Loading for 1911 45

[ole_270]

Just retired this week and my kids surprised me with a Sig Sauer 1911 Target. I've been long guns only for the last 30 years and never did have a semi-auto. The plan is to run cast only. I've got healthy supplies of Solo1000,International Clays, Universal 800x, and long shot. Partial bottles of Green Dot and Unique. Going to order Lee mold for for 200 gr RF or TC bullet to get started. Any brand of load dies to avoid? Since I've never loaded for an auto round are there any traps I should be aware of?

[tazman]

I just recently started loading for 45 ACP myself. I am using Lee reloading dies and using the 200 grain SWC mold(H&G 68 clone). The thing you need to watch is OAL of your load. It needs to be as long as possible without jamming the boolit into the rifling of your barrel. This requires some experimentation using the plunk test. Usually you can have only a few thousandths of the front drive band showing in front of the case. This depends on how your barrel is throated of course. Try for an OAL of around1.2- 1.250 give or take.
My 1911 has issues when trying to load the rounds shorter.
The powders you have listed will work. You just need to check the reference material and web sites for load data.
Mine seems to like the lighter loads for accuracy.
My 45 is a Springfield Armory Mil-Spec. It feeds both round nose and the SWC flawlessly for me.
Almost any alloy can be used since it is a low pressure cartridge. I am using range scrap and sizing to .452 and tumble lubing with no leading issues at all.

[Bigslug]

The main pitfall I had when learning to load .45, or most any other auto is getting sufficient taper crimp to where you get consistent smooth entry into the chamber, allowing for full lockup of the gun. Once you have that carefully dialed in during your setup phase, it's a pretty forgiving cartridge.

Bulky powders for your desired effect are desirable, as it is an pretty easy case to accidentally double charge.

[tazman]

Bigslug is right about the taper crimp being important. I recommend you seat the boolit and crimp in separate steps. The reason is, if your brass is not all exactly the same length, you will invariably start cutting lead from the side of the boolit when the crimp starts on the longer brass. Crimping in a separate step avoids this.
I use a Lee factory crimp die to do the crimp since it is so easy to adjust. It will also assure that the cartridge will fit inside the chamber unless you have a very tight chamber.

[ole_270]

Thanks for the primer guys, got a lot to scrounge up for this one, hardware and knowledge.

[NuJudge]

If you're loading lubricated Lead bullets in the .45 acp, you're going to have lube build up in your seat die, which will gradually cause your die to seat deeper, which is a problem. With all dies except one make, disassembly for cleaning means you lose adjustment, but not with Dillon.

You would also be well advised to separate the seating action from the crimp action.

[Leadmelter]

Have a long and health retirement. My started off with Colon Cancer and Chemo.
The 45, what kind of recoil spring will handle.
200 gr, 5.0 gr WW231. Work well in my Gold Cup.
Leadmelter

[JohnH]

I've not had success with the Lee 200 RF feeding reliably in my 45. The 230 TC however feeds like a house afire. The only time it has not fed was when the gun failed to extract and jammed the gun up. I use 3.3 grains of Tite Wad makes about 750 fps, a good target load. 4.5 grains of Tite Groups is a good target load too. 4.5-5 grains of Green Dot ain't shabby either

[Blackwater]

I'll second Bigslug's comments too. And the next thing to attend to is OAL. Each different bullet will likely require a different OAL, if only by very small amounts. One way to start is to set your seater plug on a 230 gr. RNFMJ round, and then, with the case primed, charged with powder and the neck belled out just enough to insert the base of the bullet to go in without shaving the sides, try seating the first bullet with the die set for the 230 FMJRN. This should get you close. If they don't feed that consistently, that usually means you need to set them a tad deeper. And it doesn't take much at all to go from "mostly feeds" to "never jams."

2nd tip I'd give you is to crimp in a separate step. If you have a 3 die set, you can screw the seater plug back out and screw the die body down until it just touches the belled out case mouth, and then, just turn it down 1/8 of a turn at the time until the bell is straightened out, and the case mouth just bites lightly into the bullet. This has given me very reliable feeding in the several .45's I've had through the years. Hope this helps?

