Oil Change

[jimlj]

Do any of you have a Ford with the intelligent oil life monitor? Do you trust it? My 2014 Edge will let me go about 9,000 miles between changes.
I know the oil of today is much better than the oil was in the early 70's when I changed the oil "every 3 months or 3000 miles, which ever comes first".
I just looked online and the Ford site said the monitor said it would remind me when to change oil based on my driving habits, and would remind me no matter how many miles I drive after a year between changes.

[runfiverun]

a lot of the newer vehicles will monitor the oil and give you a life percentage left for the oil.
I don't believe oil is good for 9-K miles it just picks up too much 'stuff', especially in a newer engine.
4-5,000 'easy driving' miles I buy for many of them... but.

[Skunk1]

Our '15 jeep has it. Use full synthetic in it as that's what the dealer uses. Supposed to change oil every 10,000 miles but I change every 5,000.

[jcwit]

Use one of the High Quality filters such s the Fram Synthetic filter and use synthetic oil like Mobil 1 or Penzoil Plus and you are good to go for 10,000 miles.

From the Fram sight:
FRAM ULTRA SYNTHETIC™ Oil Filter
For drivers looking for top performance from newer engines and maximum protection for older vehicles. Ultra Synthetic is engineered to be paired with synthetic oil and provides proven protection up to 15,000 Miles.1


Take a look here for more info regarding all aspects of oil, more than you'll ever need!

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php

[DerekP Houston]

yep, i follow the honda maintenance minder guidelines and its usually 7-8k miles between changes. All synthetic oil.

[Reddirt62]

With synthetic oil there is less wear, less wear means less "stuff" and therefore it lasts longer. 3k/3 months was a construct of the quick change industry...I suggest following manufacturer recommendations. I will day it won't hurt to do it early. 35 years as a diesel mechanic taught me a thing or two....😊

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[rancher1913]

the wifes new toyota oil change schedule is 10,000 miles.

[lylejb]

Oil is the cheapest insurance you'll ever buy is what I tell my customers. The thing is, you can get away with murder......for a while. Where it catches up with you is later, after the warranty has expired. Personally, I change mine at 5k miles.....but I've only been doing it for a living for 25 years. I just shake my head at the thought of a 12k or 15k oil change.

[marlin39a]

I've been using Mobil 1 full synthetic for over 30 yrs. I change every 5000 miles. My last engine went over 300,000 miles before I sold the truck. That was 4 yrs ago, and that truck is still in use.

[country gent]

I always liked the hevy equipments Hours @ xxxx rpm over miles traveled. 3000 miles at 35 mph is easier than 3000 miles at 70 mph since the engine is working harder at higher rpms.

[LaPoint]

I subscribe to lylejb's theory. What does it cost to have your engine replaced or overhauled? Even at $35.00 for Mobil1 and a filter oil is cheap. I still do my own oil changes because I like to and I get a good look at the under side of my vehicles.

[Houndog]

Oil minders are fine IF you run the engine under the exact perimeters the computer program calls for. They DO NOT do an oil analisis on the fly. Why take a chance? I run my oil 5K miles and use top tier oil and filters exclusively! I may be spending a little extra for early oil changes but the extra engine life more than pays for it.

[brass410]

I agree with regular oil changes. Even with the monitor each vehicle operates under different conditions. few if any operate under "Ideal conditions " Oil wether synthetic or regular usually does not "wear out " more often than not it becomes fouled with various contaminents from fuel and engine operation etc which immediately begins to affect the oils ability to do its job. If you want to keep the horse for a long time you are well advised to take good care of it. After all you did pay several thousand dollars for it, and an oil change is mere pittance price to an engine rebuild, or worse a replacement paid out of your pocket. However this is my own observation after 35 years in the trade at both dealerships and my own certified service centre. These maintence minders are are just what they are intended to be A GUIDELINE. I have had customers come in over the years and say you know I've never checked the fluids in my engine since I got it and in the same breath I cant belive that this engine is knocking. Please feel free to drive as far as you would like with no fuel, BUT you realy should look after the oil. I tell this to all my new drivers who come in with their first car and we have a laugh. And then in about 8-12 months we start to look for repair parts for them.

[William Yanda]

Short trips are one of the hardest things to factor. Oil does not get warm enough to drive off condensation, encourages build up of acids. Allegedly, computer tracking follows all use, high revs, duration of runs, engine temps, etc.

[JWT]

My 2006 Yukon has had synthetic oil in it since new. I change the oil when the monitor tells be to, usually around 8000 to 9000 miles. It currently has 220,000 on it. the truck doesn't burn oil and hasn't lost any mpg.

[FISH4BUGS]

I have been driving Mercedes Diesels for over 30 years. My last one was bought with 110,000 miles on it and it had 414,000 miles on it when I sold it and it did still not burn a drop of oil. The head was never off the car. I use Rotella exclusively.
I changed the oil and filter every 3000 miles religiously. Fuel filters 15-20,000. Transmission service every 25,000.
I would not trust any of the electronics of any new car. That's why I seek out pre '95 Mercedes low mileage (bought my last one with 238,000 on it :smile: - it was a one owner with all the service records and was all highway miles) diesels, buy them, then drive the doors off them.
I had a 99 E300 for a while that did not even have a dipstick. You checked the oil by hitting a sequence of buttons. It showed OK or add a quart. Sorry. No dice.

[308Jeff]

The fit and finish of modern engines is light years beyond what it used to be. As is the design of current motor oils. You can change it at whatever interval you're comfortable with, or you CAN trust what the computer is telling you to do.

