Lesson learned about shippng primed brass

[ghh3rd]

I am sending someone some .222 brass for a PIF, but almost half of them (57 pieces) are loaded. I heard that the USPS wouldn't accept live rounds, so I pulled them apart. I don't have a depriming die or shell holder for .222 though. I found out today that the USPS will not accept primed brass.

I figured no problem, I'll just switch to UPS ... I've heard that they accept primed brass. Well, after speaking to them (twice) I learned that UPS will only accept primed brass if I have a contract with them and ship it as hazardous material. On a weird note, they said that if the ammo was fully assembled and ready to shoot, I could send it through them no problem ... no paper work, no fees. This seems very counter intuitive to me, since a round with a primer AND gunpowder seems more dangerous to me than a round with just a primer. :???:

I am going to look for a creative way to deprime these 57 pieces without losing any fingers.

Lesson - better to leave ammo intact if you are mailing it and cannot deprime it.

Randy

[flyingmonkey35]

just use a decaping pin and any shell holder. Slow prussue on it will pop the primer out

Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk

[M-Tecs]

Can't do it through USPS but no hazmat for FedEx or UPS. These regs are still current. Take the regs to the UPS and talk to the supervisor not the front line idiot you spoke too.

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/mailing-shipping-primed-brass-the-regs-and-the-law.3812580/

Hello everyone -

Since this is my favorite forum, I feel compelled to share with all of you the REAL low-down on the laws and regs surrounding the shipment of primed brass.

After a ton of confusion, misinformation (on other blogs) and general assumptions regarding the shipment of primed brass, here are the particulars/facts and the regs that back it up. I have confirmed all of this with UPS and FedEx's hazmat shipping folks and they all confirmed.

FOR UPS AND FEDEX ONLY -

Cases, primed (up to and including 50 caliber) are regulated for shipment by ground only through 49CFR § 172.102 SP(special provision) 50 that states:
" Cases, cartridge, empty with primer which are made of metallic or plastic casings and meeting the classification criteria of Division 1.4 are not regulated for domestic transportation"
49CFR § 172.102 (page 312) - http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2010-title49-vol2/pdf/CFR-2010-title49-vol2-sec172-102.pdf

Primed cases meet the classification criteria of Division 1.4c UN0379 - however they are exempted and classified as NON-REGULATED (NOT ORM-D, NOT HAZ-MAT, NOT the new "Y" Limited Quantities classification that will replace ORM-D). Some manufacturers (as per the MSDS) classify their primed cases as UN0055, but the same DOT 1.4c classification applies, as does SP50.

Packaging for primed cases is regulated by 49CFR §173.62 - Packaging instruction #136, which specifies that the primed cases have to be in a bag or box, then packed in a UN 4G standard box - which is defined by 49 CFR §178.601 (g)(2). So - you can't just ship them to your buddy in a shoebox, but most of us out here have received boxes of reloading components from various vendors, and most/all of these shipping boxes meet this criteria. For more mind-bending regulatory details, refer to 178.601.
49CFR §173.62 - http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2011-title49-vol2/pdf/CFR-2011-title49-vol2-sec173-62.pdf
49 CFR §178.601 (g)(2) - http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2010-title49-vol2/pdf/CFR-2010-title49-vol2-sec178-601.pdf


There is no hazmat fee, extra paperwork, no sign-by-adult or other hoops to jump through - BUT - both UPS and FedEX advised me to clearly mark (with a sharpee) "non-regulated as per SP50" on the outside of the box to ensure that no in-transit problems occur..........because I guess their employees can be as confused as I have been on this subject and you don't want your box torn or ripped into.

As per both UPS and FedEx - You CANNOT take packages with primed cases to your local UPS/FedEx store or mom-and-pop drop off service. They must be taken to a UPS/FedEx corporate-run package hub that has walk-in/retail shipping services.

FOR US POSTAL SERVICE -

Prohibited. Period.
See page 160 at: http://pe.usps.com/cpim/ftp/pubs/pub52/pub52.pdf
***USPS Publication 52, Appendix A, "Cases, cartridge, empty with primer"***
They don't have to subscribe to all parts of 49CFR § 172.102's special provisions......because they are special I guess.


