12 ga Rifled barrel leaded!

[swheeler]

I bought a rifled barrel for the moss 500, hoping for a big improvement in accuraccy over the 18.5 in cyl bore with handloaded 1 oz slugs. Stopped into Wal-Mart and picked up two five packs of Federal Power-shok 1 oz slugs, figured I would chrono a couple, and shoot the rest at target to get a comparison. WHAT a mess, leaded the barrel BAD! I take it these are unlubed and not made to shoot in a rifled barrel. Tried shooters choice lead remover for an hour or so, got some of it but left a whole bunch. Quick trip to the dollar store to get Chore Boy pads, after about a hundred strokes and 1 full pad it was gone. Guess I should've bought a couple boxes of the sabot slugs to try, hell I can load 200-300 slugs for the price of two boxes!
Scooter :wink: :cry: :oops: :shock:

[Willbird]

I know the slugs you describe lead the heck out of a smooth bore, what about wiping a bead of lube into the roll crimp before firing ??


Bill

[swheeler]

Bill; I'm sure it couldn't hurt, but I think this is probably the last time I'll fire them in the rifled barrel. I may buy a box or two of the sabot slugs, just to see how they shoot. Scooter

[Safeshot]

If you load your own slugs for the 12 gage, you might want to try the "Lee" slugs in a plastic shot cup. They work quite well in most rifled barrels and you only have to clean out the "plastic" residue (which is easier than cleaning out lead).

[swheeler]

Safeshot: thats the ones I load, just wanted something to compare them to. Scooter

[44man]

I use the Lyman wasp waist slug in a WW red wad and AA cases. Very-very accurate. MUCH better then the Lee slug. I have a Remington 870 with the Hastings barrel.
Aother great slug is the Sabot technologies hammer head and now Hastings has a very accurate slug that will touch all shots at 75 yd's.

[beagle]

Same deal with me on the Lyman sabot slugs. No leading and right fair accuracy from a smooth 18.5 barrel in a Remington 870.

Occasionally, there will be some plastic fouling from the wads but Ed's red takes that right out./beagle

[swheeler]

Beagle and 44; I'm not satisfied with this Lee slug in the rifled barrel, 50 yd groups are larger with the rifled barrel than with the smoothbore, 5 3/8 compared to 4 in. The wads I found look like the rifled barrel is taking all 4 petals off, maybe rifling isn't actually spinning the slug? Would either of you care to share your loads?I've tried AA hulls, STS and FC gold Medal, AA wads and F114, Herco and WSF around 1450 fps. These loads worked pretty :?: good in the 18.5 in cyl bore scoped, I expected an accuracy improvement with a rifled barrel? At one time I tried moly coated wads-in the smoothbore-couldn't tell much difference. Maybe a new mold is all I need!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Scooter

[7br]

Beagle and 44; I'm not satisfied with this Lee slug in the rifled barrel, 50 yd groups are larger with the rifled barrel than with the smoothbore, 5 3/8 compared to 4 in. The wads I found look like the rifled barrel is taking all 4 petals off, maybe rifling isn't actually spinning the slug? Would either of you care to share your loads?I've tried AA hulls, STS and FC gold Medal, AA wads and F114, Herco and WSF around 1450 fps. These loads worked pretty :?: good in the 18.5 in cyl bore scoped, I expected an accuracy improvement with a rifled barrel? At one time I tried moly coated wads-in the smoothbore-couldn't tell much difference. Maybe a new mold is all I need!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Scooter

From the old shooters.com board. This load came from Smoker

HS-6 38.2 grains w/gray 7/8 oz wad, no filler. Adjust the press so that a minimal amount of pressure gives the proper length for a good crimp. As usual, all is never perfect so try not to use the ones that don't crimp well. Can't pove it but don't think they will group as well. Good luck Mark, let me know how you did. Smoker AKA Phil G. PS chron'd @ ~1425 to 1450, you got the drop stats :).

With my Rem 870, my wife can keep 3 slugs on a paper plate at 75yards from standing with this load. Off of a bench, I recollect they did at 3in at the same range. All shooting was done with open sights. My nephew swears by them. By the way, I've got to see if that rascal still has my slug barrel.