[tomme boy]

I do full synthetic and change the filter at 3K and then change both at 6K. The thing with all if these new cars and trucks, is they require 0w-30 oil. They are doing this to get the last extra 1 MPG out of the motor. I feel we are going to be having a lot of motors going bad in a few years. I know Toyota Tundras were having all kinds of motor replacements because of the 10K oil changes. I think they now have them doing a 7 or 7.5K oil change now.

[Soundguy]

a lot of the newer vehicles will monitor the oil and give you a life percentage left for the oil.
I don't believe oil is good for 9-K miles it just picks up too much 'stuff', especially in a newer engine.
4-5,000 'easy driving' miles I buy for many of them... but.

You'd be surprised how long oil can last, especially if you buy good full synthetic oil, and not 1.89$ a quart house brand.

Might not make a difference to an Econo car that uses 1g oil, but larger diesels using 4-10+ gallons, oil life monitoring via used oil analysis is smart money. Especially when you oil costs 30$ a gallon. At that point, good filtration, filter changes and soot n wear metal monitoring save you $ and don't hurt your investment.

The old 3000mile oil change days from the 70's, and cars that needed an engine rebuild at 100k are ancient history.

I only own one gas engine on road vehicle now, rest are diesel, however even on that gasser, it doesn't even need a plug change till 100k per the manufacturer service recs.

Advanced mixture control, knock detection, etc, and no carb dumping fuel into an engine diluting your oil are extending engine life many times.

[MaryB]

I use Valvoline full synthetic and go 5k between changes. Works out to about every 6 months or so the way I drive. And since it is 90% highway miles at 60mph the engine is never worked hard. Oil always loks clean still when it is changed. That is in the 5.4 liter Triton V8 in my 2001 F150. Great engine if it doesn't spit out a spark plug.

[redneck1]

i can understand wanting to protect your investment if you buy new or newer vehicles . but i subscribe to cheapskates quarterly .
my last car was a 1999 ford ranger 2wd 4cyl 5 speed . it had 127,000 miles on it when i bought it .
when i junked it it had 280,000 ish on the odometer . .

i drove it for 9 years , in 9 years it never had an oil change , every 5000 miles or so it would need a quart top off .
i junked the truck not because it quit running , on the contrary it still ran quite nicely . it was quiet and didnt smoke . it got junked because the frame rusted threw .

personally if i ever bought a new or newer car i wouldn't have a single issue with going 10,000 or more miles between changes .

[308Jeff]

I use Valvoline full synthetic and go 5k between changes. Works out to about every 6 months or so the way I drive. And since it is 90% highway miles at 60mph the engine is never worked hard. Oil always loks clean still when it is changed. That is in the 5.4 liter Triton V8 in my 2001 F150. Great engine if it doesn't spit out a spark plug.

Mine is a 2009 3V 5.4. 203,000 miles so far.

[waksupi]

I drive old vehicles, and both manuals recommend 5000 oil changes. Places that change oil, like you to change at 3000, to make more money. I usually go for 5000, but do look at how the oil looks when I check it. If it's getting dark, I get it changed.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

Mine is a 2009 3V 5.4. 203,000 miles so far.

2008 5.4 90 K change oil every 5 k mobil 1 full synthetic plan on keeping it long time

[marlin39a]

2008 5.4 90 K change oil every 5 k mobil 1 full synthetic plan on keeping it long time

Yes sir! With Mobil 1 it will run forever!

[jimlj]

I get a bit nervous with the extended oil changes, but if the manufacturers thought there was a problem, they certainly wouldn't recommend them.
I'm not a believer in synthetic oil being a lot better than conventional oil. I have had two cars now that I have ran well over 200,000 miles on inexpensive wallymart oil. I did change the oil at around 5000 miles. The current Edge I have been following the computer's recommendation, but I may go back to the 5000 mile OCI.

[jcwit]

I get a bit nervous with the extended oil changes, but if the manufacturers thought there was a problem, they certainly wouldn't recommend them.
I'm not a believer in synthetic oil being a lot better than conventional oil. I have had two cars now that I have ran well over 200,000 miles on inexpensive wallymart oil. I did change the oil at around 5000 miles. The current Edge I have been following the computer's recommendation, but I may go back to the 5000 mile OCI.

Cheap wallymart oil???

How bout inexpensive wallymart oil!

It is formulated by Warren Performance Products, and is far from a "cheap" oil.

Who makes what oil??
]Warren Performance Products (WPP)

[list]
* Accel
* Kum & Go Super Premium
* Mag 1
* Oasis Market
* Pilot Premium
* ProLine (Pep Boys)
* Spectrum Plus (Sears)
* Supertech (Walmart; some)
* Traveller (Tractor Supply)[/quote]

This site tells all.https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1874630

[merlin101]

Oil doesn't wear out, it's the additives that wear out or burn up. If you have a good filter to keep the oil clean and add oil when necessary it last a looonng time. I currently have a 2017 IH Prostar with a Cummins in it that has a 40,000 mile oil change recommendation. My last truck had a Detriot and listed 50,000 between changes all done with stock filters. The Detroit never used any oil and I drove 500,000 that's a half a million miles. Lots of guy's out there with trucks with filtration systems run the same oil for 200,000-300,000 miles without problems. They do sample the oil but unless there's an internal engine problem all they do is add a gallon and keep driving.
I have a pick up with an old mechanical diesel engine and change that 2x a year, could go longer but the old girl runs a bit rich and blows black smoke when I get on it, that's soot and soot in the oil isn't good.

