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cwheel
03-22-2017, 05:37 PM
Some exceptional collective minds here. In the year 2019 all hunting in California has to be with lead free bullets. Bad law, but for the people who live there and hunt there, are going to have to deal with this bad law somehow. I'm wondering if there is anything we could somehow cast something that would work with the existing equipment we have and comply with this new law that is fast approaching. Some jacketed bullets in common sizes are now available that comply with the less than 1% lead requirements, fairly expensive though. There are many less than common sizes that we routinely will just size to fit the bores, ( +.002 ) Many here doing it with excellent results, I do in 38-55 @ .381 for a older bore rifle with great results. I myself escaped from California many years ago, but still have a son and grandson there, I'm the reloader, this problem will come to my door quickly loading the ammo to hunt there. New problem all for hunters in CA, any ideas outside of moving to a free state ?? Thanks,
Chris

CPL Lou
03-22-2017, 07:15 PM
Expensive, but doable:

https://rotometals.com/lead-free-bullet-casting-alloy-88-bismuth-12-tin/

CPL Lou

ubetcha
03-22-2017, 07:55 PM
I wonder how this alloy will perform as far as expansion goes at different volicity and yardages

buckshotshoey
03-22-2017, 08:28 PM
Expensive, but doable:

https://rotometals.com/lead-free-bullet-casting-alloy-88-bismuth-12-tin/

CPL Lou

Very! $15.00 per pound!

JBinMN
03-22-2017, 08:29 PM
I deleted my original reply as it was pretty political.

Here is my non political reply:
;)

I would not pay the price of $14.99 + shipping to cast bullets due to what I consider a "knee jerk" law.

I dealt with this **** back in the late 70's in MInnesota about lead & waterfowl.

I would be happy to cast alternatives to lead if there is an economically feasible source of materials that hold the properties of lead. ( If bismuth was a buck a pound, then there would not be an issue , right?). Until then. NO way.

I think someone is out to make more than just a change to ecology here.... I think there is a $$ motivation to change things so folks can make a buck.

Too bad the Californians who this affects did not see it coming & put some opposition into the defense of their standards & way of life.

runfiverun
03-22-2017, 09:08 PM
I'd just work up a load for some 150gr barnes bullets for my 30-06 then buy 3 more boxes of them and be done with it.
if you shoot 150+ deer in California in your lifetime your probably going to jail for the rest of it anyway.

Texas by God
03-22-2017, 09:22 PM
I'd just work up a load for some 150gr barnes bullets for my 30-06 then buy 3 more boxes of them and be done with it.
if you shoot 150+ deer in California in your lifetime your probably going to jail for the rest of it anyway.
Very well put. Play with cast; hunt with mono whatever. Or move to a non Socialist state.

tazman
03-22-2017, 09:38 PM
Not certain what the laws are in California, but here, if you are outside of a shooting range or your house, you are considered to be hunting if you have a firearm in your possession and ammunition for it. Doesn't matter if on private or public land. Just practicing with cast or sighting in your gun with "illegal" ammunition would be actionable by law enforcement.
As always, a lot depends on the views of the individual officer who "apprehends" you.

Tenbender
03-22-2017, 09:51 PM
Move to Virginia but leave any liberal BS behind .

oldblinddog
03-22-2017, 10:00 PM
Those kind of laws are made just to aggravate sportsmen and women. No other reason than plain evil vindictiveness. R5R has the right answer.

skeeter2
03-22-2017, 10:02 PM
You can melt pennies and cast zinc bullets. They look really nice but are light for their size. Not sure how they shoot.

P Flados
03-22-2017, 11:27 PM
Deer hunting with cast boolits and without lead would:

A: Be a stupid "politically correct" thing to do with no real justification.

B: Be a challenge

C: Both

Correct answer is probably C whether we like it or not.

Think zinc. Zinc is very very cheap. Zinc would not be all that good for most existing guns, but might be Ok in some.