[StarMetal]

swheeler,

I had this intemittant problem with the Lyman wasp waist slug in 20ga. The gun was a H&R heavy barrel slug shotgun in 20ga with scope. It would shoot groups of about 1 1/2 at 100 yds, sometimes holes cutting one another to groups that didn't even hit the paper!!!!! I was at wits end. I had all this information, but still not getting anything from it. One day I was talking to fellow at the Hornady ballistic tech lab and I mentioned it to him. When I said I would find the wads on the ground in tack, the groups were good, when I would find pedals missing off the wads, the groups were bad. that prompted the question from him "How many times fired are the casings?" I said anywhere's from one to three or four. He goes yup, that's it. He goes on to say he's argued this with skeet shooters for years. What is happening is the new hull is very smooth inside, it releases the wad without much resistance. After about two firing the inside is scorched from the powder heat and is rough. Sure enough he's right. He said try this, take a new shell apart and you can pluck the wad out easily, He said try that with one that's been reloaded three or more times and he said you would damage the wad trying to pull it out. He was right. When I switched to just reloading either new or once fired hulls the problem went away. If you're finding wads with pedals missing that's a sign.

Joe

[swheeler]

Joe; at one time I tried moly coating the wads to make them slip out of the hull easier, didn't see any difference, but now all my hulls have been fired aleast a couple of times, could be affecting it. But I still am getting better 50yd accuracy out of the old smoothbore than with the new rifled barrel?????? BASSACKWARD. pondering it today and thinking maybe this barrel needs a little time to smooth-up, but doesn't really try to grab a patch or anything. I can round up some once fired AA hulls and give them a try! I also saw some Lyman 525 gr slugs on e-bone, or somewhere, may try that too.100 yard minute of paper plate is all I want!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
7BR: thanks for the data, but looking at the charge of HS6 that must be for the 7/8 oz slug, I'm shooting the 1 oz Lee.
Maybe I'll turn them around and load em base first, then when they go past the 50 yard mark they'll turn back around and be goin' nose first!!!!
Scooter :wink:

[Greg5278]

I've got the slug for you, one of my 770-775 grain Truncated cone bullets with .525" Metplat. You lube them up, and they are full bore to engage the rifling. The slugs in a wad are not properply stabilized, they tend to shear most wad petals. Some heavier wall wads may work, But I gave up after several years of fooling with them. The modern rifled barrels are only made to shoot Sabots, the twist rate of 1 in 28 to 1in 36 is way too fast. You really need a 1 in 60 or slowere with non sabot type slugs. Acceptable accuracy is possible with full bore slugs as long as there is sufficient bore contact. My 770 grain slug has been pushed to 1400FPS for 3300 Foot-Pounds of energy.

I have 5 12 gauge slug molds, 4 of which I designed. You can also try Rapine Molds for a hollow base slug, but it will Yaw from a rifled barrel. Greg S

[swheeler]

GREG; I'll keep you in mind, but still have a lot of avenues to explore. Some people posting here are getting good accuracy out of these wad(sabot) loaded slugs. I just went and picked up 250 3" R-P factory primed, unskived hulls .Those 700+ gr would be good for gophers and such!
Scooter :P

[Greg5278]

Hey guys, my new 12 gauge project was hopefully proofed today with the new barrel. It is made to shoot only the full bore cast slugs, either solids or hollow base. It sports a 24" full Octagon barrel that is 1" across the flats with a 1 in 84 twist. The barrel has 8 narrow lands, and a radius at the land/groove juncture. I am anxiously waiting to fire groups with it. I will first have to shoot it in to get rid of the burrs, as it was not lapped. The chamber is a full custom job, and is for slugs only. There is no forcing cone, and it is cut to minimum tolerances for Fiocchi hulls. I will let you know how it works. Hopefully the stock will be done within a month, and I can have it finished, but in the white. Greg S

[shunka]

Has anyone thought to try the all brass shotgun shells? I am getting some in 12 ga to try in a double for "cowboy" shooting. My intent was actually to have shells that are more "historically correct" for circa 1870, but if the brass shell releases the wad more smoothy....

best
shunka

[lar45]

Greg, what kind of gun is your 12 bore?
Any pics?

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Best of all, if you could get them, as well as traditional, might be paper shells, since they have less of a step in diameter from shell to bore.

When a rifled bore is less accurate than a smooth one, it is usually a concentricity problem. I would indeed favour a bare, grooved and lubed bullet of groove diameter in a rifled bore, and if that was still undersize for being properly aligned by the case, I think you could glue stout paper inside a paper case. For a smoothbore, though, I think the advantages of a sleeve wad are hard to pass up. I got pretty good results long ago from a 16g. round ball so treated in a 12g. - better by far than the unswaged Lyman slug, which was too big to treat that way, and too small for use on its own. If slugs made to be used with sleeves or sabots improve on that, they should be good.