I hope this clears it up.

Best regards,
S
Shooter2112 (http://forum.accurateshooter.com/members/shooter2112.1284241/), Apr 16, 2013 (http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/mailing-shipping-primed-brass-the-regs-and-the-law.3812580/)

[reddog81]

I've received goobs of fired brass through USPS. With none of it has the packaging torn into and inspected. How would anyone ever know, be aware, want to investigate whether a package contained primed brass vs un-primed brass?

No X-ray machine would be able to tell the difference. I imagine any sort of testing for chemicals, explosives, gun powder, or other materials would be more likely to result in the fired cases to test positive.

Has anyone ever had a package of brass inspected while being transported by any of the carriers?

[2ndAmendmentNut]

I've received goobs of fired brass through USPS. With none of it has the packaging torn into and inspected. How would anyone ever know, be aware, want to investigate whether a package contained primed brass vs un-primed brass?

No X-ray machine would be able to tell the difference. I imagine any sort of testing for chemicals, explosives, gun powder, or other materials would be more likely to result in the fired cases to test positive.

Has anyone ever had a package of brass inspected while being transported by any of the carriers?

Maybe so but I would never risk jail time or heavy fines over a few dollars worth of brass. I have received packages from UPS and USPS that looked as though they had been golfed from the senders door to mine. Just imagine if a single primer blew during shipment? While the postal worker might not be in any real danger, I could already see the headline, "man sells high powered sniper ammunition through internet and illegally ships to unknown buyer."


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[ghh3rd]

I could already see the headline, "man sells high powered sniper ammunition through internet and illegally ships to unknown buyer.I don't think that "ignorance of the law" would help, either...

[MUSTANG]

Ignorance of the Law is a defense that only apply's the the Political Elite Like Hillary Clinton. The rest of us must abide by the constraints the Federal Government places on us. Identify the USPS restrictions and live within them or use another shipping route.

[square butte]

Did you take it to the "UPS Store" of the UPS hub? Different rules apply at each. The UPS Store is a franchise and is more restrictive - also cost more to ship there than at a UPS hub

[SSGOldfart]

It's also a felony.:groner: not going to work to say I didn't know?!!!!!!!!!!!

[duckey]

I have bought primes shotgun hulls through BPI and not paid the Hazmat through UPS

[ghh3rd]

I got my information by calling the UPS 800 number, who gave me their Hazmat 800 number, which I called twice to compare answers. Both associates told me the same thing... the first one was funny trying to explain why it was safer to have a completely assembled round rather than just having a primer.

In any case, I used one of my decappers, and very slowly pressed out each of those 57 little primers without making any noise, and they are in a USPS Priority box for tomorrow's mail.

Thanks

Randy

[runfiverun]

I have bought primes shotgun hulls through BPI and not paid the Hazmat through UPS

ditto with primed brass cases.
the primers are secured and no haz mat is required.

[P Flados]

FYI, on a recommendation for someone here at castboolits, I tried re-using some live primers I removed from range pickup live ammo. Got good results. Only appropriate for target practice or plinking ammo, but that describes most of my shooting.

[Bzcraig]

just use a decaping pin and any shell holder. Slow prussue on it will pop the primer out

Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk

Done many 100's this way over the years.

[M-Tecs]

For me I use the smell test rule for the information I am being given. First time I tried to ship primed brass I was the same BS answers. When I asked how the major mail order supply houses could ship primed brass with no hazmat I would get the deer in the headlight response. I had to push UPS to answer that for me. After they did anytime I get that BS I refer them to the Regs and then all is good.

http://www.hazmattool.com/specialprovisions.php?i=numeric&a=50
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2010-title49-vol2/pdf/CFR-2010-title49-vol2-sec172-102.pdf
50) Cases, cartridge, empty with primer which are made of metallic or plastic casings and meeting the classification criteria of Division 1.4 are not regulated for domestic transportation.


You normally go through the same BS when shipping a pre 1899 firearm.

I had one cleric at UPS threatening to have me arrested for trying to commit a felony. By the time that was over the hup supervisor had him apologize to me for me knowing his job better than he did. After that she removed him from the counter he went back to sorting.