I can buy over the counter Zinc at a fraction of the cost of lead. The downside would be that casting temps would need to go up, upside is that Zinc probably can be used with no lube or coating. PC coating might improve the Zinc option, but I will not go into that at this point.

Just consider customizing a gun for "lead free" zinc based hunting, I am thinking of a very fast twist 44 or 45 gun (444 / 45-75 cartridges would seem obvious, but I actually like other choices) with a RNFN and a profile much longer than we are used to. "Effective" range would be less than lead, but would probably meet the needs of many.

If I were designing a gun/boolit for a RNFP in Zinc, the boolit would have a long bore riding nose, and the full diameter portion would be as short as possible. With a 45 Colt case and a very short full diameter portion I could push a very long OAL round to probably 1500 to 2000 fps or even more out of a carbine length single shot.

Provided that you just choose to go big bore and non-expanding, the only real questions would be working out the optimum twist and boolit profiles you need to be effective at your chosen distances.

Kevins750
03-22-2017, 11:42 PM
I am pretty sure whatever lead free bullet you use must be on an "OK list" on the fish and game website. They ask us to carry the original box that the ammo or bullets came in. I only reload for one caliber in lead free, the rest of the caliber's I buy commercial ammo.

https://www.wildlife.ca.gov/Hunting/Nonlead-Ammunition/Certified

Texas by God
03-23-2017, 12:12 AM
Not certain what the laws are in California, but here, if you are outside of a shooting range or your house, you are considered to be hunting if you have a firearm in your possession and ammunition for it. Doesn't matter if on private or public land. Just practicing with cast or sighting in your gun with "illegal" ammunition would be actionable by law enforcement.
As always, a lot depends on the views of the individual officer who "apprehends" you.
Albany, Springfield,&Sacremento. The liberal sandwich of lawmaking.

jessdigs
03-23-2017, 12:21 AM
Elvis Ammo on YouTube has been experimenting with casting zinc and getting good results. They are a little light though

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

finstr
03-23-2017, 07:29 AM
I'm with the Barnes bullet crowd. I've shot moose with them and they work really well out of the 338wm. I only shoot 5 or 6 rounds to check the zero and would be lucky to shoot one or two more at an animal per year. Not exactly expensive.

snowtigger
03-23-2017, 09:16 AM
Here in Alaska, I've never thought about it, but how about tin? Or pewter, REAL English pewter.

runfiverun
03-23-2017, 12:12 PM
I wouldn't use Tin.
I'd use zinc first.
Zinc boolits are nothing new they are lighter and a lot faster but lose energy [velocity] much quicker.
they used to be commercially available back in the late 50's early 60's and had some favorable reviews in a few gun magazines.
of course their caveat was keeping the shots within arrow range.
this was also back when a fancy bow was a recurve with a balance weight on it.

if I was pushed to use a cast projectile I'd be looking at hevi-shot real hard.

P Flados
03-23-2017, 01:52 PM
Not only does the land of fruits and nuts want lead free, their web site adds more special requirements:



While the Department has certified various nonlead alternative projectiles for hunting with firearms, big game may only be taken by rifles using centerfire cartridges with softnose or expanding projectiles. Projectiles designed as frangible (disintegrating) or fractional (separates into distinct parts) are not a legal method of take for big game species (as defined in Sections 350, 353 and 475(c), T14, CCR).

Sounds like they want lead free, centerfire rifles, softnose or expanding, but not frangible or fractional.

- What about shotguns or black powder
- What about traditional big bore non-expanding

From what I saw on the "lead free" vendor data sheets, many do not meet the other requirements for big game.

Expanding solid copper bullets are probably a reasonable technology but are expensive and have limitations. Given the limitations of solid copper, they really need to allow non-expanding big bore flat nosed.

clum553946
03-23-2017, 02:15 PM
What really gets expensive out here is varmint hunting. We can't just grab the 22 & squirrel hunt anymore! Lead free bullets for small calibers for reloading are cost prohibitive!