[farmerjim]

If you are going to trade it in and get a new vehicle at 100,000 miles, use the cheapest oil and change at 7 to 10 K.
If you want to go 250,000 in it, use good oil, and change more often.

[dragon813gt]

Mobil's newest product is supposed to last one year or 20,000 miles: https://mobiloil.com/en/article/why-the-mobil-advantage/mobil-1-performance/mobil-1-annual-protection-oil-tested-results

I have to jack up the vehicles every 5k miles to rotate the tires. Once it's up I might as well change the oil. It adds no extra time since I'm rotating the tires while it drains. Changing the oil is cheap insurance. I know synthetics last longer. But I prefer to err on the side of caution.

[alamogunr]

I just replaced a 2006 Toyota Avalon. After the dealer free oil changes, I used Shaeffer full synthetic every 10K miles. About every 3 or 4 changes I sent a sample to an oil analysis lab and always got a good report. Before we gave the car to our son, I had an analysis done and got a good report. This last oil was Mobil 1 and had just under 10K. Excellent report. The car had almost 150K miles.

The 2017 Toyota Avalon will get Toyota Genuine Motor Oil(to get technical about it) every 10K miles at the dealer. Same as the 2013 Tundra. I'm too old to want to crawl under a vehicle any more. They can rotate the tires at that time too.

[jmort]

There are large diesel engines that run the same oil for long periods of time. They utilize filters and clean the oil. Oil samples are sent out and analyzed. Oil lasts indefinitely

[Handloader109]

You guys that change the oil at 3k miles are wasting your time and money. 10k is fine. I put over 300k miles on 89 ranger with no oil use. My 97 f250 Diesel went over 200k before I sold it, and it used just a bit between changes. I have a 97 Miata over 225k, it has used oil since I bought it, my daughter's 01 Miata is at 169k with zero oil use. My 05 f150 uses a half quart between 10k changes too. At 170k miles...And prior owner changed at 3k.. and it was using the same then at 100k as now.

[Handloader109]

Not necessary.

[mold maker]

I see only synthetic mentioned. Is there a difference in one brand over another?
My 03 Dodge has only 70 K on it, and I hope the Synthetic Casteroil (5-6K per change) I use will make it the last vehicle I need.

[TexasGrunt]

Our 2013 Tundra gets the oil changed when it tells us to. Same with my Ram with a Cummins.

[Tackleberry41]

Oil and cars have changed alot since the 70s. Yea the quick lube places prefer you come in every 3k. But engines do not dump all the garbage in the oil like they used. And decent motor oil is way better than it was 30 or 40 yrs ago.

So 10k for an oil change? Depends on what your putting in it. A quality oil, no problem. But alot of oil places and even dealers use garbage. I worked for a guy who had a quick lube, he had the bottles out for you to chose your brand, but it all came out of a drum of recycled oil. I worked on porsche, even they went 15k on synthetic.

[alamogunr]

Our 2013 Tundra gets the oil changed when it tells us to. Same with my Ram with a Cummins.

How does it tell you? My 2013 Tundra doesn't have an oil life monitor, but it is probably a base model. It gets an oil change at 10K miles whether it needs it or not.

[35remington]

My dad and also me had a number of carbd vehicles and none of them needed a rebuild after only 100k as some claim here. Quite frankly for several of them 150, 175 or 200K or more was easy including a slant six Dodge and straight six Ford as well as 426 Plymouth, 350 Chevy and others like a 273 Dodge. Nearly all engines were running quite decently when accidents or other maladies did the cars or trucks in.

I would guess engine life has potentially increased, but vastly more so is doubtful in my opinion.

[Josh Smith]

I was trained as an auto tech and worked as one for a while.

I change my oil every 3000 to 5000 miles. If I get to 5000, though, I feel bad.

I drive a 2000 Blazer because I love those little SUVs. The motor has 180,000 miles on it and uses no more oil than a new engine, about half a quart every 3,000 miles.

I also repack the bearings in the idler and tensioner pulleys instead of replacing them.

Maybe I'm just old.

Josh

[Mtnfolk75]

We have lived in the Boonies for over 40 years, so none of our vehicles do short trips. I have changed oil & rotated tires on all our road stuff at 5k for as long as I can remember. Our off-road stuff get an annual service regardless of use or miles.

[dragon813gt]

They haven't taught every 3k-5k in a long time. So you may just be old [emoji6]

[jmort]

One of the primary limiting factors is the filter. Put synthetic oil in with a *** filter and you best change it at 3K or so. Get a Wix filter for synthetic oil or other filter designed to filter for extended periods and 10k is no problem.

[Josh Smith]

My concern is mainly winter driving.

We've been pretty cold in Indiana here the past few years.

Though fuel injection is much better in cold weather than are carburetors, the mixture must still be enriched.

Gasoline washes oil off the cylinder walls and gets into the oil. Gasoline is not a lubricant, so that causes problems.

Even with MFI and SFI, I still do get gasoline in the oil during the winter.

A lot of stop and go giving does the same thing, especially if the engine doesn't warm up all the way between on/off cycles, will do the same thing.

Additionally, the PCV system cannot operate at peak efficiency with a cold engine, and failure to evacuate fumes causes sludge, which in turn causes early filter failure. When the filter gets plugged, a bypass valve opens to allow the oil to circulate unfiltered.

Regards,

Josh

[jcwit]

Wife and I have eachhave our own vehicles.