And as to powders, anything from about Bullseye to Unique will do. Some use Blue Dot and report great results and a little extra velocity, but I have found Unique, Red Dot, 700-X, Tightgroup and Unique all do very well. Each gun my have a preference if you want to really get down to the last vestige of accuracy with your gun, so you may want to try them all.

Nobody goes to a neighbor any more to borrow a cup of sugar, but my little group of reloaders that I associate with may well ask to borrow a small cup full of a certain powder to try in their guns. And none of us has ever balked at that, because if we did, our buddies would balk when it's our turn to ask. Co-ops have their functions!

[DougGuy]

A couple of things... Most 1911s have a sweet spot with the COA length that will feed the best. Too short and they jam, too long and they won't fit in the magazine or the barrel throat. If yours has a tight throat, you may be forced to seat deeper in the case than you would like, just so the rounds "plunk" and will cycle. This causes load data to have to be compensated for to avoid an over pressure event, and now we are to the point that they might or might not feed reliably at this shorter COA.

If you find that you would like to seat to 1.250" and it won't plunk at this COA, send the barrel and have it throated, then choose any style boolit you want, seated out to whatever COA you would like, as long as it will fit in the magazine, and go shoot the thing til the cows come home!

The Lee C452-200-RF works great in the 1911 but the sides come out of the case mouth parallel and will be parallel at .452" diameter nearly .080" from the case mouth. Not many modern factory barrels will "plunk" a round loaded to what the books say the COA should be for this boolit, because manufacturers put the minimum amount of throat in there that they can get away with, and they only throat them for jacketed bullets, at .451" diameter.

Quite common really, and a very easy fix, to get a 1911 barrel to run like a singer sewing machine with .452" boolits seated to 1.250" COA, just not likely to achieve this right out of the box, before throating the barrel. Not easy to get a 452423 to cycle without throating but afterwards? Piece of cake! Don't fight the barrel throat, if it won't do what you wish it would do when you get it, we can fix that real quick.

Good luck with your 1911 experience! I have loved and owned these in many flavors since I can remember.

[S.B.]

H&G no. 68(I think) over 5.9 of Winchester 231 has worked for me for years.
Steve

[sutherpride59]

For me I Use an RCBS mold the 201 grain swc, mine come out to about 217grn with 50/50 water quenched. I load them over hogdon clays, just plain old clays, it's cheap, mild and accurate to boot. I also use cci large pistol primers, size to 452, and lube with Felix lube. My beretta px4 .45 loves this combination too, I got 1 1/2" groups at 27 yards with this setup. I would say the only finicky business with 45 is like others said seating depth, after that only a very mild crimp is needed. I used my Lee factory crimp die and bottom it out against a loaded round with the press all the way up, lower the press arm and give it 3/4 more of a turn farther then and that's it. A nice mild crimp just enough to take the bell out. After that there isn't much to it, the 230grn lee TC mold is a good mold and will feed very well in a 1911 but mine has no problem with SWCs either as long as I seat them far enough. I just don't like the bevel base on the Lee 230TC, make a sticky lube mess.

[Char-Gar]

OK here goes. The 1911 pistol was designed for a 200 - 230 grain bullet pushed down the barrel with 5 grains of Bullseye powder. Load cast bullet of .452 with a taper crimp and a 16 lb recoil spring, and all will be good. Yes, a taper crimp will make things work better.

[sutherpride59]

Don't go crazy with the crimp though or your accuracy will suffer.

[Wayne Smith]

My Kimber had no throat. DougGuy fixed it, just as he posted above.

[RoadBike]

I'm a novice at casting, but I've been loading commercial cast bullets for 45 ACP for for years.

A 200gr LSWC with a thumbnail thickness of shoulder showing above the case mouth works well for me. I use Lee dies. I have loaded with or without the Lee Factory Crimp Die. Currently, I'm using the regular seat/crimp die.

