having 9mm glock issues had an idea

[Drew P]

Troubled glock needs help. I purchased new gun few months ago, put a mag or two of store bought fmj through and then got to casting. Started HItek coating at same time. Having bad leading and trying to find the issue. I've gone through a lot of the typical sticking points on 9mm loading with slugging, expanding, etc all covered. But one thing I'm wondering is the throat of the chamber, where the sharp edge exists. Is it possible that such a new gun has too sharp edge from never getting smoothed by fmj? I feel like maybe it's scraping off my coating as it enters barrel or something.

[Forrest r]

Take the glock to the range with a couple mags full of your pc'd reloads. Shoot 2 rounds and eject a round/shoot 2 rounds & eject a round. Keep doing that for 2 full mags, then inspect the ejected rounds for scraping.

I have yet to get any leading in any firearm when using pc'd bullets. I'm talking 20+ firearms in several different calibers using 30+ different cast bullets.

500+ rounds of pc'd bullets down the tube of a 9mm, this is what the bbl looked like.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/crown_zpsbapei3xm.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/crown_zpsbapei3xm.jpg.html)

1 wet patch of hoppe's #9 and 1 dry patch later the bbl is clean. No brushes, no mops, nothing but 2 cotton patches.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/clean9mmbbl_zpsr0hl0elp.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/clean9mmbbl_zpsr0hl0elp.jpg.html)

I have no idea how you setup your bullets for your bbl. I typically use this method.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/thunk20test20bbl20pic_zps307e474a.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/thunk20test20bbl20pic_zps307e474a.jpg.html)

Myself I like to set the oal's up so they look like the (OK Normal headspace). Most people see the "Best accuracy" and set their oal's so the case is flush with the hood. Between the differences in the thickness of the pc coating (changes where the bullets nose contacts the the leade of the bbl) and the differences in the oal's in the reloading process itself. Setting the oal just below flush takes all those differences out of play.

While the oal's aren't setup for "Max accuracy", there's also no bullet scraping, nose deforming or mis-alignment of the bullet/bbl going on or leading issues either. Consistency in the name of the game, not a hand picked cherry target by any means. This is the actual test target I used to test loads in that 1911/9mm pictured above. A 10-shot group @ 50ft.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/ro9mm50ft_zpslprjmumk.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/ro9mm50ft_zpslprjmumk.jpg.html)

The factory throat in the 1911/9mm bbl.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/9mmchamberleade_zpsecwhgkdb.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/9mmchamberleade_zpsecwhgkdb.jpg.html)

You might want to pull a couple bullets and measure them to see if they are getting swaged down in the reloading process. A picture of a lyman m-die.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/expander9mmdepth_zpse6fc7qfk.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/expander9mmdepth_zpse6fc7qfk.jpg.html)

Myself I use .358" bullets anymore in the 9mm's for no other reason than I can use the same bullets in the 9mm/38spl/357 this way. I use nothing more than an el-cheapo set of lee 9mm dies to reload the 9mm's. The lee expander plug is designed to be used with the shorter/smaller in diameter jacketed bullets and does an excellent job with them. But it is a poor choice for the longer/larger lead bullets. A factory expander plug next to a custom plug I made to reload the 9mm's.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/8121ce53-92ea-4a46-bdf0-b874c87f442d_zpsunjrpvqq.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/8121ce53-92ea-4a46-bdf0-b874c87f442d_zpsunjrpvqq.jpg.html)

If you're getting leading from pc'd bullets you have some how mechanically broke thru/scrapped the coating off of the bullets. I've shot pc'd bullets in a 308 with 50,000+psi loads and had no leading issues. Those 35,000+psi 9mm loads should be a walk in the park.

[Wayne Smith]

Drew, if you have a sharp edged throat contact DougGuy. He will fix you up.

[44man]

Isn't Glock rifling different then a 1911? I don't know, have neither but friends shoot cast from 1911's all the time.

[Spector]

Why not carefully load single rounds into the chamber. That should tell you if feeding from the magazine is causing any scraping. If you find no leading then you are on the right track in your thinking.

Mike

[HATCH]

your not having any issues with feeding, firing, or extracting correct?
Sounds like your problem is with leading at the throat of the barrel.

What is your lead hardness (your mix?)
What power/load are you using
What weight bullet?