Hers is a 2003 Kia Rio, she drives it very little and we store it is the winter because of the salt on the roads.
Last year she drove it approx 3,000 miles, oil is changed every spring or fall whenever I get around to it.
It runs on Mobil 1 with a Fram Extended Guard filter.
It now has 120,000 miles on it and used no oil that I can see between changes.
Last week it had it's first engine problem in 3 years, needed a new Mass Air Flow Sensor, $25 bucks thru E-Bay.

My daily driver is a 2005 Pontiac Vibe, built by Toyota, same thing as a Toyota Matrix.
I change the oil every 5,000 to 8,000 miles, depending on the weather in the winter, summer is no problem.
It also runs on either Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Platinum Full Synthetic with a Fram Ultra Synthetic filter.
Changing the oil every 5,000 miles is usually 2 to 3 times a year.
The Vibe now has 160,000 miles on it with no oil usage.
Last year I changed the spark plugs, first major fix in the 3 years I've owned it.

BTW, both cars get a drain & fill of the auto tranny fluid every 2 to 3 oil changes.

How many here change or even check the tranny fluid?
Remember, a tranny costs just as much as an engine.

[Josh Smith]

I leave transmission services up to the professionals.

Josh

[alamogunr]

I notice that several posters emphasized the importance of a good oil filter. I used NAPA Gold filters when I was changing my own oil mostly because the NAPA store was about 200 yards from my house. I think they are same as top of the line WIX filters.

If you really want to get into oil and related stuff go to:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php

More than you ever wanted to know.

[jcwit]

I leave transmission services up to the professionals.

Josh

It's real diffucult to do a drin and fill.

Remove the plug, drain, refill with fresh fluid.

When was the last time you did a full fluid flush and fill?

[Plate plinker]

I leave transmission services up to the professionals.

Josh

Ditto on transmissions. The daily drivers get proper transmission service. My old truck is a different story I am willing to try anything with that vehicle.

[LAKEMASTER]

My work does 15k intervals on prius' with full synthetic.

5k on semi syn and regular gas motors.

We sell vehicles with. 350k on them.

[jcwit]

Ditto on transmissions. The daily drivers get proper transmission service. My old truck is a different story I am willing to try anything with that vehicle.

Really, does it take a pro to do a drain & fill?

Heck it doesn't even take a pro to change the filter and refill.

Been doing it for 30 years now.

What could possible be wrong or improper with a drain and fill to ones tranny.

It only keeps approx 1/2 of the fluid new and fresh.

Again when was the last time anyone has had a complete tranny flush and fill on schdual?

[xs11jack]

Tonight watching North woods Law I saw a ad for once a year oil change. As I was talking to the wife I didn't get the brand but I think it was one of the popular ones like pennsoil or valoline or such. Once a year?? I would like to see the fine print on that one.
Ole Jack

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Wife and I have eachhave our own vehicles.

Hers is a 2003 Kia Rio, she drives it very little and we store it is the winter because of the salt on the roads.
Last year she drove it approx 3,000 miles, oil is changed every spring or fall whenever I get around to it.
It runs on Mobil 1 with a Fram Extended Guard filter.
It now has 120,000 miles on it and used no oil that I can see between changes.
Last week it had it's first engine problem in 3 years, needed a new Mass Air Flow Sensor, $25 bucks thru E-Bay.

My daily driver is a 2005 Pontiac Vibe, built by Toyota, same thing as a Toyota Matrix.
I change the oil every 5,000 to 8,000 miles, depending on the weather in the winter, summer is no problem.
It also runs on either Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Platinum Full Synthetic with a Fram Ultra Synthetic filter.
Changing the oil every 5,000 miles is usually 2 to 3 times a year.
The Vibe now has 160,000 miles on it with no oil usage.
Last year I changed the spark plugs, first major fix in the 3 years I've owned it.

BTW, both cars get a drain & fill of the auto tranny fluid every 2 to 3 oil changes.

How many here change or even check the tranny fluid?
Remember, a tranny costs just as much as an engine.
"Pontiac Vibe, built by Toyota, same thing as a Toyota Matrix"

Not true.

The Vibe is made by GM in California and Toyota makes the Matrix in Canada. There are quite a few differences. The body parts are NOT interchangeable... and if you follow owner reviews, The Vibe has more issues than the Matrix.

from Wikipedia

The Pontiac Vibe is a compact hatchback automobile that was sold by Pontiac from 2002 to 2010. It was jointly developed by General Motors along with Toyota, who manufactures the mechanically similar Toyota Matrix.

I have a '05 Matrix AWD (I bought it 2 years ago, it now has 240K miles).
As to oil changes, I change it twice a year (Spring and Fall) 5w30 for summer driving and 5w20 for Minnesota's winters.
I don't put many miles on it (about 3k per year). I use the cheapest motor oil (with api grade SL spec) Fleetfarm does a rebate sale where oil is about $1 per Qt ...and I replace the oil filter with a Toyota branded one, every other oil change (the Fall change). The oil always looks like new, If I pre-clean the drain pan, I usually save the oil for the lawn mower. I did a tranny fluid drain/refill when I got it, and will probably do it again if I put another 25K miles on it?

I haven't owned my 2000 chev truck long enough to do a change yet, but my previous truck got a oil change once a year, I only put about 1k miles per year on a secondary vehicle.

[garym1a2]

I had a new 2009 Toyota matrix. I changed the oil every 5k miles(Mobil 1). Car was a stick shift and was very reliable, Only time it failed was a/c compressor at 134k miles and a/c fan at 182k miles. Its now a friends car with 191k miles on it and gets driven over 100 miles a day, 4 days a week.

[Plate plinker]

Really, does it take a pro to do a drain & fill?

Heck it doesn't even take a pro to change the filter and refill.