I've had good luck with Bullseye and Titegroup. My 1911s seem to like 4.6 to 4.8gr Titegroup.

[ole_270]

Thanks for the information guys. Question, how often do you trim 45 acp cases? I've ordered load dies, NOE size bushing and expander, a couple Lee Molds to try out, but forgot the case trimmer pilot. Don't really want to pay shipping for just the pilot, so will probably wait till I order something else or find one in a store

[Dusty Bannister]

You will probably never need to trim 45 ACP cases for normal purposes.

[Cherokee]

Dusty is right, I have never trimmed 45 ACP in over 50 years of reloading it, just not necessary.

[mdi]

I've only been reloading the 45 ACP for 17 years. I started with a Ruger P90 and then got a 1911 by RIA. I've tried several different bullets in my 45s and for the 1911 I've settled on the H&G 68 clone and a Lee 200 gr LSWC cast medium soft. The P90 requires a more rounded/tapered bullet shape to feed reliably so I use 230 gr RN, either cast or jacketed.

A couple hints I've used; don't worry about case life and flare as much as you need to get good shootable ammo. It's OK to err on the "too much" side to make sure you're not shaving lead (or copper if you choose plated bullets). Even if you only get 10 reloads rather than 20 out of your brass, good shooting ammo now is more important now and 45 ACP brass is cheap and readily available.The only "problem" will be the case mouth may scrape the ID of the seating die, no big deal. I don't crimp any of my semi-auto reloads as I just straighten out the flare in the case mouth and use the plunk test. I just "deflare" the case mouth with a taper crimp die and check with the plunk test. Later after you have all the intricacies down, then reduce flare accordingly.

I don't think I've ever trimmed a handgun case (mainly because I don't believe the "consistent case lengths = consistent crimps". Maybe in theory, but not so much in real life and I've not seen any factual reports of any benefits). I have a 45 ACP Lee trimming stud somewhere, but I never used it. I started reloading the 45 by sorting brass by headstamp, but have found too, that is not really necessary, just one of those things that "if you wanna, it's OK to do it".

The 45 ACP is a good, forgiving round to reload, but for a newer 45 reloader, keep with data from your manuals, especially for OAL (Lyman manuals have good data for both FMJ and cast bullets)...

[Char-Gar]

A word about crimping; Take a fresh factory load and a micrometer and measure the case mouth and just behind it. You will fine the case is not straight, but have a crimp on the mouth. It has been done this way for the entire production life of the round which is over a century and billions and billions of rounds.

There is a reason for this. To ignore this is to ask for a bullet to be shoved down in the case creating an over pressure situation. Feeding is also enhanced. You will also note that on many factory loads there is a crimp below the bullet to help keep it from being shoved down in the case. Take the issue of keeping the bullet where it belongs, as it strikes the feed ramp, with the seriousness it deserves.

Here is how you adjust a taper crimp die for the proper taper crimp on a loaded 45 ACP round.

1. Take a factory loaded round and with it in the shell holder run the press ram up to it's highest point.

2. Take a taper crimp die and run it down on the factory round as hard as you can using hand pressure only.

3. Set the die crimp ring and you are done. Your rounds will now have the correct taper crimp to match factory ammo. You are good to go.

Now about cast trimming. For most uses trimming 45 ACP cases is not necessary. However if you are loading for ultimate accuracy, then trimming the cases to a uniform length will help you achieve your goal. Uniform case length, means uniform crimp, which means uniform bullet tension and release, which means better accuracy.

Loading the 45 ACP round for the 1911 pistol is very straightforward and problem free. However, when folks try and get creative in their loading, all kinds of issues may be introduced.

I have several sets of 45 ACP dies which I use for 45 ACP, 45 Auto Rim and 45 Cowboy Special. They are all RCBS dies.

[halvey]

I loaded lots and lots of .45 on my Dillon. Used 3.5 Bullseye with either a 185 or 200 SWC. OAL was right at the top of the wax line.