[Drew P]

Thanks for the replies! It's apparent that I havent provided nearly enough info for you to help. Here goes with more details:

-barrel is glock "polygonal" yes it's a glock thing not like 1911 or even like other polygon barrels.
-Barrel mirror clean between tests
-slugged .3565" (quality calipers, not mic)
-hitek coated 3 thin coats, baked 15 minutes @ 400°
-mihec 135gr HP no lube grooves
-95/4/1 lead alloy approximately.
-custom lee push through sizer opened to .3575
-Custom Hornady PTX lengthened and stepped like M die, prevents swaging
-loaded 3.2gr red dot
-mixed range brass
-100% functioning well
-Dillon die set

what I'm trying now is aging the bullets for two weeks to make sure properly aged, plus increasing load to 3.4gr possibly. I like softer shooting loads but it seems most people use a lot closer to 4.0 red dot. What I'm wondering about on lead alloy is why would it matter with the coating? In my experience with PC softer is okay because the coating keeps everything separated well. But I'm new to hitek and have been PC up till this gun. I'm also going to re slug the barrel and dig out the mic to measure.

[reddog81]

Why 3 coats of hitek? I've never used it but 3 coats seems odd. I'd try some powder coated bullets and see if the problem is still there.

[Drew P]

They say 2 coats is the minimum and that thinner coats are better, like thinnest possible, so I tried that and added an aluminum xtra coat.

[gsdelong]

I shoot pc in glock 9mm,40,10mm and 45 with out any problem. My first guess is it is too thick/or oversized boolit and not well bonded and the coating is being peeled or striped off, I would think to get the leading you describe it has no coating by the end of the barrel.

My first step would be a hundred or more rounds of fmj down the barrel to elimate the sharp edge theory.

[Walkingwolf]

Have you done a hammer test yet on your Hitek bullets? If they are failing the test you are doing something wrong in the process.

I have used Hitek Bayou Bullets in a Glock 22 with absolutely no leading, and the barrel swabs clean, no scrubbing.

[Drew P]

Yes they hammer out just fine.

[sutherpride59]

You could try fire lapping it with a very fine media. A fire lapping kit is never a bad investment and wouldn't hurt the gun even if the throats wasn't the problem, again using the fine media set up to polish the barrel.

[Forrest r]

I wouldn't think it's the alloy I typically cast my pistol bullets with nothing more than range scrap made in 100# batches. The bhn varies from batch to batch & are typically in the 8bhn to 10bhn range with most of it in the 8bhn/9bhn range. + add to that the heating process used to cure the coating heats the bullets enough to anneal the alloy making them softer.

I've shot .356" sized bullets/8bhn/pc'd/p+ loads in a taurus pt111 that bbl sluged out @ .358" and had no tumbling/leading/nada. Just holes in paper.

At the end of the day the only way to get leading with a coated bullet is to break/scratch off the coating.

[TexasGrunt]

Try a larger boolit. +.001 is the minimum for a cast boolit.

[ioon44]

In 9 mm I have the best results with 6-2-92 alloy and 2 coats of Hi-Tek sized to .3575", you just need to keep trying different alloys to see what your gun likes best as not all barrels are the same.

[scattershot]

Just a thought, if you have an inadequate flare on the case mouth you may be scraping the coating off as you seat the bullet.

[sigep1764]

Can we see what one of your finished boolits looks like?

[9mmsteel]

https://youtu.be/iLN5xsZlaaE

[Dusty Bannister]

9mmsteel, I do not know what caliber that pistol is that is shown in the video. But, my 40 cal barrel is not cut in that manner. The "groove" or major diameter appears to have been formed, and then the lands, which appear as inward formed arches, are the result of forging of the barrel. There are no "flats" in the rifling. Perhaps this is caliber specific, or perhaps the method of rifling have changed through time.

[DougGuy]

Well, first off, no hundred rounds will have any effect on the throat, and neither will firelapping with fine abrasive. The Glock barrel is through and through tennifer hardened, they soak them in a liquid salt bath at over 1500F so you aren't going to do any amount of wearing on the barrel by the methods mentioned, these barrels are incredibly hard. I had to have carbide reamers custom ground to throat these hardened barrels, and they only get about 10 barrels on them and they are toast. A $300 custom made reamer has chunks torn out of the cutting flutes looks like alligator got hold of it.