Been doing it for 30 years now.

What could possible be wrong or improper with a drain and fill to ones tranny.

It only keeps approx 1/2 of the fluid new and fresh.

Again when was the last time anyone has had a complete tranny flush and fill on schdual?

I have a few times. And not really knocking your method but I like the idea of 1 to 1 fluid exchange. Changing it your way probably gets results since you are doing it often enough. remember ATF absorbs water, therefore it is good to get rid of the water. I think it is apples and oranges, butt in the end its all fruit.

[samari46]

Been changing my own oil since I started driving. Every 3000 miles with the old type oil and same for the 2006 GMC Sierra I have now. Course with only 22000 miles on the clock I have been using 5w 30 in the Sierra. A long trip for me now is about 50 or so miles. Just had the radiator flushed and fluid replaced as it uses the red type fluid. Belts and hoses replaced at the same time as well. As you can see my driving is somewhat different than some of the members here as I'm 70 and don't get around as much as I used to. Back when I worked 200 plus miles a week plus side trips and the numbers added up fast. Now not so much but even with the full synthetic still 3000 miles or so. Think in the ten or so years the change oil warning came up on the truck once. Grease job usually when I get the oil changed or if I can get my butt under the truck which ever comes first. In the 40 something years I've been driving never had an engine related problem. Back when they had carburators did have a few hiccups. Now with fuel injection and fuel filter changes cannot remember a problem. They kid me about the 10 year old truck with less than 25k on the clock. But there might be a few arguments about who gets it when I'm pushing up daisies. Tires were replaced two years because of checking and cracking due to exposure to UV rays. Got a few years to go on them. Frank

[jcwit]

"Pontiac Vibe, built by Toyota, same thing as a Toyota Matrix"

Not true.

The Vibe is made by GM in California and Toyota makes the Matrix in Canada. There are quite a few differences. The body parts are NOT interchangeable... and if you follow owner reviews, The Vibe has more issues than the Matrix.

from Wikipedia


I have a '05 Matrix AWD (I bought it 2 years ago, it now has 240K miles).
As to oil changes, I change it twice a year (Spring and Fall) 5w30 for summer driving and 5w20 for Minnesota's winters.
I don't put many miles on it (about 3k per year). I use the cheapest motor oil (with api grade SL spec) Fleetfarm does a rebate sale where oil is about $1 per Qt ...and I replace the oil filter with a Toyota branded one, every other oil change (the Fall change). The oil always looks like new, If I pre-clean the drain pan, I usually save the oil for the lawn mower. I did a tranny fluid drain/refill when I got it, and will probably do it again if I put another 25K miles on it?

I haven't owned my 2000 chev truck long enough to do a change yet, but my previous truck got a oil change once a year, I only put about 1k miles per year on a secondary vehicle.

Well the engine and drive train is made completely by Toyota and my Vibe was made in the Canadian plant per the door sticker!

Per Edmonds

The Pontiac Vibe began life as a Toyota Matrix twin and ended it as the answer to a trivia question: "What is the only Pontiac model to be produced for the 2010 model year?" That's right -- while all other Pontiac models went the way of the dodo after GM's 2009 bankruptcy fiasco, the Vibe stuck around for a last hurrah. It's gone now, though, and that's a real shame. Of all the compact cars that wore Pontiac badges, the Vibe was by far the best.
Smart packaging is what made this small wagon desirable, as the Vibe combined clean styling, a roomy interior and exceptional utility under one affordably priced roof. A peppy powertrain was another welcome feature. The fact that the Vibe also got above-average fuel economy and had a solid reputation for reliability only added to its appeal among budget-minded consumers.
There were two generations of the Pontiac Vibe. Both are distinctive in appearance without looking overdone and resemble a sporty four-door hatchback rather than a frumpy station wagon. The Vibe offered a lot of functionality for not a lot of money, and Toyota-sourced parts and powertrains counted as another point in its favor. Despite Pontiac's demise, the Vibe should enjoy a long life on the used-car market.
Most Recent Pontiac Vibe
Produced for 2009-'10 only, the second-generation Pontiac Vibe is the corporate twin of the Toyota Matrix. What this means for pre-owned models is that the Vibe has reliable Toyota genes and will likely provide years of dependable service.


Per Yahoo

First of all, by what you said I can tell your husband knows NOTHING at all about cars, he is plain average American that way. (and if your the husband and you do read this, dont take it personally as I dont know you, but I know you will be glad if you read this whole answer as it will change your mind and put your wife in a better car). Comparing the Matrix and the Vibe is like comparing Pepsi and Coke, they are both the same thing, but once you dig deeper you notice all the little differences. Toyotas quality has been slipping, and has had more recalls in '06 than any other company. This site has lots of info, as well as the excuses Toyota exutives give for their lameness and say how they plan to "improve" Toyota. http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/20... (http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/10/toyota_quality.html)
While Toyota has been falling, GM has risen, sweeping NACTOY awards for best car and truck (Chevy Silverado and Saturn Aura)
There are no major differences between the Matrix and Vibe besides the exterior styling, they are even built on the same plant. However, the Vibe does have more options, as well as standard options, and a longer warranty. Here are the details: http://www.vehix.com/research/comparison... (http://www.vehix.com/research/comparisonTool.aspx?condition=1&year=2007&make=1600000000002F&model=Vibe&radius=75&zip=80130)
My dads Saturn SL2 has lasted 15 years and still runs like new, and until last year Saturn has been GM's junk division, so a Pontiac should be at least that good, if not better. With the Vibe, your money also stays in the country, and helps a company that is rising back up by doing things the way they should have.