Just retired this week and my kids surprised me with a Sig Sauer 1911 Target. I've been long guns only for the last 30 years and never did have a semi-auto. The plan is to run cast only. I've got healthy supplies of Solo1000,International Clays, Universal 800x, and long shot. Partial bottles of Green Dot and Unique. Going to order Lee mold for for 200 gr RF or TC bullet to get started. Any brand of load dies to avoid? Since I've never loaded for an auto round are there any traps I should be aware of?

[Texas by God]

I'm with CharGar & DustyBannister on this one. I spent a month in 1979 learning what NOT to do loading the .45 ACP. Since then it's been a breeze. 5grs Bullseye/no trimming/200-230gr boolit.
Best, Thomas.

[Engineer1911]

I bought this pistol, used, at Gander Mountain store closing sale a week ago. I'm a happy shooter.

Buy McCormick 'Shooting Star' mags, included directions say: "OAL = 1.250" with 200 gr SWC" and "Crimp diameter (at case mouth) = 0.469" +0.001"

You will not have a feeding problem.

Bullet mold: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/336035/lee-6-cavity-bullet-mold-452-200-swc-45-acp-45-auto-rim-45-colt-long-colt-452-diameter-200-grain-semi-wadcutter

Carefully remove the "bevel base" from the mold with a new blade in a utility knife. You will have a flat base bullet that weighs 217 grains. Works great in a Lyman sizer @ 0.452" diameter sizer, loads very easily, and is accurate. It took me about 10 minutes to remove the bevel base feature and cast approximately a 1,000 bullets per hour. My Lyman 45 acp molds were carefully cleaned, oiled, and retired.

[fredj338]

Thanks for the information guys. Question, how often do you trim 45 acp cases? I've ordered load dies, NOE size bushing and expander, a couple Lee Molds to try out, but forgot the case trimmer pilot. Don't really want to pay shipping for just the pilot, so will probably wait till I order something else or find one in a store

I have probably loaded & shot 100k rds of 45acp in 4-5 diff 1911s. You NEVER need to trim a service pistol case, they just don't grow. OAL will ALWAYS be bullet & barrel specific, always, regardless of data.

[edadmartin]

Great tip on how to get a factory like taper crimp!
I started reloading in 2010. So far ive only loaded 45acp, i like the MBC 200 gr lswc .ive always loaded with AA-2 i started out at 4.4 and laddered up to 5.2 the rabbit fart load was to smoky for the in door range i belong to ive never cronoed the 5.2 id guess 850 ish. At 5.2 it still a mediun recoil and less smoky and my practice distance is 10-14 yards and accuracy is very ��.Im almost out of AA-2 and will try red dot next ,probably start at 4.0 with that powder . I shoot once a week and have met many greater shooters than myself, and all of them are great people.

[S.B.]

I've shot some of my .45 ACP cases I suppose 20 times and have never trimmed them?
Steve

[David2011]

Try for an OAL of around1.2- 1.250 give or take.

I've had good results with a SWC and that OAL as well. (The max OAL of 1.275 for .45 ACP only applies with John Browning's original bullet profile. The inside of the magazine is contoured to match the original bullet. A TC or SWC seated to the max OAL won't even fit in the magazine.)


I've not had success with the Lee 200 RF feeding reliably in my 45. The 230 TC however feeds like a house afire. The only time it has not fed was when the gun failed to extract and jammed the gun up. I use 3.3 grains of Tite Wad makes about 750 fps, a good target load. 4.5 grains of Tite Groups is a good target load too. 4.5-5 grains of Green Dot ain't shabby either

The truncated cone makes contact with the feed ramp and chamber at pretty much the same points as the original bullet does. It was designed to feed the same as the original ball ammo.


A 200gr LSWC with a thumbnail thickness of shoulder showing above the case mouth works well for me.

This is very important IMO. If the square edge of the mouth of the brass doesn't have a little boolit ahead of it then jams are far more likely. Out of curiosity I measured my thumbnail and the width of the exposed shoulder on some of my loaded rounds. Both were between .020" and .025".

