300 Blackout Alloy?

[Michael J. Spangler]

Hi Guys and Gals

I've been messing with the BO for a while and using a couple different approaches.
I have a 1:8 twist barrel.
I have had luck with lee 312155 2/3/95 tin/antimony/lead water dropped and gas checked and pushed about 1700 FPS they shot about 2.5" at 100 yards with zero load development.
I shot some 170 lee flat points of water dropped and plain based and have no clue where they were hitting at 100 yards.

I shot the 312155 that was hi-tek coated and water dropped at the end and it was probably an 8" group.

I know the bullet won't pick up as much hardness after hi-tek coating as with water dropping so thats a variable.

I would prefer to hi-tek coat and not gas check. How much should i bump the alloy to try to bump the hardness? Is 3/5/92 good?
Do you think that the gas check is what gave me the better accuracy or was it the hardness of the bullet that gave the better accuracy? combo?
thanks guys and gals!

I think I'm going to cast some more of 2/3/95 and water drop and gad check for now.

If the eternal consensus is that the hi-tek coated 2/3/95 is too soft then I can bump the alloy to try it harder.
Let me know what you all think please.
Thanks!

[Larry Gibson]

Wouldn't it be a lot easier to just put a GC on the bullet and get instant success? I know you PC guys don't want to use GCs but all I see regarding PC'd bullets is the inaccuracy or at least not very good accuracy from such PC'd bullets over 1400 fps if not GC'd and most often lubed also......that is exactly what we, who don't PC, have found with GC'd bullets sans the GC. True PB'd bullets fair a bit better, but from what I've read and tested (.223, 7mm and .30 cal up into the mid to high 2000 fps range), PC bullets shoot better GC'd and lubed.....just like regular cast bullets, especially if the bullet was designed for a GC and higher than pistol velocity is wanted.

Just my observation is all.

Larry Gibson

[Michael J. Spangler]

Hi Larry

thanks for the quick response. I really just hate working with GC and was looking for a way to speed up the process for what I hope to be a high volume plinker.
Also sizing and lubing on the star kind of sucks with a pointed bullet. I might have to make a longer punch to push the bullet clear through in one shot.

I guess I could run some of the coated with and without gas check and compare side by side with the same alloy water dropped and lubed and checked vs just lubed Then I could kind of rule out wether it's the alloy hardness or the gas check. I guess it's probably more of GC than the alloy. I did run those plain base 170 lee FP and had terrible accuracy with the water dropped alloy and plain base.
Maybe it's time to get a gas check maker.

[rhemcla]

Michael, I also use a Lee 312-155-2R on a 300 BLK in a 1:7" barrel. Bullets are cast from an alloy close to what you use, water quenched, GC'D and sized 0.311" on a Lee push thru sizer.
My experience is also similar to yours: decent accuracy with GC'D bullets (10 shots under 2" at 100 yds) and dismal w/o them.
I also hate having to put the GC but, as Larry says, the difference is so big that I've given up and now use them on everything going faster than about 1,400 fps.

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[Oklahoma Rebel]

I don't understand why people don't like messing with gc's, after all, you just put them on the sizer before you size the boolit, one extra step, and an easy one. but you pc guys are a weird bunch! just kidding!

[Reddirt62]

I don't understand why people don't like messing with gc's, after all, you just put them on the sizer before you size the boolit, one extra step, and an easy one. but you pc guys are a weird bunch! just kidding!
I pc and gc....like you say, still have to size.
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[Michael J. Spangler]

I cast a bunch of them today.
I'm going to cast some more and coat them and then gas check after that to see how they shoot.
Maybe i can get away with a softer alloy if I gas check.
If not no biggie. Just have to admit defeat to the gas check gods

[Naporter]

Kinda all depends on what you're running this in. If it's an AR, I'd work to get the HiTek coated bullets working. Play around with sizing, and don't forget to expand the case mouth to the proper size for the sized bullet so the case doesn't swage the bullet down below where you want it.

If if you're running a bolt action, skip the aggravation of coating and just lubrisize them. On my rifle bullets for AR, I'm running 3 coats minimum of HiTek to keep the action clean but have given up on pistols because of the time consuming aggravation and have bought a lube-a-matic for them.

Personally, I'm no fan of gas checks because I like my suppressor and am terrified of one coming off inside it. Probably unnecessary paranoia, but that's just me. Plus, the whole point of casting is keeping costs down, and gas checks hinder that purpose in rifle calibers and completely defeat it in some pistol calibers.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Kinda all depends on what you're running this in. If it's an AR, I'd work to get the HiTek coated bullets working. Play around with sizing, and don't forget to expand the case mouth to the proper size for the sized bullet so the case doesn't swage the bullet down below where you want it.

If if you're running a bolt action, skip the aggravation of coating and just lubrisize them. On my rifle bullets for AR, I'm running 3 coats minimum of HiTek to keep the action clean but have given up on pistols because of the time consuming aggravation and have bought a lube-a-matic for them.

Personally, I'm no fan of gas checks because I like my suppressor and am terrified of one coming off inside it. Probably unnecessary paranoia, but that's just me. Plus, the whole point of casting is keeping costs down, and gas checks hinder that purpose in rifle calibers and completely defeat it in some pistol calibers.