OuchHot!
03-23-2017, 02:54 PM
I recall when the famous name behind the non-lead hunting bullet wrote a white paper for the lib-left in CA proving that lead free bullets were available, highly functional, and no inconvenience to hunters to implement. His paper was widely circulated and used to defy the real world complaints. He then sold his company at a high $. To this day there is NO acceptable rimfire ammunition. The dodge being forced on muzzle loaders is just ridiculous.

Shiloh
03-23-2017, 03:11 PM
Just speculation, but using lead-free cast babbit boolits could lead to all kinds of problems.
You are shooting cast boolits. AA DNR warden thinks they are lead. Your equipment and firearms ar confiscated until a determination is made. You foot the bill to get your stuff back IF they let you have it back. THis is Kali. Land of fruit and nuts, environmentalists and totalitarian statists.

SHiloh

buckshotshoey
03-23-2017, 03:54 PM
And add this problem on top of it.....

Most of the alternatives will probably wound more animals then normal.

And I will bet the State of California exempted themselves from the ban also. All government agencies will still be using lead.

enfield
03-23-2017, 05:56 PM
I will buy up some land from CAST BOOLIT shooters quickly moving out of California and make a mint selling it back to liberal types.

TexasGrunt
03-23-2017, 06:09 PM
I recall when the famous name behind the non-lead hunting bullet wrote a white paper for the lib-left in CA proving that lead free bullets were available, highly functional, and no inconvenience to hunters to implement. His paper was widely circulated and used to defy the real world complaints. He then sold his company at a high $. To this day there is NO acceptable rimfire ammunition. The dodge being forced on muzzle loaders is just ridiculous.

I noticed some lead free .22 LR at Cabela's today.

Same as this stuff. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/953365521/cci-copper-22-ammunition-22-long-rifle-21-grain-copper-hollow-point-lead-free

It's available. Might not be acceptable to old farts though.

cwheel
03-23-2017, 07:38 PM
This hunting rifle my grandson is using there is a 7.62 X 39 Ruger Mini-30 ranch rifle. Normal calibers are available in non-lead so far, but of course expensive. So far, no one doing non-lead in that cal though. Thanks to the poster that mentioned what Roto-metals is selling for $15 per lb. But at that rate, it would almost end up being cheaper to buy jacketed. Was casting for it up to now with great results. Thinking that I'm going to have to choose non-leaded jacketed to reload for this rifle to hunt after 2019 there. Wonder how Fish and Game is going to know what bullets I've used in my home reloads ?? Are they going to try to outlaw reloaded rounds for hunting ?? Sure won't be the cases or the box I bought the ammo in. Another California anti hunting/shooting law for sure. Bet implementing this law is sure going to cause California hunters some problems.
Can you imagine having to " certify that your ammo is lead free " before being able to hunt with it ?? Just another bad law cranked out by liberals in Sacramento. Thanks to all for the ideas and comments.
Chris

runfiverun
03-23-2017, 09:46 PM
[AIRC] most all of those ranch rifles come with 308 barrels.
they just oversized the throats to handle the larger diameter 310 bullets.

P Flados
03-23-2017, 09:56 PM
For the reloader, the Barnes line (or equivalent) seem to run around $0.60 per bullet for typical sizes. As long as they shoot good in your rifle they seem to be the standard answer.

The "if they shoot good" qualifier I used above is based on bullet length. With the lower density copper, bullets have to be longer to get the same weight. Weight makes a big deal if you are trying to retain terminal ballitics at longer ranges. Longer bullets may need faster twist to shoot good.

rintinglen
03-23-2017, 10:08 PM
I am using Hornady unleaded. I was using Barnes until I found out that the fellow behind Barnes is the fellow that gave Sen McCarthy her justification for this asinine law.

Surfdog
03-23-2017, 11:00 PM
I live in Northern California and for a variety of reasons to do with Family, I'll not be able to leave for some time, and as a result I'm not content to follow the advice to leave.