One nice thing about loading for the 1911 is the ability to tune it to what you want. If you get the accuracy, feed and recoil the way you want it but ejection unreliable it's easy to swap to a lighter recoil spring. You don't have to put up with full house loads in the 1911 unless you really want to.

One other thing: I have never seen a .45 ACP case that was too long.

[lightman]

Congratulations on your retirement! It sounds like you have some great kids.

I can't think of anything that has not been covered. My load is a H&G 68 clone weighing around 200 grains and between 3.5 and 5.0 grains of 231. If you are loading on a progressive machine, beware of double charges. This is a fast burning powder and the case can hold 2 charges. There are other powders that are more bulky and will fill the case, eliminating the possibility of double charges, but I'm still using 231.

[halvey]

When I shot IDPA, I'd shoot 1000's of rounds a year. I have never trimmed.


I've shot some of my .45 ACP cases I suppose 20 times and have never trimmed them?
Steve

[S.B.]

My limiting factor for .45ACPs was I wanted to be sure and make major power factor in IPSC?
Steve

[ioon44]

I use VV N 310 with a 200 gr SWC coated with Hi-Tek to make Major PF for IDPA / IPSC , this is a really clean and accurate load.

[JimB..]

Your new 1911 has been built to tighter tolerances that those of a decade ago. Perhaps this increases accuracy and longevity, but a certain percentage of shooters find that it reduces reliability especially for the first 1,000 rounds. It is more expensive, but you may find it more enjoyable to purchase 230gr FMJ bullets to load your first rounds rather than introducing the variables associated with loading a home-cast WC. Once you know that the gun is running well with what it was designed for it'll be easier to interpret and adjust as you experiment with your cast loads.

But that's just me, other folks like to introduce all the variables at once.

good luck, and congrats on your retirement!
Jim

[tazman]

I, apparently, am in the second group. I introduced the 200 grain SWC after only 200-300 rounds of 230 grain round nose.
I guess I must have hit the jackpot with the OAL since the gun still hasn't malfunctioned. Or maybe I just got a really good pistol(Springfield Armory Mil-Spec).

[JimB..]

Having run a few hundred 230gr FMJ rounds first, and using SWC rather than WC, puts you firmly in the first group. You'll have to find another way to be a rebel. ;-)

[William Yanda]

I read on the internet that testing 45 acp cases to failure they actually grew shorter. Read it on the internet so it has to be true doesn't it? I cannot recall the explanation, but it runs counter to bottle necked, high pressure load experience.

[JimB..]

Theory is that pressure in a bottle-necked case pushes forward on the shoulder and back on the base while the straight-walled case doesn't have this. Also, rifle tends to be higher pressure so brass holds more firmly against the chamber walls so more stretching.

Not sure why it would get shorter, but above is what I've been told about why it doesn't tend to get longer.

[Whitespider]

Hmmmm.......
My recently purchased 1911 has never seen a jacketed bullet... after a simple extractor tension adjustment reliability has been 100%.
I often wonder where the theory that a few jacketed bullets run through a new gun will improve the cast boolit experience... the only experience it's ever provided me is cleaning the copper fouling from the barrel.
In all seriousness I have several guns that have never seen a jacketed bullet (mostly handguns)... my Star Firestar .40 has never seen one either, and it has fed cast SWC boolits without stoppages from day one.
*

[tazman]

Having run a few hundred 230gr FMJ rounds first, and using SWC rather than WC, puts you firmly in the first group. You'll have to find another way to be a rebel. ;-)

Actually all but 50 of the first 300 were cast 230 round nose but I suspect you are right about the last part.