If the leade in to the rifling or the edge of the chamber is sharp enough to cut through the coating, I can fix that by reaming the throat. I like a longer throat, with gently tapered freebore and a 1 degree leade in to the rifling, it's the smoothest possible transition from case mouth to bore, as long as your finished diameter does not exceed .358" you will be happy with it.

[308Jeff]

Subscribing

[garym1a2]

I have good results with powder coat and my Glock 19 factory barrel. I have not good results with Hitek. I would not ream out a harden glock barrel to make it work. Buy a cheap lone wolf barrel is a good option.

[9mmsteel]

Dusty Bannister, @ 3:30 & 12:18 Glock 21, .45 cal. was Published Nov. 2013 ""I do not know what caliber that pistol is that is shown in the video""
Must not of watched all the video.? My point was...if whoever reloads a "block" be careful with factory barrels. KABOOM!!!!
With your comment ""which appear as inward formed arches"" in the video FortuneCookie45LC mentions "hills and valleys" to the polygonal barrel, the glocks factory barrel.

Noticed your not commenting on the feed ramp and how the boolit isn't supported. Hmm...Bulge...Reload..KABOOM..!!

Blocks or Glocks $ over priced $ and $ need additional upgrades $ to compete with other manufactures qualities.

Be safe was my point of reply!....also in his video.

[Dusty Bannister]

I try to address only one issue at a time to avoid confusion. The point, my factory barrel rifling is not what is represented in the drawing.

[9mmsteel]

[emoji848]Your confusion is brought on by yourself. [emoji15]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rototerrier]

You have the glock polygonal rifling. Trust me when I say that it's not the glock or the rifling that's causing you trouble. It's the hitek coating. Turn your focus away from the gun and barrel.

Something is wrong with your coating. I was never able to get consistent Hitek results and finally gave up on it. 1 coat of PC will work fine. I've also found a bhn of at least 16 also helps. I've had trouble with 9mm and too soft of an alloy. I tried pure range scrap and stick on wheel weights and got a little leading.

What works for me in a glock 19.

1) Alloy is approximately 92-6-2 and I get around 16bhn air cooled. I achieve this mixture by combining Stick on Wheel weights with RotoMetals Super Hard and some tin. It's not exact, but it's what I shoot for using the excel alloy calculator and it tests to the desired hardness.
2) MP 357-125 with lube grooves removed. Final weight 130hp or 135fp.
3) PC with Smokes Red, Blue, Black, White, Green, Yellow or Orange or All Powder Paints Super Durable Black or Powder By The Pound Super Durable Wet Black. All of these work perfectly.
4) Dry Tumble with black Airsoft BB's and bake at PID controlled 400F in Convection Oven for 20 minutes.
5) Water Drop out of the oven. This hardens them up just a little more, but I do it for speed. I don't like to wait around. I get them dried and sized while another batch is in the oven.
6) Size to .358. I've tried both .357 and .358 and found accuracy, for me, was better at .358.
7) I use a noe expander plug to ensure I get consistent case expansion and flaring and eliminates any possibilities of shaving when seating. If you size to .358 you'll want to use his .361x.357 and if you size to .357 then go down one more to the .360x.356. I've also found his expansion plugs are a little too long for 9mm and only use the case expansion portion. I stop just before it flares. I then have a powder thru expander on my powder drop to do the final flare. If you go too deep with the NOE it will bulge the case. NOE is aware and has created a special plug for 380 auto but haven't yet made a special shorter version for 9mm.
8) I seat and crimp in a separate step to also ensure I get no shaving and/or breaking of the coating.
9) My load is 4.0-4.4 of HP38. It's nothing special and certainly not a hot load but it just works.

This also works in my Walther PPQ M2 9mm with true polygonal rifling and works in a Lone Wolf barrel for my glock with conventional rifling. No leading and that's all 3 common types of rifling.

[Drew P]

Interesting. Well I'm trying to get into hitek because I wasn't satisfied with results of tumble
pc and I'm not into spraying either. Somid really like to exhaust all options.

Im happy to see that you differentiate between glock polygonal and true polygonal because glock polygonal is plainly not polygonal at least in my new gen 3 g19. But, I'm still scratching my head as to why the barrel shape would cause such issues?
I'm still experimenting and need to try some suggestions put forth earlier by kind fellows. Dusty banister has gone through a lot of info for me and food for thought.