lb pot was a dripomatic shortly after I started using it but a wood screw twisted up into the spout has kept it leak-free for 20 years. That said, its heating element burnt out on me last year. Titan Reloading (their link is at the top of the page) has the replacement coil on hand and it was a 20 minute job disassembling the pot and putting the new coil in its place. total cost for the coil - $9 plus shipping. Probably good for another 20 years.

[Gewehr-Guy]

I've also got a Lyman 20 lb. furnace with a burnt out heating coil, can a Lee replacement coil be stretched a bit to fit over a slightly larger cast iron pot? With Lees parts so reasonable I'm not even going to call Lyman and give them the opportunity to say we can't help, have a nice day.

[MGySgt]

Hey MGySgt, was thinking about buying one of these, how long did it last before it rolled over?

I have had it over 10 years - however I hasd fixed my Lyman Mag 20 Dipper (burnt wire) and put it back in service. I died twice since then - the last time was the heating coil, about 3 years ago.
I started using the WAAGE then, but I really haven't cast much in the last 18 months or so.

Bottom line - about 2 years of service for the WAAGE. I know there are users of the WAAGE that have gotten real good service out of theirs. I just have had a bad time with pots lately. :)

[Mr_Sheesh]

MGySgt - Hopefully you mean IT died twice since then, not YOU died twice since then :P

(Typonese - Learned to read it years ago LOL)

Waage should be willing to help you with that, if not that makes them not so good a deal...

[desiko]

That's not so great. Just got a quote for $237 + $30 shipping for the Waage. Not sure what to do.
Would rather put that money into an old RCBS Pro melt if I could find one for sale somewhere.

[Mr_Sheesh]

As I get moved I'm going to be buying another pot, maybe a 40# Waage (if they treat customers right), maybe another Pro Melt, used if must be. Definitely interested in how they treat you, MGySgt

[RCE1]

for dipping, Waage. for bottom pour, RCBS.

[MGySgt]

Finally tore into my WAAGE pot- burnt wire. Not sure if it shorted the light or not. I will fix it in the morning and hook it back up (pot is completly apart). Good thing I have extra insulation I got somewhere for my Lyman - I am going to need it! :)

[MGySgt]

Customer Support from WAAGE - so far NONE. Of corse I only left them a message from their Web Site. Guess I should call.

[MGySgt]

Finally tore into my WAAGE pot- burnt wire. Not sure if it shorted the light or not. I will fix it in the morning and hook it back up (pot is completly apart). Good thing I have extra insulation I got somewhere for my Lyman - I am going to need it! :)

Fixed the wires and put the pot back together (had to go to ACE Hardware for Terminal ends and crimps).

I did test it before I put it back together just to see if the light would come on - it did. It won't show continuity but it did turn on when I put power to it.

Put it all back together and stuffed extra insulation in it, Turned it on and let it melt about 3 pounds of lead. I also turned on my Lee so I could empty it.

Full pot came up to temp and cycled off, just like it should. I adjusted the temp down and took out 8 pounds of lead and added cold back in and let it set. Came up to temp and worked fine.

If I burn out another wire I will send it back to WAAGE for a complete rewire (Maybe). If the Thermostate goes out I will order the new Casting pot RCBS is coming out with.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/868436/rcbs-easy-melt-furnace-120-volt

Looks like it will give the WAAGE a run for it's money.

Lyman drops it's dipper pot and RCBS comes out with a new one a few years later. We know who is watching the industry and who isn't!

[Mr_Sheesh]

Whoa its a ladle pot? Hmmmm

[wills]

Well my WAAGE pot went Tango Uniform on Sunday. Left a message for WAAGE on Monday morning - haven't heard back. The K4757 is not on their Web Site - use to be, but not now. Don't know if I want to spend the money on WAAGE or not.

So far as I know it never was on the website. You had to e mail them to get one.

[Iowa Fox]

Day in and day out you can't beat a Lee for value, they will pour good bullets and if you need parts Titan has them on hand priced reasonably and ready to ship. Thanks Lee & Titan. No one should have to put up with crabby customer service people when all they want is to buy a few parts even if its just a couple o rings.

[MGySgt]

So far as I know it never was on the website. You had to e mail them to get one.

If I remember correctly I called them when I ordered mine - been a long time sice I bought it. It was a backup to my Lyman Mag Dipper (20lb pot). Lyman no longer makes it. My Lyman went TU a few years ago and I brought out the WAAGE. I don't cast as much as I use to.

The WAAGE is working well. One thing I didn't like about the WAAGE and the Lee was how high they sat up on my casting bench. (It is a dedicated bench in a dedicated shed). Well I cut a hole in the top so I could drop the pot down, built a shelf under the bench to hold the pot and the few sessions I had (about 10 hours worth) it works great and I don't have a problem of dipping deep, or seeing into the bottom of the pot. Also my arms don't get tired holding them up so high.

I am thinking about puttin 2 pieces of angle iron on the bech top to set the mold on. 4 cavity brass and iron get heavy real quick - aint as young as I use to be.