[Buckshot]

..............When Mag-Tech (Brazilian, dist by Graf) announced they were going to change from Berdan to Boxer primers in their 12, 20 & 410 brass shells, I thought it would be way cool to get one of the Savage 12 guage bolt action shotguns with their rifled barrels. I figured you could set it up as a large bore rifle. Obviously it would be set up for plastic hulls which are somewhat thicker then the brass ones. Maybe just ramp down the step that's in the front of the chamber.

That idea passed through my skull again when my cousin suggested I go wild pig hunting with them in the Santa Ana river bottom. What a magnificent cartridge that would make! Big ole brass case and a 700 gr FN paper patched slug sticking out!

I got over the initial sweating and desire.

..............Buckshot

[Greg5278]

My rifled gun project is built on an Ithaca fully threaded 37 action. the barrel is free Floated. It does not touch anything except the receiver. I also have a custom rifled Ithaca that is not threaded. It is Locktited, and is very particular about how you hold it. I have taken deer with it at 141 yards with a sabot, once you refine your hold. The Ithaca action is excellent for slugs, as a scope or sight can be drilled and tapped to the receiver.

As for the slug loads you mentioned, I would use hollow base only in smoothbores. Use a solid base design in rifled bores, and take full advantage of the rifling. The plastic can not grab the rifling as well as hard lead. If you look at some calculations for rifling twist, the modern barrels are way too fast. Old paradox guns were not any faster than 1 in 60, while most were 1 in 100. Use the greenhill formula, and you can see the wad petas don't have much hope at rifling engagement. I have no probels with any of my solid base slugs in the rifled guns. The recovered slugs all show full engagement.
Greg S

[cjensen]

I shot a bunch of lead slugs in a hastings rifled barrel. Leaded it up so bad I traded it to someone willing to clean it out.

[Huntsman]

Hmmmm, 2016 going into 2017 and people are still shooting smoothbore designed "Foster" slugs thru their rifled shotgun barrels and complaining about the barrel getting leaded up..... :coffeecom
:kidding::lol:

Here's my experience with the Lee Drive key slug fired form a Remington 870 with rifled barrel;

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?313561-Lee-Drive-Key-12-gauge-1oz-load-success!!

As for your Mossberg rifled barrel. Is It ported? These will do a nasty job on the wad if shooting Lee slugs which will affect accuracy.

[Jamez]

Has anyone tried Powder Coating shotgun slugs. Im new to the whole casting game, so if thats a horrendously stupid question i apologize. What I've read on PC seems to be more about higher velocity, but i dont see why it wouldn't cut down leading. Im in the process of setting up a shotgun with a rifled choke for use on pigs, and id really like a heavy hollow point with as deep a cavity as possible. My thought was to make a mould to cast a straight sided cup , then use a variation of a point forming die (swaging) to get a more aerodynamic 'bullety-looking' shape. But lube grooves would remove any chance of me making my own mould and reduce weight. Is there any sense behind all this gibberish or is it just uneducated ramblings with no actual grounding in reality.

[cpileri]

Worthy of a try, Jamez

[Cap'n Morgan]

I think you'll run into trouble if you want to make a slug that somewhat resembles a boolit (aerodynamic shape and hollow point) unless you use a dedicated rifled slug barrel. Anyway, a slug doesn't need to expand - it's plenty big as it is - and a hollow point will seriously weaken the slug and reduce penetration.

Efficient and accurate home made slugs are not easy to make - trust me on this! It can be done, but unless you're dedicated to the cause (read: Nuts! [smilie=1:) you'll be better off with store bought ammo. If you still want to give it a try, I would suggest round balls. Many members in here have had great results with those and they have accumulated a wealth of knowledge which is free for asking (and searching)

As for PC'ing slugs; due to laziness I have never tried it (my own slugs are more or less self-cleaning due to a rather hard wad), but it would certainly be feasible and some manufacturers do it.

[bstone5]

I powder coat slugs, the Lee and the Lyman, the slugs are shot in a rifled barrel H&R single shot.
The Lee are shot with the plastic wad cut down, the Lyman are all inside the plastic wad.
The Lyman hollow base slug shoots very good, the Lee age good but give a large group.
I have shot wild hogs with both up close, the high weight slug usually drops them quick if shot in the head.

[Jamez]

Thanks for the info, it hadn't really sunk that a hollow point was relatively unnessesary. I'll see if i can get some round balls loaded up, start from there. I found a mob in Australia afterwards that make moulds for 12 gauge hollow points to work in paradox type barrels, but they have a sizeable groove in them. If i get the urge to experiment later on, i might see if they can make up a mould for me. Or at least try their mould. I might leave the powder coating until im doing 3 or 4 different boolits, so if doesn't work for one it should work for the others.