Lee REAL boolit question

[GL49]

I just purchased my first muzzleloader last week, it's a 50cal. TC Hawken with a 1 in 48 twist barrel. I was thinking about getting a Lee REAL mould to start with, they make a 250gr. and a 320gr. I can get a combination 320gr. and round ball combo in one mould, do you have any opinions or experience about which may be best? I'm planning on a muzzleloader elk hunt in November, if things work out OK.
Will the slow twist stabilize the heavier boolit? I don't have a clue. Any advice on where to get reading information about muzzleloaders? Thanks in advance for any info/insights.
Larry

[rodwha]

My usage is rather limited, but I have a 1:48" twist .50 cal Lyman Deerstalker that I had been working with to break in using PRB. I had been curious about conicals and purchased some 320 grn Lee REALs. Having read that these often need a felt wad to shoot well I punched some. I used my typical 70 grns of 3F without a wad first, and at 50 yds it keyholed and was no less than a foot to the left and low. A felt wad and two more tries put them nearly touching and just below the bull. I bought a mold after that!

I can't tell you for sure if they do well at 100 yds or more though, and that was just 3 shots total, which truly doesn't say much at all.

I also bought a 250 grn mold from a fellow here as I intend on buying a Plains Pistol as well. I sent out the cast REALs he sent me to a fellow's dad who has a flintlock wanting to go elk hunting last year. I have plenty to do for the next few weeks, but if you give me your address and some time I can produce a sampling for you to try out.

As an aside I've read how a few people hunt elk with a .50 cal PRB effectively but keep their range rather short (50 yds). And those who hunt deer typically get a complete pass through on a broadside shot well beyond 100 yds. Not sure what kind of penetration that would give on something larger like an elk though...

[archeryrob]

Rodwha, what patch material and punch did you use? I have a bunch I casted and want to play with.

[54bore]

I used my typical 70 grns of 3F without a wad first, and at 50 yds it keyholed and was no less than a foot to the left and low. A felt wad and two more tries put them nearly touching and just below the bull. I bought a mold after that!

Geez! Keyholed at 50 Yards? I wouldn't have thought them to key that fast out of the gate? I just got started with 3F powder (Thank you rfd!!) had been using 2F up until a few months ago, So far 70 Grains of 3F in 45, 50, and 54 is a winner!! I bought a new can of Olde Eynsford 3F yesterday to compare against my Swiss 3F, I will be doing chronograph testing, accuracy, consistency, etc. between the 2 powders. I know its been done by others, just wanna do it for myself.

[bubba.50]

Lee R.E.A.L. bullets have worked well for me in every T/C I've ever shot them in. have never used the wads some seem to prefer as I never saw a need for them. I use the longer, heavier ones in my T/C's and the lighter ones in my roundball twist guns.

[Good Cheer]

For the .50 REAL's, what's the hottest yall have been able to push them, accurately enough for deer at a hundred?

[tomme boy]

90 gr of 3f but that was my gun and my lead.

[bubba.50]

90gr equivalent of Pyrodex RS made three shot cloverleafs at 75yds in my .54cal Renegade when I did my part.

[rodwha]

Rodwha, what patch material and punch did you use? I have a bunch I casted and want to play with.

For patch material I've used 0.015-6" pillow ticking I've bought online. Those were lubed with grape seed oil as SWMBO got pissed when she saw me looking at her olive oils. She gets some sort of expensive stuff she says so maybe I'll buy some cheaper stuff, though I've also been wanting to try cut Ballistol and Gatofeo's #1 lube that I use for everything else.

Not sure if you were truly asking about the patches so I'll include the felt wads. Those are 1/8" hard felt from Durofelt, and the punches I have are custom from a retired machinist on a traditional forum. He makes them a little oversized as you want a tight fit. I don't know exactly but I'd guess it's no less than .525" as my grooves are supposedly .520".

[rodwha]

Geez! Keyholed at 50 Yards? I wouldn't have thought them to key that fast out of the gate? I just got started with 3F powder (Thank you rfd!!) had been using 2F up until a few months ago, So far 70 Grains of 3F in 45, 50, and 54 is a winner!! I bought a new can of Olde Eynsford 3F yesterday to compare against my Swiss 3F, I will be doing chronograph testing, accuracy, consistency, etc. between the 2 powders. I know its been done by others, just wanna do it for myself.

It was a perfect sideways hit. Crazy! I'm guessing as my bore is meant for PRB with deeper grooves the pressures going around it may play on it. I didn't notice and leading issues but I also wasn't looking for it.

Seeing others testing of Olde E is what made me use it. I don't like weak powder as I share it with my cap n ball pistols too, which need all the horse power they can get to be humane for hunting with, and powerful enough if I need to track something with tusks or teeth!

I'm not sure if it will necessarily outperform Swiss but it seems to do a good job keeping up, and for me the savings comes into play as well, though if I ever buy a pocket pistol I may just need 4F and only Swiss makes that...

I can't wait to read of your test results!

[rodwha]

For the .50 REAL's, what's the hottest yall have been able to push them, accurately enough for deer at a hundred?

I just used the same 70 grn 3F charge I had been when shooting PRB to break it in. That should be plenty for deer beyond 100 yds according to the calculator and estimated velocity. IdahoRon has tested them and found them to have a BC of 0.189. Another fellow used a formula to figure the BC of the 250 grn version to be about 0.148 IIRC.

[rodwha]

Using Hodgdon's Triple 7 data as it has shown to give similar velocities (usually on the slower side) to Swiss and Olde E, and looking at the 350 grn T/C Maxi, which shoots at 1422 fps with 80 grns of 2F or about 72 grns of 3F. But since the REAL is 320 grns it ought to go a bit faster so I bumped it up to 1450 fps.

At the muzzle we get 1494 ft/lbs, at 50 yds it has 1208 and is 2.2" high, at 100 yds it has 994 and is dead on, at 125 yds it has 912 and is -3.3", and at 150 yds it has 844 and dropped -8.4". With a 125 yd zero it would be highest around 75 yds at 3.8" and would be -4.3" at 150 yds.

[Hellgate]

You want to be sure your lead is plenty hot enough to fill out the driving bands on those R.E.A.L. bullets. If they are not sharp they won't engrave or engage the riflings enough to impart a spin. If they load too easily they are not engraving enough and the bullet could get canted and will come out wobbling.