Primer malfunction

[Shuz]

A Remington 2-1/2 primer failed to ignite recently. The case was a new Starline 44 mag. Upon inspection, the powder was unburned and was of nominal weight 8.5g Green Dot. The primer showed quite a dent from being stricken by several 44 mag revolvers and a 44 mag rifle. I carefully de-capped the primer and expected to see a missing anvil. However, the anvil was there and there appeared to be the normal red priming compound mixture under the anvil. I then reseated the primer in a Winchester .44 mag case and the primer still did not fire. In over 46 years of handloading, I've never experienced this before, and I'm not wringing my hanky over it, just sitting and trying to figger out what happened. Any suggestions?--Shuz

[docone31]

I do not use Remington primers for that reason.
The only primer misfires have been Remington.
I have been in the past really sloppy with primers. I mean sloppy! Shoving primers into military primer pockets, without removing the crimp, tipped primers, dented primers.
Only squibs were with Remington Primers.
Why did it happen? I never figuired it out either. I just switched brands.

[Bass Ackward]

Really? I suppose that I see it more often than I should. Within the last year, I have had this with Winchester, Remington, and Federal which are the only brands used in the past year.

Primer material has to dry out to work. I am assuming that these primers are .... fresher these days because of demand. And maybe a wet spot got trapped or something.

[sundog]

I had a CCI 200 fail to fire last Saturday at the mil bolt match. New style CCI packaging, so it couldn't be all that old. Struck it thrice. After the first, I pulled the bolt expecting to see a stuck boolit, but the cartridge extracted intact. I pulled the boolit when I came home. I haven't decapped the brass yet, but powder was charged correctly and not burned at all.

Many years ago I had two factory .32 Win Spl cartridges ftf IN A ROW while aiming at a nice muley doe up near Paonia, CO. Talk about really frustrating! Both were dented nicely, and neither fired later when tried again. All others in the box fired.

Over the last several years I have come to prefer Rem LR primers for mil bolt matches - never had one ftf.

[felix]

Federal and CCI changed cup composition for the last several lots. They said, via email, that the mixtures were the same as before. They are supposed to be mil spec all the way, now. Maybe Rem is going down the same road with their new lots too. So, who really knows if the current lot of any brand will shoot the same as the old 1995 lots. It seems primers are made every 10 years or so in tremendous numbers. Apparently, they are not made on "demand", but acquired from alternate warehouses, including those from outside of this country when required. ... felix

[Firebird]

normal red priming compound mixture

Are you looking at the priming compound, or the foil cover over the compound? Sounds to me you are looking at the foil cover. Have you taken the primer apart - removed anvil and foil? My guess is that there isn't any priming compound under the foil, which is why the primer didn't go off.

[Reloader06]

Another possibility is contamination, drop of sweat, oil,etc. Could happen anywhere in the process, manufacturing, packageing, reloading. My half nickel.

Matt

[Duce]

I would not use anything to reload by Remington. Set aside I have never used there primers. The reason I will not is in the past I have purchased Remington Ammo, 8MM Mauser ect. and have had them fail to fire. Sometimes 5 or 6 out of a box of 20. I decided then about 15 years ago not to buy there products.

[runfiverun]

ftf's used to be common with rem shotshells also.
i will not use rem primers for shotgun, and i donot like cci pistol primers, i have had too many hang /non fires.
i do like rem rifle primers though.

[Boerrancher]

In my experience all of my ftf's have been because I failed to get all of the case lube off of my hands before I handled the primers. I was shocked at how quickly a bit of oil not even noticeable would ruin a primer if it came in contact with it. When I started washing my hands well between wiping the case lube off and seating the primers all of my misfires went away. When I use my auto prime tool, I am not as picky because the primers never come in contact with my fingers.

Best wishes from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

[ForneyRider]

I had issues myself with CCI primers in large rifle magnum.
They wouldn't go off but are dimpled.
I have no issues with the Federal primers I use in this gun.
I have no issues with the CCI primers in other rifles.