So, I'm expecting to deal with the no-lead ultimatum by experimenting with the high dollar Rotometals Bismuth/tin alloy...Pure Tin...Babbit (where I can find it) and possibly Zinc.

I hunt with .44 magnum pistols, so I expect a 300gr solid of the above materials will work at typical bow ranges (which is typical of most of my handgun hunting experience.

For rifle, I'm in the process of getting together a .444 Marlin with a 1-20 twist. Again, I know the alloys will not be optimal, but I'll be damned if I sit in my chair and just whine, and I figure experimenting with a 400+ gr mold may yeild some positive results. I expect to be sorting through this over the next 4-5 months...I'll share my results along with comparisons and data with cast PB using the same molds too.

Too many people from outside the state of California have been happy to throw all Californians in the liberal left category. That is patently false. I can tell you that if it were not for the politics that have locked power in the cities of San Francisco, LA, San Diego and Sacramento...the vast majority of this state would look and vote just like most states in the midwest. Do not make the mistake of thinking all of California is hyper liberal...that is not true...but it is what the left wants you to believe, so you'll stop supporting the conservative people who are resident and still fighting.

Surfdog

Kevins750
03-24-2017, 01:12 AM
This hunting rifle my grandson is using there is a 7.62 X 39 Ruger Mini-30 ranch rifle. Normal calibers are available in non-lead so far, but of course expensive. So far, no one doing non-lead in that cal though. Thanks to the poster that mentioned what Roto-metals is selling for $15 per lb. But at that rate, it would almost end up being cheaper to buy jacketed. Was casting for it up to now with great results. Thinking that I'm going to have to choose non-leaded jacketed to reload for this rifle to hunt after 2019 there. Wonder how Fish and Game is going to know what bullets I've used in my home reloads ?? Are they going to try to outlaw reloaded rounds for hunting ?? Sure won't be the cases or the box I bought the ammo in. Another California anti hunting/shooting law for sure. Bet implementing this law is sure going to cause California hunters some problems.
Can you imagine having to " certify that your ammo is lead free " before being able to hunt with it ?? Just another bad law cranked out by liberals in Sacramento. Thanks to all for the ideas and comments.
Chris

i reload copper bullets from Barnes in .310 for a x39 AR. They are the only ones making a projectile in .310 that I have found. There is a company that sales reloaded ammo in that size and I believe it runs around $50+a box.

tazman
03-24-2017, 08:26 AM
Too many people from outside the state of California have been happy to throw all Californians in the liberal left category. That is patently false. I can tell you that if it were not for the politics that have locked power in the cities of San Francisco, LA, San Diego and Sacramento...the vast majority of this state would look and vote just like most states in the midwest. Do not make the mistake of thinking all of California is hyper liberal...that is not true...but it is what the left wants you to believe, so you'll stop supporting the conservative people who are resident and still fighting.

Surfdog

I understand your situation completely. I also live in a state dominated by a large, liberal city(Chicago) and have to deal with the problems they cause for the rest of the state. I am also not in a position to leave.
All you can do is the best you can do. Keep on working in your own best interest since the government obviously won't help with that. Big city solutions to big city problems don't work for rural areas which don't suffer from those same issues. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to get a big city liberal to leave you alone to live your life on your own terms.

I will be interested in hearing how your experiments with the non-lead alloys turn out. I may be needing that information myself soon.

bedbugbilly
03-24-2017, 11:16 AM
I really do feel for you guys/gals in Kalifornia. It seems to me that the legislature out there is bent on more and more control "of the people" and it makes us "deplorable" mid-westerners a bit confused on how the few rule the many . . . but I guess what I'm wondering is . . . . why would you even "follow" this law? I would think that if you went against it, your defense should be just as valid as the Republik of Kalifornia's defense for not following Federal law.

And I also agree with the comment that there is probably a greater motivation behind the law n terms of someone profiting from it by the sale of "alternative" metals . . . it would be interesting to see that backtracked and see who it leads to. Hopefully, if you have to go by this ruling, someone will come up with a good, cheap, alternative to cast from . . but in the end, while it may be the "tree huggers" wanting to do away with lead, I feel there is a much greater undercurrent in states like yours where the end goal is complete gun control and doing away with private ownership. i.e. If we can't take their guns we'll take their ammunition.

