7.62x25 Ruger cylinder for .30 Carbine Blackhawk

[Outpost75]

I've been brainstorming having a Bowen cylinder blank chambered to 7.62x25 and fitted to my .30 Carbine Blackhawk. Anybody done this? Was case setback freezing the cylinder a problem? I'll be using handloads in Starline brass, no milsurp ammo. PTG offers a CIP reamer. I figure that TOK has less body taper than .22 Jet or Harvey K-Chuk and only minimal bottleneck, and figure if chambers are kept clean and dry it should work. Plan is to use mostly cast bullets, but may try some .309 Hornady XTPs for varmints.

Anybody ACTUALLY DONE THIS? What was your experience?

[GhostHawk]

Sounds very interesting. I have a CZ-52 that shoots the 7.62x25, fun little round. Low on recoil and muzzle blast with higher than normal speed. Seems like a fun project.

[lar45]

Sounds like an excellent project.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/232997/story-replacement-cylinder-blank-304-chamber-ruger-blackhawk-steel-in-the-white

Midway has Ruger cylinder blanks for $155.99 with a .304" bore to start from.
https://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/232/232997.jpg

[Hamish]

Sounds to me like this project would be a perfect application for the 30 Badger,,,,,,,,,

[NoAngel]

Yes. .30 Badger all the way. The rim of the .38 special case is revolver friendly and well...38 special cases are everywhere.
Youll use your 7,62x25 sizing and seating die so other than a reamer, there's nothing to it. No trimming either from standard 38 special brass.

Manson Reamers should have the Badger print on file.

Data starts with 32/20 and you can go much further from there. That Blackhawk is strong, so you will have no trouble unless you just act a fool.

Its just a wee bit of leg work but the ease of using 38 special cases with the die you'll be using anyway it's well worth it.

I have a Badger on an SB-2 Handi rifle and I LOVE it. Case life is excellent and the longer neck is much more cast friendly.

[GhostHawk]

I can see where it would be a whole lot easier using .38 special cases and necking them down than it is taking .223 cases, cutting them, trimming them, probably should thin the necks, then size and load.

I finally got tired of fussing with the bugger and bought 5 boxes of loaded hollowpoint's for it. But it was fun stuff for a while.

Building one from scratch like that seems the .38 would be the easy way.

[Outpost75]

I already have Cz52 and TT33 pistols factory PPU ammo and 1000 Starline cases, so have no plans to reform 5.56 brass or use corrosive milsurp ammo, way too much mental masturbation. I like the idea of a .30 Carbine and 7.62x25 convertible Ruger.

[Texas by God]

Kind of a Korean War combo. I would try some surplus Tok ammo in it just for giggles but it seems to be dried up. The spam cans are no longer seen. You are the pioneer, Outpost. Keep us updated. Best, Thomas.

[MuthaFunk]

A most interesting project! We still have lots of milsurp 762X25 around here. I've been thinking about a similar project but haven't been able to see a path forward. This sounds reasonably easy. Midway doesn't send goods to Canada though.

Please do keep us updated!

[Outpost75]

Kind of a Korean War combo. I would try some surplus Tok ammo in it just for giggles but it seems to be dried up. The spam cans are no longer seen. You are the pioneer, Outpost. Keep us updated. Best, Thomas.

Plan is to have a bolt rifle for 7.62x25 also, maybe thread it for a can and seat heavy bullets long and load subsonic:

195338

A .222-size boltface works without alteration, PTG offers the CIP-spec reamer and headspace gages, .30 cal. barrel will work.

[reed1911]

The MAP for the 7.62x25 is not 25K, it is 35K!

[DougGuy]

30 Carbine SAAMI max pressure is 40k so he is good to go.. Provided the reamer doesn't thin out cylinder walls or webs below the typical thickness of a 44 magnum cylinder it should still be plenty safe.

[reed1911]

Oh yes, absolutely. It is certainly a great project to undertake.

[Outpost75]

Excellent online references on the 7.63 Mauser pistol and 7.62x25 ammunition are:

http://askmisterscience.com/1896mauserbackup/ammo.htm#sb

http://askmisterscience.com/1896mauserbackup/bolo.htm

[MaryB]

I want to build and AR15 carbine in this caliber. Be a sweet little trapping rifle.

[NoAngel]

I want to build and AR15 carbine in this caliber. Be a sweet little trapping rifle.


Those were all the rage back when surplus ammo was coming in by the metric krap ton and was dirt cheap. All that has long since dried up. A .300 Blackout is basically the same, cheaper to build and has MUCH more support. You really gain nothing but added expense and headache ...unless of course you just WANT one and then...by all means, build it. Wants need no rational justification.

[Outpost75]

@reed1911,

You are right, I misread the pressure data. Thank you for correcting my mistake.

Marshall

CIP lists machine loading limit / sample average as 2500 bar (36,259 psi), statistical high individual pressure Pmax (xbar+3Sigma) as 2800 bar (40,610 psi) and weapon proof pressure as 3250 bar (47,137 psi)

[arlon]

Sounds interesting. What does the 7.62x25 bring to the table? Always thought the 30 carbine Rugers were pretty neat, loud but neat.

[Outpost75]

Sounds interesting. What does the 7.62x25 bring to the table? Always thought the 30 carbine Rugers were pretty neat, loud but neat.

