'Uston; I think we have a problem!

[Bigjohn]

Yes, I know, it's not exactly Apollo 13, but...............

The history; Recently, I was offered a deal on some handloaded ammunition complete with it's ammopacks (Plastic Cases). I don't know who cast the boolits or loaded the ammo but here is the info I do have.

A cast 149gr RN boolit in front of 5 grains of UNIQUE packed into Winchester Nickle plated .38 Spl +P cases. Primer unknown. This is close to the load I normally use in the S & W Highway Patrolman.

When I inspected these prior to purchasing the rounds; they appeared to be put together very well. This was a golden opportunity for me as I had not been able to sit at the press for long periods loading ammo due to a lower back problem. My supply of ammo had almost dried up and competing in matches curtailed. I bought these to help extend the time I had to get my own loads back into production.

Yesterday was the first opportunity to compete, so, I set off with 100 rounds for the match. After first checking that the rounds would shoot close to my sight settings, I prepared for the match.

As I was loading the speedloaders, another member was checking out the rounds when he passed one to me and showed me that the boolit could be turned in the case without difficulty. A closer inspection then turned up many others had the same problem. It also appears that the reloader had a mis-adjusted seating die which was shaving the boolits.

I shot the match and some of the results on target were horrible from oblique holes to perfect profiles. So, I shot off 80 odd rounds during the match and the rest in practice or over the chrono (833 fps avg.).

NOW, I must add, in the past the revolver has never had or shown any of these problems with the ammunition I have loaded for it; apart from excess smoke and soot from the UNIQUE powder charge.

The biggest shock was awaiting my return home and cleaning session; after a dry patch to removed the loose powder residue the forcing cone felt very rough and a visual inspection showed why.

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh305/John7591/Boolit%20related/LeadingShards.jpg
These are what I was able to pick off the cloth under the handgun, the scale is in milimetres with a .5mm division.

Comments and thoughts welcome;

John.

[KCSO]

That my friend is leading, really good leading, or really bad depending on who has to clean the gun. A good soak with your favorite bore cleaner and a couple hundred trips through the bore with a bristle brush...

No one elses hand loads are ever a good deal. If I make a mistake at the loading bench and I pay for it so be it, but it sure hurts to lose a gun to someone elses faulty hand loads. Looks don't mean squat and even if you pull down a few you only know about those you pulled. I GOT A DEAL on some 9 MM handloads one time and 99 out of 100 were perfect, but out of ever 100 rounds there were one or two with NO POWDER. In a combat match this cost me (my son in law) a new barrel for my gun and the loss of a shooting day, when a dud drove a bullet 1/2 way into a barrel and my son in law cleared the gun and fired another round . I saw a 38 snubby scattered over the range whne someone loaded 357 loads in 38 cases and put them in the wrong box.

I won't use a progressive press because I want to SEE how much powder is in EVERY round. I throw all my shaved or deformed bullets in the discard and I chamber EVERY round I take hunting and I have still had mishaps over the course of 40 years reloading. Like driving 100 miles to hunt with necksized cases for my dad's rifle instead of mine!

I just got a BUY on some once fired 303 brass and I will have to throw 75 out of 100 away as they were fired in a gun so out of headspace that they are starting to seperate. The ones I reload wil be with cast practice loads only and they will go to the range with a case extractor in tow.

Be happy that your lesson only cost you a match as it could have been a new 38.

[Onlymenotu]

I've shot * in a rifle* boolits that have been loose in the case before with no problems and no leading in the bore,,,, are you sure these are sized,,,, the size you need for your pist-0-al..... as that very well could cause the forcing cone leading,,,,

[SharpsShooter]

I've shot * in a rifle* boolits that have been loose in the case before with no problems and no leading in the bore,,,, are you sure these are sized,,,, the size you need for your pist-0-al..... as that very well could cause the forcing cone leading,,,,

I've done the same myself in a rifle with no problem. All my PP loads spin in the case. It sounds like the boolits are much smaller than your throat diameters. If they were too loose, it might tie up the revolver or move the boolits enough forward from recoil of previous shots to give inconsistant ignition, leading and dismal accuracy.

SS

[TCLouis]

KCSO

In a one step removed sort of way one can see the powder in every case by installing a powder check die in the station before boolit seating/crimping.

Someone in one of the sites even told how he set up a mirror so he could peer down into the case after the powder drop station.

NOT checking can lead to some expensive or disasterous situations on the firing line!

[augois]

Before I reloaded for myself, I bought some 45ACP handloads at a gun show. In the first couple I fired, one was so hot, it racked the slide hard enough to come back and cut my arm. I dropped the mag, and cleared the chamber upon which I noticed that the Barrel bushing was cracked into 3 seperate pieces. It is now policy that I do not use handloads except from trusted sources.....namely me, and a very good and trusted friend.

[Murphy]

Bigjohn,

While I'm no rocket scientist, from all indications (boolits tumbling, leading)...I'm gonna lean towards betting the booilts where undersized several 1000th's.

Had the same thing happen decades ago. I'd accidentally sized some .38 caliber boolits to .355 instead of my usual .358

Just my two cents worth.

Murphy

[Bent Ramrod]

Rule #1: Don't shoot anyone else's handloads, unless maybe they are present and it's their gun. Even that can be problematic, as I found when I pulled the trigger that blew up a friend's nice Colt SAA .45. The friend used his newly-purchased crank-type powder measure to load the shells, and he was pleased with how fast the charging operation went. I tried to give him back the gun after the first two shots, citing the unpleasant recoil, but he insisted I finish the cylinder. The next shot finished the cylinder, and the top strap, too.