Just curious . . . if law abiding citizens in your state are not going to be allowed to use lead . . . I'm assuming LE will do away with jacketed projectiles with lead interiors?

flint45
03-24-2017, 11:34 AM
I to live in California once a great place to live but now sadly not anymore . Can't leave my family behind I have to much responsibility so right now not an option. They are just trying to stop hunting as much as they can it has nothing to do with the environment its all stupid, when liberals run a state the size of this one it is what you get. I will do what I have to do to live the way I want to they can all go jump in the sea. GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH!

cwheel
03-24-2017, 11:44 AM
It's good to know that Barnes took the other side in this fight and actually helped pass this ridiculous law. I'll be working up loads with something from Hornady this spring and see if I can get the grandson something usable to hunt with in the furure. This Mini 30 does have the .308 barrel, up to now have cast .310 and it shoots fine for that rifle. I do agree with Surfdog that the attitude in rural California is the same as the rest of the country. I lived and worked in CA for almost 50 years and know this to be true. For the most part, the population center cities pass most of these ridiculous laws. I voted with my feet and moved as soon as I could retire. It is a shame that city problems often overshadow some fine country values and traditions.
Chris

OuchHot!
03-24-2017, 02:58 PM
First, fire some .22LR lead free and see how it works. Thus far, I stand by my, experience based, conclusion that there is no acceptable lead free rim fire ammo.
Second, CA isn't the only place run by a quorum of fascists in the big cities. You folk need to dig in and fight because this BS is coming to you. It has nothing to do with lead in the environment or the condor or anything green. It is a globalist attack on firearms ownership. The first day of Sec. Zinke's administration, he revoked a last minute order by Obammie to ban lead based ammo and fishing tackle on all 81 million acres of US fish and wildlife service lands. You are all in this fight. You won that round, probably not knowing it was being fought, but it isn't the end of their attack.

Surfdog
03-24-2017, 08:58 PM
There is a big difference between passing stupid laws, enforcing stupid laws, and complying with stupid laws.

From what I've seen, the vast majority of hunters will comply with the laws in CA because they are...for the most part...legitimate law abiding people.

When push comes to shove, the big city politicians will be surprised one day when they discover that the majority of the state does not agree with the left's extreme policies regarding gun ownership, 2nd amendment rights and hunter's rights. The day will come, mark my word.

Surfdog

P Flados
03-25-2017, 01:39 AM
My condolences to all the victims of the big city influence. I had a good friend from New York (upsate that is) that was very much level headed and conservative. When the subject came up, he would share that during his decades as a resident of New York state, he was effectively "dis-enfranchized" at the state level in that he "allways voted even if it never mattered".

Surfdog

I applaud your attitude and steadfast intent to continue to use cast. I am a little concerned about the website statement that "big game may only be taken by rifles using centerfire cartridges with softnose or expanding projectiles". Am I misreading something? Is there a loophole? All reasonable individuals that know much of anything about hunting would quickly concede that a non-expanding 44 can get the job done just fine at reasonable ranges. The question is, what about those in charge of enforcing the rules.

Rintinglen,

If someone associated with a bullet company helped get this mess in place, it is pretty obvious that they should be "appropriately rewarded for their effort". Good documentation of the facts should be made availabe to the bullet buying public which would of course allow buyers to "reward" said company when they choose who they elect to send their money to.