Valid question. When the .30 Carbine Rugers were first introduced in 1968 surplus ammo and the US carbines were plentiful and cheap. GI carbine ammo has all but dried up and is no longer inexpensive. While there are no longer great quantities of cheap 7.62x25 milsurp ammo around, those of us who bought TT33 and Cz52 pistols like the performance of the cartridge. The idea of a highly accurate, sturdy revolver which doesn't put your reloadable brass into low earth orbit over Ohio is attractive.

I already had the .30 Carbine Ruger and thought a convertible cylinder in 7.62x25 would be interesting to experiment with...

[John Taylor]

I saw a Ruger 30 carbine that had a deep imprint around the firing pin that was the same size as the OD of the cartridge. Think the frame was not hard enough to take the pressure.

[NoAngel]

I saw a Ruger 30 carbine that had a deep imprint around the firing pin that was the same size as the OD of the cartridge. Think the frame was not hard enough to take the pressure.



I won't dare say "NO you didn't" but I have a hard time believing the Ruger frame was soft. CERTAINLY possible, I mean, how would I know...I just seriously doubt it.

I would come closer to believing someone was putting a LOT of corrosive ammo through it and NOT cleaning it very well. There's a lot poor abused mil-surp rifles with severely ringed bolt faces because of lazy and/or incompetent shooters.

If you are right however, that would be scary. Ruger being notorious for strength, even their own load data for some cartridges, Ruger's are routinely used and rebuilt for duty that would turn most other revolvers into a frag grenade.

[firebyprolong]

It's certainly a cool idea to set up a ruger for the tok round, my compliments to the op for thinking it up. One of the reasons I love this sight always new ideas floating around.

[NoAngel]

The bottom end of a 38 case is a few thousandths smaller than the Tokarev but MIGHT work. The thing is though, the neck of the Badger is MUCH longer than the Tokarev case, which is why it is so much more friendly to cast shooters. The results would probably suck for any tokarev loads because of the empty space it would have to jump through.

[Outpost75]

I saw a Ruger 30 carbine that had a deep imprint around the firing pin that was the same size as the OD of the cartridge. Think the frame was not hard enough to take the pressure.

Interesting. When was it made? When I was with the company (1980s) Blackhawk frames were Rc43 min.

[GhostHawk]

7.62x25 brings speed with moderate recoil in a pistol.In a longer carbine or rifle barrel even more speed. In a revolver I suspect that making brass from .223 brass would not have as many issues. Some of the semi auto pistols have fairly tight chambers. Not hard to run into chambering issues. Part of that is finding the right bullet mold.

How much speed? Well that depends.

"Factory S&B ammo went 1477 fps with a ES of 87, with the 85 gr bullet."

Fast enough to be accurate, small enough to have a chance to penitrate soft body armor.

I have a Cz-52 which is a hoot to shoot. But it does throw the brass to heck and gone.
So I can see if you have a revolver that will take it like the Ruger. And if you want to invest some time in a cylinder and get something unique. Well there could be an attraction there. I think the days of the cheap milsurp ammo are gone. But you never know who might be sitting on a bunch or have access to it.

Once I found the lee .314 90 gr tc mold my problems were pretty much over. Size down to .309 ish and set it just deep enough to keep the shoulder off the chamber.

Mine shoots well, I had no problem keeping 8 in pop can size group at 20 feet with the iron sights. I was converting unfired .223 blank ammo into brass with the small harbor freight saw. Run them into sizing die to set the shoulder and trim, chamfer.

It was a labor of love thing, and I was playing with it, thinking outside of the box.
At one point I even used a Lee 7.62x54r loader sizing die to size the neck down with the aid of a punch, whack a mole style.

Eventually I moved on to other projects, bought couple hundred rounds of PPU hollow points. Quit fussing with making brass and then throwing it into the weeds. Kind of an exercise in futility. Spend all that time converting brass so you could shoot it. and lose 2/3rds of them on every outing.

But for a while the CZ-52 was my only pistol bigger than .22lr. Far as I can see it would do the job.

[John Taylor]

Interesting. When was it made? When I was with the company (1980s) Blackhawk frames were Rc43 min.
It showed up at a gun show in the 80s. Looked like it was set back about .040". Probably had been in a fire and reblued. I was thinking of buying it till I saw the setback.

[Outpost75]

It showed up at a gun show in the 80s. Looked like it was set back about .040". Probably had been in a fire and reblued. I was thinking of buying it till I saw the setback.

If you have Rockwell tester or place where it can be done affordably, I'm OK with having frame checked before we proceed.

Would be reassuring to know...

[Hamish]

Both France and China made corrosive 30 M1 ammunition, I'm sure there were others. Chinese "LC 52" head stamped has been floating around the US for a couple of decades.

[Outpost75]

Both France and China made corrosive 30 M1 ammunition, I'm sure there were others. Chinese "LC 52" head stamped has been floating around the US for a couple of decades.

Thanks for repeating the warning on French and Chicom corrosive carbine ammo. In my case I just received 500 new Starline cases and am planning on reloading. I may chronograph a few rounds of Federal and PPU factory carbine and PPU 7.62x25 loads just for benchmark, but I'm leaning towards 10-12 grains of Alliant #2400 and Accurate 31-087B in the carbine which I also use in the 7.62x25. 195929



Will post comparative results between the two cartridges when able.

[John Taylor]

I have only seen one Ruger that had a set back problem, that's why I think it had been in a fire that took the hardness out of the frame. At one time I had every caliber Ruger made in a single action revolver. That was many years ago and I only have one left.

[Three44s]

Chased many a hand crafted .223 casing converted to 7.62x25mm through the weeds!

Interesting project and discusion.

Three44s