questions about bullet grain

[usmc0811]

I am currently trying to load up some of my cast bullets I made months back. I used a Lee 6 cavity 175 gr. .40 cal. TC bullet mold using wheel weights only. My question is this, they dropped heavier than 175gr which is normal from what I understand, they range from 180gr.-190gr. mostly 182-183gr. as you can see from my attached picture where I took 60 bullets and weighted each to show the range. I figured that would show a good enough example of what I'm working with. Do I need to sort them all out like this, I have hundreds? I have a canister of Bullseye powder and would like to use it. I have 3 manuals (Modern Reloading second edition, Speer Reloading Manual #14, and Lyman 49th edition). The Speer manual does not have any lead alloy load data so I will not be using that information. The Lyman and modern reloading manuals both have some data for lead alloy however its either not the right weight bullets or not the right powder. The Lyman manual shows 2 types of 175gr. lead bullets using Bullseye one with 4.2-5.1gr and another for 4.0-5.0gr the one is a TC bullet like I'm using however its for the 175gr bullet and all mine are over that. The modern reloading manual has data for a 180 gr. bullet using Bullseye but is not for a lead bullet or is not the right powder. Bottom line is im confused and don't want to load a bunch of the wrong stuff and hurt myself, anyone that can help I would appreciate it thanks.193747

[Reddirt62]

Got this and a 200 grain in lymans cast book.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170421/a4133917173c35dee8d80002633c636e.jpg

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[Oklahoma Rebel]

I just go by what the mold is rated for, but I'm not shooting competition or very long distance either. if I were doing either of those, I would load the 2-3 high spikes on your chart, and throw back ( to re-cast) the boolits whose weights are on the fringes, but don't mind me, im a lunatic,:happy dance:

[usmc0811]

I just go by what the mold is rated for, but I'm not shooting competition or very long distance either. if I were doing either of those, I would load the 2-3 high spikes on your chart, and throw back ( to re-cast) the boolits whose weights are on the fringes, but don't mind me, im a lunatic,:happy dance: "high spikes" you mean the 2-3 most consistant weights? and remelt the others. If so that would require me to weigh the rest of my bullets which im guessing is close to 1,000 of them. But I guess with such a wide range in weight that is my only choice. Man what a waste of time casting all them bullets just to find out that they are not consistent. I might just start buying my bullets already made and stop casting my own.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

oh, sorry, some people do weigh their boolits, thought you were one of those people, lol like I said I don't weigh mine, doesn't bother me any. the only time I would is if I were going to compete, which I have no interest in. good luck

[JSnover]

"high spikes" you mean the 2-3 most consistant weights? and remelt the others. If so that would require me to weigh the rest of my bullets which im guessing is close to 1,000 of them. But I guess with such a wide range in weight that is my only choice. Man what a waste of time casting all them bullets just to find out that they are not consistent. I might just start buying my bullets already made and stop casting my own.
They're really not that bad. Use the data posted by Reddirt62 and see how they shoot.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

I think you will find after casting a while you develop a "rhythm" and your boolits will be much more consistent. they will still be heavy, that's your alloy. I would use the data in the picture above, my "155gr" boolits for my sks drop I think 7-8grs heavier than that, I use the same load data still, not enough difference to be dangerous. keep at it, you'll get it in no time! Travis

[usmc0811]

They're really not that bad. Use the data posted by Reddirt62 and see how they shoot.
So if im using one of them 190 grain bullets with data for the 180gr bullet I wont have any issues as long as I keep it at the starting load data?

[GooseGestapo]

I have that same mold. I only throw back those that have obvious flaws. My 2 .40's are service grade guns so not match accurate. Weight variance of 2-4gr is insignificant.

I use 4.0gr of Bullseye. Max load that won't lead or cause accuracy to fall off in my M22 Glock. S&W "doesn't care"...It even likes them at 1,100+fps over a max load of LongShot. Kinda hard to hold onto though! (Shield).

[JSnover]

So if im using one of them 190 grain bullets with data for the 180gr bullet I wont have any issues as long as I keep it at the starting load data?
Yeah, you'll be fine. If those were my boolits I might call 4.7grains Bullseye a max load. I also might never see the need to go that high if they make me happy before I get to that point.

[usmc0811]

I have that same mold. I only throw back those that have obvious flaws. My 2 .40's are service grade guns so not match accurate. Weight variance of 2-4gr is insignificant.