Duckiller
03-25-2017, 02:59 AM
CCI makes lead free 22WRM ammo. Hard to find but it does exist. Before people do lots of experimenting on casting lead free boolits remember that lead free ammo must be approved by the DFW before you can shoot game with such projectiles. DFW will charge you a BUNCH of money to test your boo;its then probably not approve them, at least not the first time.The law is mainly to stop/slow down hunting in Calif. I have purchased 257, 7mm and 308 rifle boolits 38 and 44 revolver boolits. 30-30 lead free ammo is available. Haven't found any 32 Win Spec in lead free or 348 Win in lead free. Not all Barnes ammo is lead free. They still make good boolits for 348 Win that are lead based with heavy jackets. Not legal to hunt with in Cal.

rodwha
03-27-2017, 01:22 AM
I shoot muzzleloaders and cap n ball revolvers. Despite my lack of enthusiasm I was asked to consider moving there, and being that cap n ball pistols require a soft lead projectile I'm not so sure I could make them run. But then it seems none of my BP guns could be used to hunt with anyway.

Despite some great beers and huge trees I'm not so sure it's worth more than a quick visit...

Leadmelter
03-27-2017, 09:24 PM
The state is $30 Billion dollars in debt and is worried about 2 lrs. Jerry try fixing your dam and water issues.
We have lots of water in MI and the legislator know not to mess with sportsmen.
Good Luck
Leadmelter
MI

Plate plinker
03-27-2017, 09:36 PM
There is a big difference between passing stupid laws, enforcing stupid laws, and complying with stupid laws.

From what I've seen, the vast majority of hunters will comply with the laws in CA because they are...for the most part...legitimate law abiding people.

When push comes to shove, the big city politicians will be surprised one day when they discover that the majority of the state does not agree with the left's extreme policies regarding gun ownership, 2nd amendment rights and hunter's rights. The day will come, mark my word.

Surfdog

Good attitude get after it.

dbosman
03-27-2017, 09:44 PM
I've only done a quick search, but can't find this information. Can you help please?


I am using Hornady unleaded. I was using Barnes until I found out that the fellow behind Barnes is the fellow that gave Sen McCarthy her justification for this asinine law.

Bigslug
03-27-2017, 11:29 PM
Pop ordered up some of the Rotometals bismuth-based stuff for testing. Got it to where it's workable, but, at least as far as water jugs as a test medium go, you need to up the tin content to keep it from shattering. How it does in meat, I've got no idea.

We've pretty much decided that if it's a standard bore, shoot Barnes. They work great, and for hunting with the annual zero check, the cost is absorbable. Use cast to practice with. If you're wanting to plug a California critter with great granddad's .478 Odd Bore Express, figure on sucking it up and spending cash to contribute to the knowledge base - cuz I don't know of anyone yet who's dove headfirst into the non-lead hunting mosh pit.

JBinMN
03-28-2017, 09:02 AM
I've only done a quick search, but can't find this information. Can you help please?

I actually went looking a bit also & could not find it in that short search. I did find this article though from a few years ago & it is a complete reversal from thinking Barnes folks are for this lead ban. At least from what the article says.

Here is a snip from the article:

“When my father (Randy Brooks) went to all-copper, it had nothing to do with the environment,” Jessica Brooks-Stevens, daughter of X Bullet inventor Randy Brooks, said Monday at the 36th Annual SHOT Show in Las Vegas. “His reasons were so far from that it’s not even funny. It was more about performance. It only happened to work for the condor issue in California.“We don’t support the legislation. We think this type of legislation is bad for hunting, bad for the base. People shoot lead-core ammunition because it’s cheaper to shoot. I know some hunters in California who have put their guns up over this. That’s not good for our sport. Bans like this hurt the future of the sport for everyone.”

Brooks-Stevens said Barnes copper bullets will cost hunters 50 to 75 percent more to purchase.
“Pure copper is expensive,” she said.

Production of the non-lead bullet is at a high level, Brooks-Stevens said, to keep up with the huge demand for ammunition that is happening right now thanks to a huge increase in recreational shooters and an uptick in hunting numbers in some areas. More women than ever are taking up recreational shooting and hunting, recent surveys show.

“We’re increasing our production as quickly as we can to meet demand,” Brooks-Stevens said. “And we want to make sure California hunters are taken care of, too.”

