25-20 neck expanding

[slk]

Guys with loading the 25-20 I picked up a Lee 3 die set. I do not see a neck expander in here. I had heard somewhere that you should expand the necks on these 25-20. I am loading a Lyman 257420 with GC. Any suggestions????

Steve

[Mk42gunner]

I went the easy route and bought the Lyman three die set, it comes with the M-die to expand the neck. Mine works fine with my .258" 257420 boolits.

Robert

[Scharfschuetze]

I also use the Lyman 3 die set for jacketed bullets in the 25/20. For cast bullets, I have the short Lyman M-die with the 25 cal expander which is a few thousandths larger than what came with the standard 3 die set. Another option is to buy the Lyman Cowboy 3d die set which has the proper expander for cast bullets and use that with your Lee 2 die set.

[earlmck]

Once you have added a Lyman "M" die to your Lee's you will have the perfect set. While you are waiting for the "M" die to show up you can load up some by belling the mouth a bit so it doesn't shave lead. I used to use a spitzer bullet that I'd tap with anything handy to get that little flare at the mouth. Nowdays I have an "M" die, or the NOE equivalent, for everything I load. But I belled a lot of 25/20 mouths with a 30 cal spitzer bullet in a previous lifetime.

[Dryball]

if you got the 3 die Lee set you should have the expander (even though the Lyman M is far superior). It's the die that has an open top, it's actually an expander and powder charging die //ads.midwayusa.com/product/806439/lee-powder-through-expander-die-30-carbine?cm_mmc=pf_ci_google-_-Reloading+-+Dies+%26+Shellholders-_-Lee-_-806439&gclid=CjsKDwjw0cXIBRCxjqnE3K3sHhIkAL1LezTFP-WQW68eeBmCX6LrBhkq5HHbI7ZV2fVha7X_dGPYGgIW_fD_BwE

[slk]

The through powder expander is not offered with the Lee 25-20 pacesetter dies. Wish it would have been.I will be calling Lee today to see what they have that might work. I know I can get the Lyman m die.

http://leeprecision.com/pacesetter-dies-25-20.html

[slk]

I ordered this so we will see if it is any good or not. Looked interesting....

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/140461/lee-universal-neck-expanding-die?cm_mmc=se_service-_-OrderConfirmation-_-OrderConfirmation-_-ProductLink

[earlmck]

You are getting there, slk: that Lee Universal just flares your case neck, which will allow seating the cast without shaving. Now with the Lee Universal die on the way go to NOE's site and you can order his great expanders that are built like the "M" die with the two-step expander but are made to go in the Lee die. You can get wonderful expanders for all the different calibers for which you want to load cast. Quite a lot cheaper than a collection of "M" dies if you are going to load several different calibers.

[ole_270]

I made my own M die 30 years ago, but just got the lee universal and Noe expander plug to use instead. Haven't used it yet but it sure looks good.

[slk]

I am trying to understand the need for anything else other than the Lee neck expanding die. What would the NOE expanders do that the Lee won't ??? I have no idea that is why I am asking.

Steve

[ole_270]

Most sizing dies size the neck down more than optimum for our oversize cast bullets. Seating a cast bullet in these undersized cases can further size the bullet so it doesn't seal off the bore properly upon firing. The lee is just a tapered mandrel, only flares the mouth of the case. The M die and NOE's expander for the lee die use a two step pin. The longer 1st step expands the neck closer to the bullet diameter to keep from excessively sizing it down. The 2nd step puts the flare on the case mouth. With the NOE expander you also have several sizes to choose from to help customize to your particular barrel. He recommends ordering the expander section at or just over final sizing diameter for your bullet.

[slk]

So if I were to let NOE know that I am sizing the bullet to .258 with the GC, he will know what plug I need.

Steve

[gwpercle]

I am trying to understand the need for anything else other than the Lee neck expanding die. What would the NOE expanders do that the Lee won't ??? I have no idea that is why I am asking.

Steve
In truth the Lee Universal Neck Expander is a simple belling die...which I use a lot and find useful, but it simply flairs or bells the neck mouth . The Lyman M Die and NOE expander's truly expand the inside of the case neck and flair the mouth also for a cast boolit to be seated without deformation.
Get the Lee Universal and NOE inserts as needed. I use the Lee Universal tool for a lot of things and the with the NOE inserts that makes it an even more versatile set up.
Once you look at the Lee flairing insert you will see what it does and doesn't do. Then check out the NOE site and look at their inserts it will then make more sense.
Gary

[35remington]

"Flare" to gradually widen.

"Flair" Exihibiting a knack or ability. "He had a flair for cooking."

[Whitespider]

Just flaring the case mouth should be enough... I don't see .25-20 brass deforming a gas checked boolit base.
My thinkin' is, using a checked boolit, and as thin as .25-20 brass is, the Lee Universal Neck Expander should work just fine... provided the boolit seats concentrically.

However... I'm also thinkin' the neck expander on the Lee decapping stem...
195253
...which expands as the case is withdrawn from the sizing die, would tend to stretch the case. Personally, I'd replace the Lee Pacesetter die set with a set that expands in a separate die/step. The Lyman set with the M-die is one option, as are the RCBS "Cowboy" dies.

Of course, you could remove the decapping stem from the Pacesetter sizer/decapper and decap using a Universal Decapping Die, and then get a Lyman M-die to do the expanding... but that's a lot of messing around when a different die set fixes all.
*

[Whitespider]

Here's a link to a new set of RCBS "Cowboy" dies for $62 and free shipping on Ebay (if you do Ebay).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RCBS-Cowboy-3-Die-Reloading-Set-w-Roll-Crimp-25-20-WCF-11850-/112370601114?hash=item1a29cf4c9a:g:cYYAAOSwpP9Y8PP U
*

[Wayne Smith]

Since you already have the Lee die coming, go ahead and order the correct NOE plug. You can see what you need on his website - but FWIW you will want to typically expand .002 less than your boolit. Get a couple of sizes - they are cheap for what they are - and try several different and see what your rifle likes. With the GC it is probably a little less critical than with a PB boolit.

When you get the NOE plug(s) lay one alongside the Lee plug and you will visually see the difference. This will end most of these questions!

The investment in a universal decapper and removing the decap plug from your size die is way cheaper than the RCBS die set.

[enfield]

NOE .263 x .259 plug works very nice and its not a sharp taper like the LEE exp. Also the 31R works very well for 303 , 7.62x54 etc.