[mdi]

FWIW; I've sent "machined parts" through the mail, and UPS. There was no powder for a bomb sniffer to find, and no inspection, ever...

[gwpercle]

I am sending someone some .222 brass for a PIF, but almost half of them (57 pieces) are loaded. I heard that the USPS wouldn't accept live rounds, so I pulled them apart. I don't have a depriming die or shell holder for .222 though. I found out today that the USPS will not accept primed brass.

I figured no problem, I'll just switch to UPS ... I've heard that they accept primed brass. Well, after speaking to them (twice) I learned that UPS will only accept primed brass if I have a contract with them and ship it as hazardous material. On a weird note, they said that if the ammo was fully assembled and ready to shoot, I could send it through them no problem ... no paper work, no fees. This seems very counter intuitive to me, since a round with a primer AND gunpowder seems more dangerous to me than a round with just a primer. :???:

I am going to look for a creative way to deprime these 57 pieces without losing any fingers.

Lesson - better to leave ammo intact if you are mailing it and cannot deprime it.

Randy

Laws , rules and regulations are NOT based on common sense !
The next person you speak with will probably tell you just the opposite . I get so tired of being told "you have to do this" ,so I do it , when I return it's "you can't do that ".... I want to strangle one of those idiots .
Do you remember the term " The man went POSTAL on us ".....now you know where it came from, some guy just snaps .
You can deprime primed cases , just do it very slowly...I've done thousands and never had one pop. It's not a big deal or dangerous, I use a single stage press and universal decapping die, you don't need to size when depriming so it gives you a better feel for how hard you are pushing and can feel the primer start to come out. Wear ear protection if you want.
Gary

[prestonj12]

All you need is to ship UPS. Not a store, but a real UPS location. Mark the box with the ORM-D symbol and ship away. Ground service rates. No problem.


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[M-Tecs]

All you need is to ship UPS. Not a store, but a real UPS location. Mark the box with the ORM-D symbol and ship away. Ground service rates. No problem.


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The correct marking for primed brass is:

"non-regulated as per SP50"

[JohnH]

Run the primers through your rifle and pop them. Then you can ship them no decapping, no labeling, no fuss no muss.

[tmc-okc]

M-Tecs, Good job !! I recently retired from operating my own"Mom & Pop" shipping store after 26 years of doing so. I was in contact almost daily with UPS, FedEx, USPS and DHL Internaional regarding their Rules, Regulations and Tariffs. I had to dig into these documents almost on a daily basis to disspell much of the BS they attempted to force upon me. As such I long ago came to one conclusion, and you can quote me on this -- The least knowledgeable person regarding any carriers Rules, Regulations, or Tariffs is the carriers representative..

If shipping via UPS take your items directly to the closest UPS Hub or Commercial Counter. That does not include The UPS Store. UPS Rules treat these franchised store owners almost exactly as they treated me as an independent UPS Authorized Ship Center (ASO). There are a multitude of items that are allowed to be shipped via the UPS Hub that are prohibited from being shipped at a The UPS Store or an ASO location such as mine. This all has to do with UPS rules and not city, state or federal laws..

Again -- Good job. Others would be wise to follow your advise..

Ron H

[AlexanderNickel]

M-Tecs, Good job !! I recently retired from operating my own"Mom & Pop" shipping store after 26 years of doing so. I was in contact almost daily with UPS, FedEx, USPS and DHL Internaional regarding their Rules, Regulations and Tariffs. I had to dig into these documents almost on a daily basis to disspell much of the BS they attempted to force upon me. As such I long ago came to one conclusion, and you can quote me on this -- The least knowledgeable person regarding any carriers Rules, Regulations, or Tariffs is the carriers representative..

If shipping via UPS take your items directly to the closest UPS Hub or Commercial Counter. That does not include The UPS Store. UPS Rules treat these franchised store owners almost exactly as they treated me as an independent UPS Authorized Ship Center (ASO). There are a multitude of items that are allowed to be shipped via the UPS Hub that are prohibited from being shipped at a The UPS Store or an ASO location such as mine. This all has to do with UPS rules and not city, state or federal laws..

Again -- Good job. Others would be wise to follow your advise..

Ron H

That's what I've been talking about for so long!!!