Source: http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/outdoors/sdut-california-lead-ban-copper--2014jan14-story.html

There is a previous article about this ban to look at also if one has the inclintaion:
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/outdoors/sdut-california-hunting-lead-ban--2013aug30-story.html

The search terms I used were: >>> Sen McCarthy california hunting Barnes bullets lead <<<<

So, unless the one who posted up about this comes through on a link or something. The statement appears to be 180 deg. from what is being published. Maybe it is a case of the "telephone game", & things got mixed up? That has happened before to a lot of folks. Particularly on "hot" topics like this one...

Anyway, IMO, it is a screwed up law & those folks in Cal. have a lot of issues to deal with, & this one is not helping anyone that I can figure out...

Chev. William
03-28-2017, 12:49 PM
Please consider: I live in the San Fernando Valley area of the City of Los Angeles; within Los Angeles County of California. I am a Registered Republican Voter who is in a Voting Precinct that is a plurality Democratic Party registered Voters.
I am a Retired And disabled Veteran Who grew up in the same general Area I live in now.
In my youth, we neighborhood kids did go "hunting" with .22 RF rifles in the Hills surrounding us by Walking from home to the hills carrying our rifles and ammo. Never had ANY problems doing that.
But that was then and this is now.
the State bans Concealed Carry; the State Bans Open Carry; the State mandates Trigger Locks on Firearms being transported: The State Mandates firearms be in a Locked container in a Locked place OUTSIDE the Passenger Area of Vehicles transporting Them: the state mandates Ammo be in a separate place from the Firearm(s) both in transport and in storage; My local Commercial Outdoor Shooting Range bans use of any "Magnetic Ammunition" to boot.

There are now Laws, Rules, Regulations, and Ordinances enacted by all three Levels of government Banning Youth access, possession and use of Firearms so we are NOT allowed to teach Firearms Safety and Safe Handling nor Safe Hunting to the 'next generation in the Best Learning period of their Lives.

This is the "One Size Fits All" decision of Entrenched Political Powers here. The Existing Voting and Election Laws preserve their Power now so it is nearly Impossible to either propose changes or Elect an Opposition Candidate to the Entrenched Power Elite.

I Still Continue to Fight by my Votes, but sadly my vote is in the Minority side of the Ledger.
I hope others will come to their senses and also Vote to replace or Reverse this State's Sad conditions.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

Josh Smith
03-28-2017, 01:53 PM
I've been thinking about buying a lathe to turn monolithic copper bullets.

I live in a free state, but I expect these types of laws to spread throughout the nation, either faster or slower depending on who's elected, but I believe they will spread.

In fact, I expect to see a non-lead section on Cast Boolits one day.

I'm actually surprised to see that nobody is making mild steel bullets, copper-washed like the old Russian stuff.

Regards,

Josh

Chev. William
03-29-2017, 03:37 PM
Check the FEDERAL rules on Bullet Materials Allowed and Not allowed.

Chev. William

DanishM1Garand
03-29-2017, 04:22 PM
Check the FEDERAL rules on Bullet Materials Allowed and Not allowed.

Chev. William

these no lead laws run right into the federal armor piercing bans.

Sigh.

TexasGrunt
03-29-2017, 06:50 PM
these no lead laws run right into the federal armor piercing bans.

Sigh.

Don't think that's not a coincidence either.

cwheel
03-29-2017, 07:32 PM
I notice that Midway does stock some Hornady non lead. Not cheap, but they are available.
Chris

BAGTIC
04-05-2017, 12:17 AM
I wonder if the leadless 22 RF is frangible? It seems similar to the old 22 Short 'Spatterless' gallery loads which used iron powder and a plastic binder.

It seems that if one used the shortened case used in Aquila's 60 grain subsonic load and replaced the lead 60 grain with iron it should weigh about 40 grains

Fishman
04-05-2017, 08:12 AM
You know, when liberals don't agree with a law they march, throw rocks at police, burn cars, and loot. When conservatives don't agree, they complain a bit then see what they have to do to comply.