Then there was the box of .44-40 reloads purchased at a gun show for use in a Model 92. The first shot was a "click!" and when the action was opened, the shell popped out like a champagne cork, followed by a mass of Cream of Wheat.

When we broke down the remainder of the reloads, we deduced that the unknown handloader had taken to heart all the gun-mag advice about the "cavernous" black-powder cases and the need for fillers to keep the smokeless powder near the primer. Unfortunately, he had not put in enough filler to do this, just enough to shake around loose and mix well with the powder. Took a while to get the stuck bullet out of the barrel and the Cream of Wheat out of the action.

Any reloads I get anymore I break down for components. It only takes one misfire or overload or stuck round to turn a nice, mellow shooting session into a major stress. The products of the semi-professional "white box" reloaders seem to be a little better, another friend shoots a lot of their stuff, but I wouldn't use it myself.

[Bigjohn]

I took 100 rounds to the range and fired 99 (as it turns out). After the shoot during which I experienced; difficulty getting rounds to slide freely into the chambers, at least one failure to rotate the cylinder under normal trigger pull, multiple tumbled holes in the targets and about 5 out of 6 boolits that can be turned by hand in the cases; I had a very dirty revolver and no desire to continue shooting these loads.

At the range I believed I had fired all 100 rounds but search as best I could failed to turn up the 100th case. If you can not find all of your cases after shooting you are not looking hard enough, on our range. After coming home; taking apart all my equipment; searching the pouches etc there was no sign of it. After breakfast this morning, I changed into the clothes I had on yesterday and there it was on the floor. Talk about Range Fairies!

I guess I have a long session with the kinetic hammer coming up; may also check some of the sizes etc.

I am also wondering if he used a mold cut for the 9mm cartridge?

John.

[monadnock#5]

I have no advice to offer any better that what you've received thus far. I just wanted to say how happy I am that you're still shooting handguns. A year ago it sounded as though you were on the verge of having to turn them in. I'm very glad to know that it all worked out in the end.

[1Shirt]

Shoulda looked this gift horse in the mouth befor you bought it. Would bet that you were way, way undersized, and there is a strong possibility that they were very soft.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[Jim]

When I first joined this forum years ago, I was told "NEVER use handloads made by someone else, REGARDLESS of who makes them." I have adhered to that advice ever since and have seen numerous times where others have gotten into trouble by not following that advice.

[Bigjohn]

I think the same reloader was responsible for a batch of 9mm reloads I was offered last year. Same sort of issues.

I didn't buy, but someone else did and found the same problems. He must be cleaning out his cupboard post Buyback's.

I will do some research into the problems when I pull some down and post the results here.

John.

[xoxoTA]

I have discovered while idly playing around that some new factory 22 rimfire ammo is loose enough to rotate the bullet in the case. Not all that uncommon. I have also wondered about the relative accuracy of those, but have never tested to confirm anything one way or the other.

[Wayne Smith]

When I was loading for a friends Trapdoor the most accurate load was a case full of FFG, a card wad, and a thumb seated boolit (457125) in an unsized case. Yeah, the boolit would spin around! It was more accurate that way than with a crimp.

[Bigjohn]

Well, if anything good is to come out of this then I may have some good cases, be able to unload the remaining loads, resize, re-charge and boolit the cases with my own cast boolits.

I can then salvage the metal in the boolits and repour them to better spec's.

The powder will have to be burnt off due to possible contamination. and the plastic cases are in very good condition.

I have the fired cases ready to resize at present so I will do 1/2 of them through each dieset I use to reload .38 Spl +P (RCBS & LEE).

John.

[missionary5155]

Good morning BIGJOHN I no longer SIT at the loading bench---- Rebuilt the whole rig and now I stand... took care of the back ! I stand on a thick heavy duty truck mud flap.. well there are several scattered about. Good news that you and the weapon did not suffer any damage. My dad touched off a reload one day and his beautiful old Police Positive became a 3 shot open top. Remember that wizzy sound with incoming rounds ! Vetrans were down all over the place... Civilians all standing around saying " Whats-dat " .... Dad had all his fingers..just a few new razor marks... USE SHOOTING GLASSES...

[Bigjohn]

Well, today being a typical winters day here downunder; cold and WET; what better time to start the breakdown of the ammo.
The batch consisted of; 50, 158gr JHP loads; 200 of mixed SWC & HPSWC cast/swaged loads; 50, 149gr cast RN loads (lubed) 50, RN lead type boolit marked 'new' and 300, 149gr cast RN UNLUBED; for a total of 650 rounds.

I brokedown the JHP rounds which had some reloading problems; the 149gr RN loads lubed and unlubed and will consider my options on the balance.

It now appears that the problems I experience at last weeks match was due to the fact that none of the boolits had been lubed. The 50 rounds which had lubed boolits in them showed signs of leakage with the outside of the cases were covered with lube and very little remained in the lube groove to be effective.

Also the number of lead shavings indicate that the reloader had little knowledge of the art or his dies needed adjustment. Also, he was attempting to crimp into the boolit metal ahead of the actual crimp groove with a stronger crimp than required; leaving a small bulge at that point on the cartridge

According to the data labels I found with some of the loads; these were assembled in April 2001 or atleast 100 of them were; the rest, well who knows.

I hope my lesson can serve as a lesson for others who may be tempted to follow me.
From now on I will look at such 'gift horses' with a more critical eye and with the view of buying components only.

John.