For all intents and purposes mechanally they are in fact the same.

[jcwit]

BTW. the odometer even stops at 299,999 on both vehicles!

[Josh Smith]

It's real diffucult to do a drin and fill.

Remove the plug, drain, refill with fresh fluid.

When was the last time you did a full fluid flush and fill?

Sir,

The last time I did that was in 1997 when I was working as a professional. Maybe once or twice since, but no more.

Because I no longer do auto technology professionally, I get to choose what I want to do. I prefer top-end engine work, computer controls, some carburetor. (I've not run a carb forever, not since my '76 CJ5 I bought at 18. I put a 390cfm Holley vacuum secondaries with stub stack on it. I was going long runners for low-end torque. I also find those old computer-controlled carbs fascinating; always have, and was trained on them when they were still relatively common, alongside throttle body injection and earlier multiport injection.)

I got spoiled all those years ago by lifts, and just don't find pleasure in laying on my back in the driveway changing fluid and filter.

Given that I can get it done for 50 bucks, I'm willing to pay it. Especially since I am allowed in the couple shops I trust, and I get to inspect the underside of my beloved Blazer every time. They have no issue with me reading the tranny fluid, either, or anything else. Sometimes I end up teaching since some of the mechanics are kids in school for auto technology. I really enjoy that.

It's important that I know how to completely rebuild my entire vehicle from the ground up, and I have a few times. Not this Blazer, but my CJ5, and a friend and I built his two hotrods.

(I'm not talking about what are considered hotrods today by kids; I mean a 327 with radical cam and single plane intake etc in a 1980 Chevy Malibou we restored, and a couple years later, a 383 stroker in a 1985 Camaro we likewise restored. The only thing faulty with either of those cars was that my friend didn't understand the importance of subframe connectors and therefore didn't invest in them. We ended up holding the doors closed when we'd street race so they wouldn't fly open when the body and frame torqued! :D Those were fun times.)

Regards,

Josh

[jcwit]

Fifty bucks is not a little amount of money to me as I'm on a VA pension.

At 73 I make the cash stretch as far as I can!

But likely will not need to worry about that much longer.

[Idaho45guy]

I'm 48 and an old hot rodder, so I've been working on engines and doing everything from oil changes to full engine rebuilds since I was a teen. I use Mobil 1 and Bosch oil filters and change them every 7k miles.

The last time I had an engine issue related to cylinder wear or other internal damage was in 1994. It was a `70 Torino GT with the 351C 4v motor that was burning oil and fouling plugs. Valves were shot. Factory compression ratio was 10.7:1 and the motor had 86k miles on it. It was just plain wore out.

All of my newer vehicles have oil that still looks pretty clean after 7k miles. The old V8s from the 60's and 70's had oil that was dirty and nearly black after just 3k miles.

Modern V8s are so much better than what I learned on in the 80's. I'm amazed that my 1/2-ton 4x4 pickup has 400hp and gets 20mpg on the highway while being faster than most muscle cars from the 60's.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Everything I've read, states the Vibe was assembled in Cali, Now maybe Toyota made all the engine/drivetrains for the Vibe in Canada? and maybe that is what your door sticker is referencing?



Vibes ...used the same Toyota-sourced platform and 1.8-liter four-cylinder engines.
http://www.guideautoweb.com/en/articles/3357/pontiac-vibe-vs.-toyota-matrix-six-of-one-a-half-dozen-of-the-other/

The body components and much of the equipment/controls are not the same between the two brands. But, if it makes you feel better, to think the Vibe is the same as the Matrix, I guess I won't stop you. IMHO, they are not the same.

[jcwit]

Believe as you wish! Try buying parts from Toyota, they are less expensive there.

Same running gear, different body, like comparing a Chevy to a Buick, same running gear, different badge!

[shoot-n-lead]

3000 miles at 35 mph is easier than 3000 miles at 70 mph since the engine is working harder at higher rpms.

NO...it is not...the engine runs twice as many hours for the same amount of miles.

Most modern vehicles are only turning 1700rpms or so, at 70mph.

[TexasGrunt]

How does it tell you? My 2013 Tundra doesn't have an oil life monitor, but it is probably a base model. It gets an oil change at 10K miles whether it needs it or not.

Sorry about that. Should have been Tahoe.

[Josh Smith]

I'd kinda like a CJ2a.

Josh

[Lloyd Smale]

I'm a bit old school and allways changed my oil at 3k. Last couple new trucks I bought came with 3 free oil changes. took the 2015 in after the first 3k and the service tech about told me to go home. He said I was nuts and that's the chevy garage! He said don't even consider it till 5k. I told him id at least like this oil change to be done because its a new motor and is breaking in. He said that thinking is as old as 3k oil changes. total waste of time and money. this is a service manager that I know personaly. not someone hoping my engine calfs in 60k so I have to buy a new truck. He said most people up here where theres condensation from winter driving should get the oil changed every 5-7 k but if you live where the temp swings aren't so drastic you could easily go 10k. Like was said. Engines have improved drastically in the last 20 years and so have oils. Biggest thing you can do for yourself today is buy a quality oil filter. theres a big difference in some of the good ones and the cheap generics. the service manager did tell me that the oil life reading on these vehicles isn't a good thing to rely on. Many times oil life is much longer then the guage will tell you and other situations where you drive in extreme cold or heat or high dust areas it isn't sensitive enough to depend on. He recommended I either go with 5k or look to change about when the oil life says 30 percent. Said that was REAL conservative. Like some others too, I used to change my own oil. But when I can get it done without crawling under my truck, getting dirty, getting oil on everything and have a qualified tech look over the rest of my vehicle for an extra 15-20 bucks it just doesn't make sense. I still wont go to a quick lube where teen agers are doing the work. I go to either my dealer or a local mechanic. Most times at 5k I'm ready for a tire rotation too and it doesn't cost much more to have them do that. I think the last time I had the jeep done it was 50 bucks for a synthetic blend change, filter, balance and rotation. If I had to buy the oil and filter it would cost half that. So 25 bucks extra maybe twice a year. I piss away more then that on a pack of gas checks. pretty cheap insurance for a truck that cost more then I paid for my home.