So I figure that my firing pin is not hitting the primer hard enough. I had my bolt body replaced and will take the gun back to 'smith to adjust.

[Handgunr]

Out of concern, and frustration regarding this topic, I contacted CCI's tech dept. about this a few years ago. Back then I was using CCI's a lot more, and after having ftf's during a couple of hunting episodes, as well as during load development, I figured I'd better get to the bottom of it for my own satisfaction. It was happening a lot more (and at the worst times) than I cared to deal with.

My primers are kept in a moistureproof container with silica gel dessicant bags. I never touch them with bare hands. If I drop one, it get's picked up with tweezers. So, if it was something I was doing wrong, it was just with CCI's and none of any other brand.

As luck would have it, I got a very knowledgible plant supervisor on the phone when I contacted CCI. After a good long period of giving the details of my problem. He stopped me and told me flat out....."within the acceptable industry tolerances regarding primer cup sizing, CCI (we) produce cups on the upper end of those standards/tolerances". Meaning bigger diameters.

So, I reiterated, if I were to seat one of your primers in a primer pocket that was too tight, theoretically, it could damage it, correct ?" He said, more or less, that when that scenario exists, you could technically "fracture" the priming compound/pellet, and it would, or could fall into the powder charge, or more likely, be broken up enough so that the following primer strikes would fall on broken pieces instead of a solid.

CCI's have always been accused of having primer cups that were too hard......I've read this before on many forums. I mentioned that to him as well, and he said, "no, they are the same thickness as all the others, just slightly larger in diameter, or at the higher range of industry standards". At this point I quit using them and switched to Federal Match primers, I haven't had a misfire, or ftf to date.

Nothing against CCI's, and if they changed their manufacturing parameters, then great.

From what I got out of it, if your primer doesn't go off on the initial strike, but goes off on the 2nd.........the primer wasn't seated fully, and the anvil wasn't "armed". If it doesn't go off at all after the 2nd or 3rd strikes, it's either damaged as I indicated through my findings, or it has been (as said before) contaminated.

Hope this helps,
Bob

[dwtim]

I note that the anvil is seated almost flush with the cup on my Remington primers, so the "feel" when seating is a bit different than a CCI, where the legs under the anvil are compressed more. Most everyone here has more experience loading than me, so I had not previously dealt with this nor did it occur to me that there might be a problem.

I had one revolver that would fail-to-fire because the previous owner had installed a "ball-point pen" spring, as I like to call it. I had temporary relief when I switched to the Lee Autoprime II, which makes it easier for me to snug the primers in the pockets. My suspicion was that the energy of the lighter pin strikes was being absorbed by the cup as it moved inward -- in other words, the compound wasn't getting pinched hard enough. My S&W revolver (in the same caliber) hits very hard, and has never exhibited ignition problems of the aforementioned type.

I also note that most other brands of brass I use have pockets that are tighter than those on Remington brass, so I use mostly Remington now.

The above applies to pistol brass, and is only my hypothesis based on the symptoms and my examination of the primers.

[pjh421]

Handgunr
,

Thanks for the good info on CCI primer size. I have 2 or 3 Dillon primer mag tubes jammed with CCI primers that are probably useless now. They flow fine through the pickup tubes, just not the magazine tubes.

To use up my CCIs I use an RCBS tool.

Paul

[AZ-Stew]

The only FTFs I've had were about 30 years ago and involved CCI primers. I was using a Lee hand priming tool, the old one that had to be loaded one primer at a time, and as soon as I stopped handling the primers with my fingers and went to loading the tool with tweezers all the problems stopped. I've used CCI almost exclusively since then with no problems. CCI seems to be the brand that all the dealers have carried in the places I've lived. It's been difficult to get other brands until Sportsman's Warehouse moved in a year or two ago. When they have a good stock of primers, they have EVERYTHING. I'm waiting for them to get some Remington 7-1/2s in. I want to try them in my .223s and a .221 Fireball Remington Classic rifle I have. Some issues ago one of the gun mags (Handloader, Rifle??) had an article on primers and the Rem 7-1/2 was by far the most consistent in ignition. Too bad they don't make a LR benchrest primer. I'd like to have it for .22-250. The only problem I've ever had with Remington primers is that some of their LR primers (30 years ago) were a bit weak at the corner of the cup. Some of my loads that had worked with other primers would cause primer peircing at the corner and would actually result in small pits being torched into the bolt face, forming a ring around the firing pin hole. Otherwise they worked fine. The loads didn't exhibit any other signs of excess pressure.