I use 4.0gr of Bullseye. Max load that won't lead or cause accuracy to fall off in my M22 Glock. S&W "doesn't care"...It even likes them at 1,100+fps over a max load of LongShot. Kinda hard to hold onto though! (Shield).
But its not just 2-3 gr difference, its a range between 180-190gr (10gr gap) but most in the middle. I thought that the .40cal. was a high pressure round and needs to take caution while reloading them and that a few grains difference could mean the difference between a bang and a boom!! that they are not as easy as say a .45acp round to load up. Also what about the seating depth with different bullets, reddirt62 posted data for a 180gr FN to be seated at 1.130 O.A.L however I will be using a TC bullet. Not trying to argue with you or anyone else here as I have been getting the same response from everyone but just trying to be safe and figure all this out, Im still learning and just when I think I know what i doing I get smacked in the face with stuff like this that makes me feel like I don't know S#*t, kinda frustrates me. Thanks for all the help and trying to make sence of all this for me I would be totally lost even more that now if it wasn't for all you.

[reddog81]

Measure the diameter of the 190 grain bullets. I'd guess the mold wasn't all the way closed for those ones. Usually there's not a 10 grain spread.

[Scharfschuetze]

While not a perfect normal distribution, you have an example of the "Bell Curve" in your casting. While the spread is rather high it is a good example. That large spread can be corrected as noted in posts above.

While your plinking requirements are not demanding, I personally would recast everything left or right of the 182, 183 and 184 weights. Confidence in your ammo is part of good shooting and you'll always wonder if that round that didn't go to call was one of those heavy or light projectiles.

[usmc0811]

Measure the diameter of the 190 grain bullets. I'd guess the mold wasn't all the way closed for those ones. Usually there's not a 10 grain spread. yeah some have wings that probably add to the weight but after going through the re-sizer they flattened out fine but still maintain the extra weight.

[JSnover]

yeah some have wings that probably add to the weight but after going through the re-sizer they flattened out fine but still maintain the extra weight.
BINGO!
All you need to do is cast more. OklahomaRebel is right, once you get it dialed in that spread will be cut in half or better. My 500 grain 45-70 mold drops 498-503 and they shoot just fine.

[ascast]

ya know, lots of good advice here--if I were in your spot, I might carefully pack those shown away as weighed. I shoot some more, settle in on a load, brass etc. Then I pull these back out load and shoot to see if I could see any difference. Like the guys have said, you just need to cast more. Watch for splater on the mating faces and under the sprue cutter. check it every cycle. good luck

[JohnH]

After thinking of it, I really don't like my answer. First, I do very little sorting, If the base is sharp, no flaws and a boolit has only a minor wrinkle on the body or nose, I shoot it. I don't weigh sort and I certainly wouldn't weigh sort cast boolits that are only going to be shot up poking holes in paper or banging steel. A good test you might want to try sometime is load up a batch of boolits with various defects just to see how they will actually shoot. At 15-25 yards it takes a badly malformed boolit to miss a 16" x 16" piece of paper.

Same goes for boolit weight, takes a good bit of change to shift point of impact at handgun ranges.

That said, technically I wouldn't be surprised to see some pressure differences caused by 10 grains of boolit weight. Would those changes be enough to make a safe load unsafe? I doubt it. Proof loads will run between 125% to 150% of the SAAMI max pressure. If your 40 S&W runs at circa 35,000 psi then then increase of 25% in pressure is only going to take you 43750 psi I doubt would result in a kaboom, and I'd bet that lots of people do things like seat boolits deep, run boolits .003-.005 oversize run maximum charges in mixed brass and never rework a load when they get a fresh can of powder. I've seen data that supports the idea that lead makes for higher pressures than jacketed and I've seen data that undermines that idea, yet there is a well known gun writer who speaks of the phenomenon a couple time a year.

OK enough of that. What is safe? If your boolits weigh at 190 and you are concerned then either load using data for 200 grainers or at least research that data to see how much change there is for known changes in boolit weight, or follow the reloaders golden rule, start low and work up, find a load that is below maximum that functions the pistol and shoots well and use it. At least for that lot/run of boolits

[GhostHawk]

If you are truly concerned, here is an exercise that may give you some piece of mind.

Find a loading manual for your caliber, powder. Now compare the start loads for 2 bullets with fairly close weights. Preferably 4-6 grain difference. Now note the powder differences between those.

I am guessing you will find it is pretty small.

I had a brief fling with weighing bullets. It did not last long. When everything else was right I could see no difference between a bullet that was only a grain or 2 different.

But don't take my word for it, check it out for yourself. Do the due diligence. Educate yourself. While your at it you may decide you want to lower that start load half a grain. Or you may not. Unless your right on the edge of problems already, a grain or 2 should not push you over that edge

But if you are pushing max loads, that could be a different story.

[David2011]

USMC0811,

It's hard for me to get warm fuzzies using Bullseye in this cartridge. The margin of safety gets awfully small for me but it's a personal choice. As you noted it's a high pressure cartridge. I would (do) go for something a little slower.