[ole_270]

Made it through the one box of fmj that came with the Sig, then the brown truck showed up. New dies and a Lee 452-200 swc, H&G 68 clone, comes close to putting me in business. Took some time tuning up the mold and got started making bullets. This double cavity is pretty picky so far, need to check venting on the top side. I used a jewelers file to break the top edges between the blocks but pour speed and sprue size need to be just so to get consistent base fill out. While waiting on a pot refill to heat up, I got a couple hundred powder coated. I don't have the bullet size bushing yet and being anxious to get the lead flying, I put a couple light coats of BLL on a few as cast bullets. From the mold they mic .4535-.4545 so figured I could get away with it. Loaded two bullets with 5 grains Solo 1000 after they were mostly dry, set the seating depth to show about .02 of the shoulder above the case(1.24 oal), and the taper crimp to .470. Plunk test might even be slightly deep. Loaded both in the magazine, racked the slide and gave them a try. No troubles at all, only two rounds but it's looking good so far. Couple patches with Eds Red are all it took to clean it. Hopefully the size bushing gets here tomorrow so I can get this thing lined out. Thanks to all for the help and suggestions

[JimB..]

I often wonder where the theory that a few jacketed bullets run through a new gun will improve the cast boolit experience...

Don't know, have never heard that one.

[tazman]

Possibly by getting the rough edges off the rifling and throat area or, in the case of a semi auto, getting the action broken in.
Other than that, no reason to think jacketed would improve anything.

[bayjoe]

I have trouble keeping enough lead to feed my 1911. My Springfield has a huge appetite!

[tazman]

I hear that.
After casting 125 gainers for the 9mm, the 200-230 grain boolits sure drain that pot fast.

[David2011]

Buy McCormick 'Shooting Star' mags, included directions say: "OAL = 1.250" with 200 gr SWC" and "Crimp diameter (at case mouth) = 0.469" +0.001"

You will not have a feeding problem.

I missed this the first read through. This may well be the best bit of advice in the thread. Maybe I think that because I bought the same mags and settled in on 0.469 as my taper crimp shortly after getting my first 1911 but both specs have been perfect for me. I also have a set of 10 round Wilson Combat magazines that have been flawless.


Hmmmm.......
My recently purchased 1911 has never seen a jacketed bullet... after a simple extractor tension adjustment reliability has been 100%.
I often wonder where the theory that a few jacketed bullets run through a new gun will improve the cast boolit experience... the only experience it's ever provided me is cleaning the copper fouling from the barrel.
In all seriousness I have several guns that have never seen a jacketed bullet (mostly handguns)... my Star Firestar .40 has never seen one either, and it has fed cast SWC boolits without stoppages from day one.
*

I bought a new 1911 several years ago and was already casting for .45 ACP so its diet was all cast. The new gun's accuracy was dismal until about 300 rounds had been run through it. The first shots were literally all over a USPSA target which is about 17-3/4 W x 29-1/2 H at 25 yards. I just kept shooting and after 2 or 3 trips to the range the gun settled down to shoot extremely well. I can only speculate that it might have broken in more quickly with jacketed that it did with lead. I sold the gun to a friend after hurricane Katrina because he really needed one but have always regretted letting it go.

[S.B.]

David2011, you are aware different magazines(lips) feed different bullet differently, aren't you? I do agree Chip's mags do feed semi wad cutters well but, maybe not FMJs?
Steve

[Loudy13]

Trail boss, 200gr bullet would be my suggestion. loaded about 2500 last year and it is definitely my favorite powder for 45 now. Another plus is you wont be able to double charge with TB it will not fit.

[tazman]

David2011, you are aware different magazines(lips) feed different bullet differently, aren't you? I do agree Chip's mags do feed semi wad cutters well but, maybe not FMJs?
Steve

My Chip McCormick magazines feed everything I have tried well including 230fmj and 200 grain semiwadcutters. I can recommend them whole heartedly.

[David2011]

David2011, you are aware different magazines(lips) feed different bullet differently, aren't you? I do agree Chip's mags do feed semi wad cutters well but, maybe not FMJs?
Steve

I'm aware but they have fed Saeco 200 gr SWCs, Lyman 452374 (same profile as JMB's ball ammo) and 230 gr polymer coated Precision without issue in several firearms. I used 8 round McCormick mags for USPSA and 10 round Wilson Combat for steel plate before buying an STI and never had a failure to feed with any of them. I shot mostly the 452374 from the Shooting Star mags to make USPSA Major at a reasonable velocity.