30-03 Help

[kodiak1]

Anyone out there have or know of a website where one can compare a 30-03 to a 30-06 Case and see what the real difference is?
Bought an 1895 Win in 30-03 and it does shoot 30-06 but by the bulge of the primers look like a head case issue but am wondering if it isn't more of a bigger difference in the brass's than I suspected.
Thanks Ken.

[Pavogrande]

According to Mack - Cartridge case measurements - the 30/03 has a overall case length of
2.554 inches, the 30/06 is 2.490 inches. The major difference being in the length of the neck. The 30/03 was designed to use the then existing 220gr 30/40 bullet.
30/03 rim .471, base .469, shoulder .450, neck .338, length 2.554
30/06 rim .473, base .470, shoulder .441, neck .340, length 2.490
Since both cartridges headspace off a datum line the .009 difference at the shoulder should not matter.
Have you checked the rifle for headspace? Rough check - add a .010 shim behind a new case and see if the breech will close.

[kodiak1]

Just shot ten rounds out of it and nothing else.
I am going to try the shim thing tomorrow for sure.
Thanks Pavogrande.
Ken.

[Reloader06]

Very cool. Pix please.

[floodgate]

Just to add to the confusion, the .30-'03 was briefly also known as the ".30-45". I have an Ideal No. 2 re- and decapper and a couple of Armory dies so-marked.

floodgate

[scrapcan]

Kodiak1,

if you still have issues just open case neck up to next larger caliber and then create a false shoulder and do a bit of fire forming. That is an interesting rifle/cartridge combo you found, make sure you enjoy it.

[kodiak1]

floodgate I did read that also when I was checking things out.

manleyjt you old hounddog glad to see you are still alive. I may have to try that after I try the feeler gauge thing.

Will try to post pics when the daughter comes home and takes some for me.

Ken.

[scrapcan]

Ken,

If you have time and inclination you might want to pull the old rifle down and give it a good cleaning and an inspection. Some of the old well used ones will get slopy in the headspace department. Using the false shoulder and fireforming helped a coworkers 1895. he also found that the bore was large, he is not a caster so we opted for the next best thing 311 bullets for the 303 brit.

How is that big mould treating you? I kept the cast slugs form it and I am in awe every time I walk by them. 50 cal is rather large.

[kodiak1]

That mould has a few bullets dropped out of it. Cast one of them gallon coffee cans full last winter and have only a few left. That 50-90 really likes them.
Thanks again one of the sweetest deals I have been involved in.

Yes she will get pulled down this winter and get a good going over.
Thanks Ken.

[missionary5155]

People were known to rechamber these to 30-06 as the supplies of -03 dried up... any new barrel markings under the handguard..

[kodiak1]

Nope, took that lookey see first thing. Was told it was original and checked for markings.
Thanks Ken.

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Ken, I'm feeling in a benevolent mood. I'll swap you out a pre-64 Win. 94 in .30-30 with no headspace problems. I'll even pay the shipping both ways. What more can you ask for?
Morgan

[kodiak1]

Morgan got me the whole family of them Hex Barreled 25-35, 30-30, 32, 32-40 and 38-55 The newest is 1911 the oldest is 1898. All are in very nice shape and shoot really well.

Thanks anyway Ken.

[357maximum]

http://stevespages.com/page8d.htm


There ya go for the 06 part anyway

[scrapcan]

Ken,

I think the 30-03 has a longer headspace by about .o7 as near as I can tell from my reference material on the book shelf. Not sure but you may have to use 270 or 280 brass to try to form some brass for testing or use the false shoulder technique.

I have the collectors series book for the win 94 and 95 in a single volume if you need any info out of it.

On a different note, a neighbor had a krag in 30-03 and with the right ammunition it shot really well. Took us a while to figure that one out. He had carried that rifle in a scabbard for half a lifetime and had no idea he was using the wrong ammunition (30-06). Just about the time we figured things out, he was hit with parkinsons and then alzheimers. I miss Kip very much as he was one of the old breed and was official US mounted Cav from Fort Riley, and yes that was mounted cav on a ride with four feet and hair.

Jeremy

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Didn't think the Krag was a candidate for an "03 or "06. The larger rim dia. and shorter overall length of the .30-40, .545" & 3.07" vs. .473" & 3.34" of the '06 would cause bolt face problems(extractor, ejection), and feeding problems even if the longer round would fit in the magazine. Were they ever arsenal refitted for the larger cartridges?
Morgan

[scrapcan]

Morgan,

I was not sure it was possible either until we did a chamber cast. The barrel was marked 30US, which should have been 30-40 correct? But none of the measurements of the rifle would allow for that cartridge. I was shocked when the old gent said he had been shooting 30-06 in it. He was not sure about the particulars as he had forgotten most of the details by that time (he was in his early 70's and i was in my early 20's).

[floodgate]

Actually, the term ".30 US" was used for all three cartridges (.30-40, .30-'03 and .30-'06) at various times around 1895 - 1915. For example, Marlin marked their Ideal No. 3 (.30-40) and No. 10 (.30-'03/'06) tong tools with the same stamp during their ownership 1910-15; I have examples of both.

But it's hard to see how the longer rimless cartridges could feed through the Krag magazine without considerable modification.

Floodgate

[kodiak1]

So did the old fella use 270 for his base brass to build on?
Ken.