I use the same mold for USPSA competition and get around 180 grain boolits. I have shot tens of thousands of them at USPSA Major with a little margin using Titegroup and a chronograph. The minimum velocity at 180 gr is 917 fps so I try to keep them at 940-945 fps. That's still about 100 fps below factory jacketed loads. I generally get about 8 reloads out of a cartridge before it splits. Nothing bad happens when they split; just put them in the scrap brass box. They're being shot in an STI Edge which is a strong gun with a thick chamber and barrel; same outside dimensions as a 1911 .45 ACP barrel. I occasionally shoot a few of these rounds in my carry gun, a Kahr CW40 which is far lighter than the Edge and they work well. If you want to try Titegroup I would suggest starting at 4.3 grains and work up from there for both velocity and reliable function. That is below my working load. A chronograph is very valuable in this sort of situation and almost mandatory if you shoot competition. A $100-$125 chrono is adequate. I was fortunate to start shooting the Edge with a bunch of other shooters that all used cast boolits so they led me through this learning curve and provided the load data.

You might be happier with the boolits if you add another 1.5% tin to your wheel weight alloy. It will flow much better.

Hope this helps.
David

[usmc0811]

Thanks guys I appreciate all your knowledge and feedback. I feel a lot better going at this now.

[lightman]

As the others have posted, more experience casting will get your weights closer together. I use straight wheelweights and get less than a 3 grain difference with 150 grain bullets. More tin would help but so will more time at the casting bench. If you stay back a little from the max load you will be fine. I often use the starting loads on the same weight jacketed bullets with no problems, so you can look at that data too.
As David said, Bullseye is not the best powder for this cartridge but I understand using what you have on hand. Load 10 or 20 at the starting load and if they shoot and function ok, load the rest of them, maybe going up a few .10's of a grain. You'll find a good variation on charge weights from book to book.

[Larry Gibson]

I wouldn't waste time weighing the rest of that 1000? bullets. I'd throw them in the pot, remelt and recast taking it as a "lesson learned".

The problem you are having is one that many who are just starting with a Lee 6 cavity mould have. You are probably holding all 3 handles while pouring the alloy into the cavities. If you hold the sprue plate handle many times it pivots the bottom of the mould blocks apart. The clue to that is the "wings" on many of the bullets and gross weight variation indicating the blocks are not together when the alloy is poured. Simply close the sprue plate but do not hold the sprue plate handle. Hold just the mould block handles.

Also fill each cavity by itself until a good sprue forms from the molten alloy bubbling up out of the hole. Then move to the next cavity. Don't try to cast too fast....slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

Also you might add 2% tin to your COWW alloy if the bullets do not fill out completely.

Larry Gibson

BTW; your "wings" are properly referred to as "fins".

[gwpercle]

Do yourself a big favor.
Cast your boolits , visually inspect them. keep the ones with a perfect base, with no holes or divots and few other flaws.
I'm sort of picky so most with wrinkles get tossed back. I like mine well filled out...but I'm starting to get less picky....they all do not have to be perfect any longer.
Do Not Weigh Them ! If they look good they will shoot good....weighing handgun boolits is usually a waste of your time....unless you are shooting for money or at 50 yards.
Added tin to straight COWW's will help them fill out and be more consistent.
You don't have to but it's just a little casting hint that helps.
Gary

[dondiego]

"high spikes" you mean the 2-3 most consistant weights? and remelt the others. If so that would require me to weigh the rest of my bullets which im guessing is close to 1,000 of them. But I guess with such a wide range in weight that is my only choice. Man what a waste of time casting all them bullets just to find out that they are not consistent. I might just start buying my bullets already made and stop casting my own.

You might be surprised at the variation in the weight of commercial cast projectiles too!

[usmc0811]

I wouldn't waste time weighing the rest of that 1000? bullets. I'd throw them in the pot, remelt and recast taking it as a "lesson learned".

The problem you are having is one that many who are just starting with a Lee 6 cavity mould have. You are probably holding all 3 handles while pouring the alloy into the cavities. If you hold the sprue plate handle many times it pivots the bottom of the mould blocks apart. The clue to that is the "wings" on many of the bullets and gross weight variation indicating the blocks are not together when the alloy is poured. Simply close the sprue plate but do not hold the sprue plate handle. Hold just the mould block handles.

Also fill each cavity by itself until a good sprue forms from the molten alloy bubbling up out of the hole. Then move to the next cavity. Don't try to cast too fast....slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

Also you might add 2% tin to your COWW alloy if the bullets do not fill out completely.

Larry Gibson

BTW; your "wings" are properly referred to as "fins".
That's exactly what I was doing when I first started I was holding the sprue plate handle with the mold block handles. I soon figured out what I was doing and fixed that. I will slow it down some and keep an eye on things. Thanks.