So the hi-tek is working for you? What alloy, bullet and what speeds?

Thanks!!

[Naporter]

I've been playing with it in my two ARs. In the 458S it's ok. I'm still working on load development for it, but it seems to like HiTek coated. The 500 grainers hit consistently at 100yds when launched at 1300 fps. The 330 Goulds do well too. These were sized at .459 and did well (in Tromix barrel)

So far in 300BO I'm around 3-4 MOA at 50yds, but I think it's a fit issue. I'm firing out of a short barrel and am planning on a suppressed subsonic (230 grain) plinking round so the accuracy bar is pretty low for that purpose. These were sized at .309. I'm going to try again at .311 now that my new sizer is in.

The Alloy for both is home mixed hardball, made from 98:2:0 range scrap from BrassandLead (on FeeBay) and scrap Linotype.

[Digital Dan]

180 grains of 30:1 in an 8" twist BO works well at subsonic velocity.

[Michael J. Spangler]

I just lubed and sized a few handfuls. Some I chased with a .308 JFP to chase out the cast in between. That kept the nose nice and sharp.
A few more handfuls I just pushed one after the other which flattened the tip of each one a little bit. This sped up the process but who knows what it will do to accuracy.

Then i sized some 3x hi-tek and left then without checks
lastly I sized some 3x hi-tek and checked them.

I guess I need to load a string of each bullet to get an idea of what will shoot well.
Or do you guys think if I loaded one charge weight of powder in each Bullet style I will still be able to notice which shoots bette?
If the unchecked shoot as bad as the FP and the unchecked 150FP then I suppose that would be true.
I guess the real test is if the hi-two GC shoots as well as the lubed GC

[6622729]

Yep, how many times have we had this conversation already? Lee 312155 is crazy accurate with the GC. I use water dropped COWW, a copper gas check and am astonished at how accurate my 300AAC AR is.


Wouldn't it be a lot easier to just put a GC on the bullet and get instant success? I know you PC guys don't want to use GCs but all I see regarding PC'd bullets is the inaccuracy or at least not very good accuracy from such PC'd bullets over 1400 fps if not GC'd and most often lubed also......that is exactly what we, who don't PC, have found with GC'd bullets sans the GC. True PB'd bullets fair a bit better, but from what I've read and tested (.223, 7mm and .30 cal up into the mid to high 2000 fps range), PC bullets shoot better GC'd and lubed.....just like regular cast bullets, especially if the bullet was designed for a GC and higher than pistol velocity is wanted.

Just my observation is all.

Larry Gibson

[Michael J. Spangler]

I'm hoping the coating works. If I can use the coating with a check and the lee sizer I'm good to go.
star sizers suck for spire points when you need to lube.
My local gun shop has a batch of .310 lee sizers coming in this week. Let's hope that solves the problem.
If so I'll be ordering a freechex III this week.

[WickedColt]

Amazon had Lee sizer kits for about $22 Prime but then yesterday they shot up to about $29...Still, if you want one quickly. Always awesome to support the local gun shop though! I wish mine had reloading dies and such.

I've been looking online for HiTek coating but it seems expensive. Lubing is something that I'm having "fun" figuring out as a new caster. Man, just when I think I am a step closer to having all the stuff I need, I find more stuff!! I love this though.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Amazon had Lee sizer kits for about $22 Prime but then yesterday they shot up to about $29...Still, if you want one quickly. Always awesome to support the local gun shop though! I wish mine had reloading dies and such.

I've been looking online for HiTek coating but it seems expensive. Lubing is something that I'm having "fun" figuring out as a new caster. Man, just when I think I am a step closer to having all the stuff I need, I find more stuff!! I love this though.


Hi-tek is super cheap once you figure how much acetone that you add you realize a little goes a long way!
Yeah this local guy is a lee stocking dealer and runs custom jobs now and then so I like to pass the money to him to keep the good stuff running.
He ran the lee 312-155 in a 6 cavity before it was a stock option. He's currently looking for a good design to have a custom run of .458 socom moulds made too.
Gotta love having a casting centric shop 10 minutes up the street

[Loudy13]

GC's aren't so bad I have my arbor press set up in front of the TV and knock em out, That way I can say sitting and watching the Wild or Vikings lose isn't a total waste of time haha

[Michael J. Spangler]

Gas check i guess are not my main gripe... it's gas checks and spice points in a star sizer... NO THANKS

[6622729]

Gas Checks through a Lee sizer are a no brainer. Tumble lube, GC and size, then tumble lube a 2nd time. GC's are on tight, boolit is sized and points are protected. Ready to load.


Gas check i guess are not my main gripe... it's gas checks and spice points in a star sizer... NO THANKS

[popper]

If you don't want to use GC, get a PB mould. Then you can start pushing jacketed fps.

[Michael J. Spangler]

If you don't want to use GC, get a PB mould. Then you can start pushing jacketed fps.


i'm hoping that I can get samples of the NOE plain bass version. No luck yet.
Seems like from the discussion above I won't be able to get them as accurate as a GC bullet.