[alamogunr]

One thing I haven't noticed in this thread is mention of crankcase capacity. My 1998 F-150 required 5 quarts. The 2013 Tundra needs 8 quarts. I don't know anything about other late model trucks but assume that most are more than 5 quarts. I know that the big over the road diesels measure crankcase capacity in gallons. Have they also gone to synthetic?

[waksupi]

I had the oil changed in my '95 Mercury Tracer yesterday. They said it has a severe oil leak. Strange, no oil on the ground where it's been parked, and may need a quart added every 3000 miles or so. What's up with that? Think they buggered something?

I'm not going to put money in to fixing it, I've more than got my money's worth out of it.

[John Allen]

I use good filters, synthetic oil and change it every 5000 miles.

[ole 5 hole group]

Mobil 1 is mainly a very high grade petroleum oil, it is not a full synthetic but still is a great oil. Amsoil, Royal Purple and a few others are full synthetic. Oils coming from Germany saying full synthetic are full synthetic. Mobil 1 sued Castol many years ago over their false advertising of synthetic oil - courts ruled as long as the oil contained some parts of synthetic it could be called synthetic - buyer beware.

I run Amsoil and their oil filters, I change once a year - normal driving now is 12,000/14,000 miles a year - my '01 sequoia is closing in on 300,000 miles. Doesn't use oil and no engine problems. I've been using Amsoil since the mid/late 1970's and change once a year - several vehicles and 2 pickups since have never used oil or had engine problems - all ran over 180,000 miles, some went a tad over 250,000 miles.

I started running dual oil filters in 2001 with the Sequoia & Tundra - probably not necessary and an added expense for the by-pass filter but it makes me sleep better.;)

I change tranny fluid myself every 75,000 miles - that's a complete flush using Amsoil synthetic tranny fluid. Drop the pan, as the pan bolt is recessed and the pan still holds almost a quart of fluid when it stops dripping. Replace pan and add 6 quarts of tranny fluid. Disconnect the upper tranny cooler line (discharge), run the motor for a couple seconds pumping out 2 quarts of fluid at a time - replace with new tranny fluid and repeat until you have pumped out all the old fluid from the torque converter - on my Sequoia I pump out and replace 10 quarts.

If one just wants to do a pan flush - flush every 30,000 to 36,000 miles and you should be golden.

That's what I've done/do and recommend to all who ask but each to their own, as there are some lemons out there and nothing you do will make a difference.;)

[jmort]

Mobil 1 is a "full" synthetic per API definition. It is just a marketing term. Some Mobil synthetic varients are group III, but Mobil 1 is group IV
Redline is probably closest to the fullest synthetic, but that does not make it best for all applications.
Regardless, Mobil 1 is a full synthetic as that term is defined by API.
Lot nonsense about synthetic oil out there.
AMSOIL buys some of their bases from.....Mobil
There are some real good group III oils.
Just get a decent oil and the best synthetic oil filter you can find.
The AMSOIL drones/"dealers" are getting a good product, but it is not the ne plus ultra.

[robg]

When petrol motors start to burn oil its usually the valve stem seals gone not the rings etc these days.

[DerekP Houston]

I leave transmission services up to the professionals.

Josh

I do a 3qt drain and refill on my civic every 15k or so. Depends on the vehicle but none of the ones I've owned recommend power flushing the transmission anymore.

[Lloyd Smale]

yup the jeep holds 7 and the Silverado 8. Bound to last longer then the same engine pushing 5 around. As to diesels. My son in law is a diesel mechanic and he said 90 percent of diesel trucks he services and knows about use conventional shell Rotella.
One thing I haven't noticed in this thread is mention of crankcase capacity. My 1998 F-150 required 5 quarts. The 2013 Tundra needs 8 quarts. I don't know anything about other late model trucks but assume that most are more than 5 quarts. I know that the big over the road diesels measure crankcase capacity in gallons. Have they also gone to synthetic?

[Lloyd Smale]

could be your front or rear main seal. they tend to leak when the motors running. Still should be some oil on the ground though from its getting on everything under your vehicle. I once had a olds cutlass with the crappy first gen 3.8 motor. It would go through a quart of oil every 300-500 miles and didn't smoke a bit. Modern ignition systems have spark power strong enough to burn it off fairly cleanly. If it puffs smoke at start up its probably your valve seals. Biggest problem with todays vehicles is moisture. Lots of guys install catch cans like the racers use these days to keep it from getting it and blow by oil sucked through your intake manifold and coating your valves. With direct injection you loose the spray of gasoline from the fuel injector that used to wash the valves.
I had the oil changed in my '95 Mercury Tracer yesterday. They said it has a severe oil leak. Strange, no oil on the ground where it's been parked, and may need a quart added every 3000 miles or so. What's up with that? Think they buggered something?

I'm not going to put money in to fixing it, I've more than got my money's worth out of it.