In my opinion, it's not the brand. Something else is affecting performance. Check your loading process and see if there might be another reason for FTFs.

Regards,

Stew

[missionary5155]

Two days ago I had a Remington Large Pistol Primer fail to fire . 4 hammer strikes in my Colt New Service... and that is one heavy hammer fall. Removed Primer later and it was complete. Primer mixture was present and seemed correct.... But definately there was no ignition. Powder charge.. (9 gr. Unique) was present. I am no primer expert. This is the first failed large pistol primer I have had in years ???????

[Bass Ackward]

Two days ago I had a Remington Large Pistol Primer fail to fire . 4 hammer strikes in my Colt New Service... and that is one heavy hammer fall. Removed Primer later and it was complete. Primer mixture was present and seemed correct.... But definately there was no ignition. Powder charge.. (9 gr. Unique) was present. I am no primer expert. This is the first failed large pistol primer I have had in years ???????



I never touch my primers, but who knows what happened before you got them.

What will blow your mind is if you pull the bullet and let it air out for awhile and then fire it again and have it go off the first time. :grin:

I'd still have to say that the amount of primers that do manage too go off, complete failure rate is pretty small. It's the ones that go off and are all over the place that bug me.

[Shuz]

I dissassembled the Rem 2-1/2 that failed to fire and found a powder like substance below the "foil" held in place by the anvil. If there is supposed to be a pellet there, perhaps that was the problem. However I poured the primer powder on a steel plate and touched a match to it and it burned right up! It sparked a good bit and scorched the steel plate slightly. So...there we have it? Again, this is the only failure I've experienced in a long time. I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it, and will continue to use Rem 2-1/2 primers. At least they always flow freely thru my Dillon Square Deal B drop tube and don't "hang up" like CCI's.

[EMC45]

Only FTF I ever had was with CCI primers. It was their small pistol primer. I was shooting a 38 special and it failed to go off. Second time it went bang. I guess they are harder than what I usually use- Winchester.

[Bret4207]

My primer stock is all at least 35 years old. They all came from Dads gunshop and he died in '80. They've been stored in air tight containers and all seem to work about alike. I've never used a Remington primer that I recall, but I've had FTF in CCI and Federal. Most were in military Mausers and FP strike isn't much of any issue. I did have 9 FTF in a row in a #4 Remington in 32 S+W but am sure that was due to lube seepage. I used a Lee Auto Prime for years, wore out 2 and now use an RCBS unit. I also use a Ram Prime for certain calibers or for experimental work. Never had a FTF using the Ram Prime that I recall and I handle the primers wit me grubby mitts. All my FTF were with the Lee tool and all had the same issue. My Lee's would leave a half moon dimple in the primer when I seated it. Even with a primer cleaning tool used before I would get it. Large or small tools did it and they were 2 separate units. In my case it was a combination of slightly tight primer pockets/ slightly large primers and my almost super human grip strength! When I used a primer pocket uniformer with the Lee or used the Ram Prime or the RCBS I had no issues.

Just my experience as a ham handed handloader.

[The Dust Collector]

I still have many Herter's primers left and still use them. I also have CCI LRM primers in the old small red and white box made by Omark 35+ years old. They all still function as they should! I do keep them in a very secure and desiccated cabinet. Properly cared for primers last! I also have many Remington No. 1 1/2 SP used without any misfires.
But, as far as Remington goes, I will not but their 22 WMs again! Within one brick I had better than a 50% failure to fire. IMO they are junk!!! From what I understand since, that's common with their 22 WM's.