[6622729]

If cheap and fast are your two highest priorities then you are kidding yourself. Tumble lubing with 45/45/10 is silly cheap, silly fast.



Hi-tek is super cheap once you figure how much acetone that you add you realize a little goes a long way!
Yeah this local guy is a lee stocking dealer and runs custom jobs now and then so I like to pass the money to him to keep the good stuff running.
He ran the lee 312-155 in a 6 cavity before it was a stock option. He's currently looking for a good design to have a custom run of .458 socom moulds made too.
Gotta love having a casting centric shop 10 minutes up the street

[Michael J. Spangler]

If cheap and fast are your two highest priorities then you are kidding yourself. Tumble lubing with 45/45/10 is silly cheap, silly fast.

I might try some 45/45/10 on some too. I do have a small batch left to mess with. Hopefully the .310 lee sized is in today.

[6622729]

I generally tumble lube and stand the boolits on end. Many say you don't have to. You probably don't but I like the more uniform finish when I do. Usually I'll try to let them sit for 2 days before loading them. If I wait they're never sticky. I was casting my first .40 caliber the other evening and wanted to get some loaded so I had a small bathroom type heater set on low wafting across my just tumbled lubed boolits. I was able to load them in about an hour or so. Anyway, if you make the 45/45/10 properly and give it a chance to dry, you will not be faced with the messy claims people who try and do not like tumble lubing will claim.
I love the look that Hi-Tek and PC can provide. I just don't think it's worth the time and effort. I have had zero leading issues using 45/45/10 in 9mm (Lee unsized 124TC and 124RN) or 300BO (sized .309 and copper gas checked using Lee 312-155-2R and NOE 311-150-SP)


I might try some 45/45/10 on some too. I do have a small batch left to mess with. Hopefully the .310 lee sized is in today.

[Michael J. Spangler]

I generally tumble lube and stand the boolits on end. Many say you don't have to. You probably don't but I like the more uniform finish when I do. Usually I'll try to let them sit for 2 days before loading them. If I wait they're never sticky. I was casting my first .40 caliber the other evening and wanted to get some loaded so I had a small bathroom type heater set on low wafting across my just tumbled lubed boolits. I was able to load them in about an hour or so. Anyway, if you make the 45/45/10 properly and give it a chance to dry, you will not be faced with the messy claims people who try and do not like tumble lubing will claim.
I love the look that Hi-Tek and PC can provide. I just don't think it's worth the time and effort. I have had zero leading issues using 45/45/10 in 9mm (Lee unsized 124TC and 124RN) or 300BO (sized .309 and copper gas checked using Lee 312-155-2R and NOE 311-150-SP)

good to know. I've had luck with it in pistol cartridges. I bought mine from white label so I'm sure it's spot on. I also mixed up some BLL with the johnsons floor wax. Maybe I'll give that a try too.
I wouldn't mind that over hi-tek if it worked well. One less step.
I don't find hi-tek slow at all. I'm lucky enough to have a large household sized oven on my shop so I can make a whole lot in one batch. If I had to deal with my toaster oven I would go mad!
Thanksfor the info friend

[6622729]

I have a full size oven as well. How do you jig a rifle bullet to stand up or do you go the shake and bake in 3 coats route?


good to know. I've had luck with it in pistol cartridges. I bought mine from white label so I'm sure it's spot on. I also mixed up some BLL with the johnsons floor wax. Maybe I'll give that a try too.
I wouldn't mind that over hi-tek if it worked well. One less step.
I don't find hi-tek slow at all. I'm lucky enough to have a large household sized oven on my shop so I can make a whole lot in one batch. If I had to deal with my toaster oven I would go mad!
Thanksfor the info friend

[popper]

I've used BLL in the BO, no problem if the alloy is right.

[Michael J. Spangler]

I have a full size oven as well. How do you jig a rifle bullet to stand up or do you go the shake and bake in 3 coats route?
The coating is so thin it's doesn't bulk up so no need to do anything other than dump. Wait a second or two then shake (encase so liquid was trapped between the bullet) wait a little for the acetone to flash off then bake. It's way easier than using powder coat. That's slow and annoying.


I've used BLL in the BO, no problem if the alloy is right.
what alloy did you use? Gas check of course right? Accuracy?

[6622729]

Yes, copper gas check. Probably nothing specific about copper over aluminum. I started with copper and just stuck with it. Accuracy is crazy good out a self assembled 300BO 16" MAS Defense barrel on Aero Precision upper and lower. Alloy has been COWW. My most recent casting for 30 caliber has been Lyman #2 made from scrap materials I alloyed just because I have ridiculous quantities of components and don't care if I'm "wasting" tin as some people like to say it. I was getting the slightest scratching from the feed ramp, hence the change to Lyman #2. I water drop everything I cast.


The coating is so thin it's doesn't bulk up so no need to do anything other than dump. Wait a second or two then shake (encase so liquid was trapped between the bullet) wait a little for the acetone to flash off then bake. It's way easier than using powder coat. That's slow and annoying.


what alloy did you use? Gas check of course right? Accuracy?