[dbarry1]

Oil change every 3,000 miles just like Dad. He's always said, it the cheapest maintenance you'll ever do (on the most expensive component).

[nicholst55]

I'd kinda like a CJ2a.

Josh

I used to own a '49 CJ2A, that had a '59 OHV 4-cylinder dropped in. It would climb walls - not quickly, as it was very low-geared, but it would climb walls!

[MaryB]

I had a 53 Willy's Utility Wagon, someone had transplanted a Ford 289 into it. Thing had 4 shift levers, the 4 speed, transfer case high/low, 2wd/4wd, and an added on under/overdrive so it could do 55 on the highway. In 4wd low low it would crawl on its own at 2mph... and basically would crawl over just about anything.

[finstr]

Wow, so much talk here! I've been a automotive technician for over 30 years now. Spent 15 years with Toyota. I was there when the recommended oil change interval went from 6,000 to 8,000 due 100% to customers complaining about service cost. Toyota changed NOTHING other than the numbers on paper. No re-engineering, no upgraded oils, nothing. Still the engines would easily go 500,000.
People brag about what's best for their engine and how many miles they can drive it only to trade it in at 250k or scrap it at 350k.
So ask yourself, how far do you really want to drive the same car? Most people get tired of driving them long before the engine expires. are you willing to keep the rest of the car in running order until that day comes? I certainly won't .
By the time the engine is truly worn out the car will need FAR more repairs than it's worth to keep it on the road. Suspensions, body work, cooling systems, brakes, rotten fuel lines etc are the biggest reasons people scrap cars. Most engines are still serviceable regardless of oil change intervals or brand of oil used.

Jus' sayin....

ps..changing oil often reduces oil leaks long term by keeping the seals soft. It's a fact.

[mold maker]

I traded my 73 Suburban in on an 03 Dodge crew cab. The Suburban had served me faithfully for 30 years with only a trany rebuild. It had over 300K and was still serviceable.
I've already spent more in repairs on the 03 Dodge than in the life of the chevy. As soon as the warranty expired so did the dependability. Heater core at $700, and then the cooling radiator at $377. The differential lost 2 gears and a trans cooling line let go next.
The vehicle only has 73K on it, but we'll never be able to afford driving it 30 years.
BTW, the Chevy had regular 3K oil changes with 10 W 30 Castrol, and the Dodge has only seen synthetic 5 W 30 on a 4K interval. After reading this thread and considering I'll only likely drive another 5-10 years the changes may get extended.

[alamogunr]

Just to add to finstr's post above. We recently bought a 2017 Toyota Avalon top of the line. It replaced an 11 year old Avalon. Since wife and I are in our 70's, we decided to go for all the bells & whistles. Not necessarily a good move. I will never get used to all the computerized stuff on this car. I do admit that some of the safety features(warnings about drift over the center line, car in the blind spot, etc) is good.

I checked the cost to repair some of the computer related stuff and it is more than engines used to cost. For that reason I purchased the extended warranty on those items. If I don't use the warrenty, most of the cost is refunded. My usual policy is to not buy extended warranty's and it has always worked out since no vehicle in the last 20 years has ever had a major engine or transmission problem.

We drove the '96 Toyota 200K miles before replacement and the '06 Toyota 140K miles before the '17 Avalon, all with no major problems and everything worked. Given our ages, the '17 will have even less mileage if we survive 10 years but I don't anticipate any engine or transmission problems. AND, I will take it back to the dealer for oil changes at least once a year.

As for oil changes on the previous cars, the '96 got conventional oil every 5K, the '06 got synthetic every 8-10K. Since I did my own changes, it was nice not to have to crawl under the car every 3,000 or 5,000 miles.

As a side note, the 1996 Avalon still had the original brake shoes when I sold it. Admittedly, this is a comment on both our driving habits and a lucky draw on the brake shoes. But it is unusual.

[rosewood]

[QUOTE=redneck1;4013012]
i drove it for 9 years , in 9 years it never had an oil change , every 5000 miles or so it would need a quart top off .
/QUOTE]

I call this the "continuous oil change plan". This is usually necessary for vehicles that were not properly maintained and the rings are now so worn it burns a lot of oil or it has excessive leaks. Generally changing the oil regularly from day 1 will reduce the chances of this.

Rosewood

[anothernewb]

For a while I got the mod bug on cars. Went the whole route on the oil analysis. Spent about as much money on blackstone, as I did on reloading components during the panic.

Without going into long winded boring - and generally redundant specifics about bases and other matierials (there's enough information out there for anyone to be an instant keyboard warrior expert on it...not to mention spending several days of your life that you will never get back -making your head hurt and your eyes bleed) Oil is pretty darn good these days - across the board

The bottom line I got - was that any quality synthetic held it's important properties far longer than most oil change intervals. But it still picks up dirt. There is compelling evidence to be said for the filter change and top off method. Modern oils, and modern engines will go longer than the 3k miles of yesteryear. Tolerances are tighter, gas is cleaner, filters are better. All of it contributes.

The one thing I saw consistent across the board is the engines. Those engines with large oil capacities relative to displacement - are always the longest running ones around. I think in the process of analyzing oil properties - it's easy to miss the effect capacity has on cooling and protecting the engines.

[Lloyd Smale]

sounds like a cool jeep mary. Id love to have it to play with today.
I had a 53 Willy's Utility Wagon, someone had transplanted a Ford 289 into it. Thing had 4 shift levers, the 4 speed, transfer case high/low, 2wd/4wd, and an added on under/overdrive so it could do 55 on the highway. In 4wd low low it would crawl on its own at 2mph... and basically would crawl over just about anything.