Faster loads in the .280 Remington?

[jhalcott]

I was looking at some loads for the 30-06 in my Lyman books. They have 150 grain loads to 2500+ fps. The .280 remington loads STOP at about 16/1700 fps. Is there a REAL reason that I can NOT use the 30-06 powders /charges in the .280 case?? They are using the same #2 alloy in both cases and the pressures for the ones listed are very similar. Is it because the -06 is used in long range military shoots and the .280 isn't?

[felix]

280 requires a slower powder for the same velocity of same weight projectile in 30-06. What makes it worse is that the 280 typically has a faster twist, making the power requirement even slower for the same TYPICAL accuracy. ... felix

[Larry Gibson]

Because Lyman lists loads to 2500 fps for the '06 doesn't mean they are all that accurate. A regular cast bullet is just not going to do well in the 9 1/2" twist of the 280 or the 10" twist of the '06. The best accuracy with regular type cast bullets, assuming a proer fit to the leade and barrel, will be down in the 1500-1950 fps range depending on alloy and burning rate of powder used. With specially designed bullets or the lighter weight Loverns of harder alloy, slower powders and lots of testing you can sneak up to 2400-2500 and maintain 2-3 moa consistantly (that's with 10 shot groups). You can clean the barrel every 5 shots or so and do slightly better for 3 or 5 shot groups. That kind of accuracy is dependant on the rifles capability and your shooting ability. Expect the rifle to shoot not better than it does with quality J bullet loads at best with cast bullet loads. You can go to great lengths to ensure you are using only "perfect" cast bullets" and atain the best accuracy your rifle is capable of.

The reason you'll have trouble with accuracy is at 2400-2500 fps with the 9 1/2" twist you are cranking 182,300 to 189,900 RPM. Any defects in the bullet from either casting or caused during accelleration is going to adversly affect the rotational stability of the bullet and inaccuracy will result. If you are going to shoot cast bullets well at high velocity you must do what you can to negate the defects. Cast bullets at high velocity is a challenging endeavor, good luck.

Larry Gibson

[jhalcott]

Well I guess that is a good answer or two. I do agree that EVERY thing must be near perfect when playing this game, and STILL there is a fly in the ointment occasionally! This barrel is a custom job throated for 160 grain Jwords I never gave the differences in twist a thought when I asked about speed. This DOES make me think a bit MORE about hi velocity and accuracy with this gun and cast bullets. I have a couple Loverin design molds. I also KNOW that I don't NEED speed to kill a deer.!
Thanx!

[Larry Gibson]

"I also KNOW that I don't NEED speed to kill a deer.!"

If that is your objective then velocity in the 2000 - 2100 fps area with a softer maleable alloy is quite feaseable with good accuracy (especially minute of deer). The Loverns may be the ticket with your rifles throat. Let us know how you do.

Larry Gibson

[runfiverun]

2000-2100 is and should be easy enough, i get that outta my 7 mausers without any difficulty
and the acuracy is plenty for deer to 200 yds easily. you just gotta shoot it and know your loads drop.
water dropped ww's g/c and sized 286 wait the full month to shoot and go to town.
4895 and slower powders will easily accomplish what you want.
and don't be afraid to try some fillers.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
The 280 rem/7mm express is the commercial version of my 7mm/06.
Great round, I must admit to never trying a Lovern . A sin I guess. Always preferred the heavy bullets.
I have always had a hard time getting any type of good groups above 2,200fps.
Try something like Wc 860 (50 cal pull down gov. surplus powder) .
YES A SLOW BURNER.
I use the 168 gr. gc lyman.

[Larry Gibson]

Apologies to all as I obviously failed to edit my last post. The spelling errors are horrendous.

Larry Gibson

[JIMinPHX]

The .280 has been a finicky cartridge for me to reload. I worked on it for a while & didn’t get any results that I really liked, so I put it on the shelf for a while. In another 6-months or so I may pull it back down & take another crack at it. I think that my biggest problem was that I was using powders that were too fast. I had been trying to use RE-15 & 748 because they were what I had on hand. I’m pretty sure that I need to rethink that. Something like RE-25 is probably a better place for me to start.

[jhalcott]

This gun is certainly one of my most accurate rifles. Cliff LaBounty rebored and rechambered a BAD 25-06 that was well under specs. The gun will/has shot ten shot groups under ,75"(sandbags and 12x scope) with hand loads. Under an inch with FACTORY 160 ammo.
So since accuracy of the gun isn't a problem, I keep thinking of ways to test me and the ammo. I have NO desire to hurt either the gun or ME doing this.

[jhalcott]

WELL! Today's efforts would NOT make an accuracy buff happy. The 287405 bullets did NOT group as well as I had hoped. Large erratic groups even from a sand bagged rest. The smallest was nearly 4 inches wide but only an inch high. This was shot with 42 grains of Imr 3031. These bullets were cast from a Lyman #2 alloy,Gator checks and Felix lube. The group was NOT duplicated! This was the highest charge tried also. Most groups(?) were in the 6" range. I was delighted to find NO leading on the patches between groups . Tonight and tommorrow, I.ll be cleaning guns though. I plan on one more try with this powder. I am going to use teflon tape on some to see if that will help.

[Larry Gibson]

Back the 3031 off to 26 gr and work up in 1 gr increments. A dacron filler is also adviseable. The size of the groups will tell you when the rifle/bullet/load combination has passed through the RPM threshold.
Then when you find a load with good internal ballistics but is just beyond the RPM threshold and not grouping well you can begin to vary things like alloy, lube, etc., one at a time seeking improved accuracy or at least acceptable accuracy. Velocity is not going to be 2500+ fps with that bullet though and have even acceptable accuracy unless you become satisfied with the 4-6" groups. Doesn't appear you will though.

Larry Gibson

[jhalcott]

I REALLY hate to use fillers. 42.5 grains is listed as the MAX load with a 150 grain cast bullet in the 30-06. I dropped back to 38.5 and 40 grains as starting and intermediate loads. 42 was my MAX. There was no hesitation when the trigger broke. Cases were visually inspected after firing. No problems were noted,nor any found when looked at thru a 3x glass at home. I expect SOME improvements with Teflon tape. This whole project is for amusement more than any thing else. I need some excuse to get off the couch!

[runfiverun]

i would expect something from the tape, but not an improvement especially over the long run.
if you are looking for accuracy, [this is just a suggestion]
i would look in the 1900 fps section and a filler definately helps as can a primer swap.
[pistol primers will hold 40,000k or so]