If a a couple thousand California gun owners went to their local hunting spot with some leaded ammo and "hunted" I wonder what would happen? I'm pretty sure no looting would occur. Logic would indicate that there wouldn't be enough game wardens to deal with it.

Conservatives need to be better at joining hands rather than beating their chest and saying "I alone will not comply!" I know this because I are one.

Just some one idle thoughts while perusing this thread.

flint45
04-06-2017, 02:07 PM
You know, when liberals don't agree with a law they march, throw rocks at police, burn cars, and loot. When conservatives don't agree, they complain a bit then see what they have to do to comply.

If a a couple thousand California gun owners went to their local hunting spot with some leaded ammo and "hunted" I wonder what would happen? I'm pretty sure no looting would occur. Logic would indicate that there wouldn't be enough game wardens to deal with it.

Conservatives need to be better at joining hands rather than beating their chest and saying "I alone will not comply!" I know this because I are one.

Just some one idle thoughts while perusing this thread. I agree completely you are right I think it is because we are so busy trying to just earn a living and taking care of our family we don't have time to organize but we would never act like the liberals do destroy someone else property or lay in the streets.

flint45
04-06-2017, 02:20 PM
I deleted my original reply as it was pretty political.

Here is my non political reply:
;)

I would not pay the price of $14.99 + shipping to cast bullets due to what I consider a "knee jerk" law.

I dealt with this **** back in the late 70's in MInnesota about lead & waterfowl.

I would be happy to cast alternatives to lead if there is an economically feasible source of materials that hold the properties of lead. ( If bismuth was a buck a pound, then there would not be an issue , right?). Until then. NO way.

I think someone is out to make more than just a change to ecology here.... I think there is a $$ motivation to change things so folks can make a buck.

Too bad the Californians who this affects did not see it coming & put some opposition into the defense of their standards & way of life. We did see it coming and we did all we could California is run by extreme left wing democrats and that got rammed through like you know what through a goose not enough of us to stop everything and no help from ammo companies its not a up hill battle its more like up the side of a cliff on a rope with one arm!

mold maker
04-06-2017, 03:10 PM
Just another liberal step toward what they think will be a utopia. Since Hillery didn't win they are having to take small steps to a total gun free society.
Don't look at it as a single step to a landing, it's just a single step in a long series of stairs taken one at a time.
They know that if they can make it expensive enough we will just give up.
Current technology hasn't spent the time and money to come up with the answer because they know that whatever they come up with, is only a pen stroke away from the next ban. This is in no way a new problem but is only the latest effort. There will always be a condor or a snail darter to hold up as the champion's cause.

Echo
04-06-2017, 03:36 PM
How about depleted uranium? Heavier than Pb - don't know about what temp it melts at - don't know about residual radiation - don't know a lot - but it WOULDN'T BE LEAD!

Harter66
04-06-2017, 04:07 PM
DU machines like mild steel and is as formable . The radiation is only a problem if you eat it , ingestion and injection will lead to all of the radiation issues . Breathing the dust is a problem also .
It weighs nearly twice what lead does so you could cut out a bullet shaped like a 260-120 at 258-100 and paper patched for your 264 WM and it would tip in about 190gr .....
Oh yeah it's pyrophoric too.

TexasGrunt
04-06-2017, 04:20 PM
We did see it coming and we did all we could California is run by extreme left wing democrats and that got rammed through like you know what through a goose not enough of us to stop everything and no help from ammo companies its not a up hill battle its more like up the side of a cliff on a rope with one arm!

Every ammo company and the NRA could have spent themselves into bankruptcy and it would not have made a difference. The Progressive Left is in control and NOTHING but the Supreme Court, or rebellion is going to stop them.

OuchHot!
04-06-2017, 04:42 PM
CA has a super majority in both house and senate of ultra-left. Voting makes no difference if you disagree with the extreme left. They can pass every law they desire with no impact from dissenting votes. The next governor will make gov. moonbeam look like Regan. Soros puts tens of millions into the elections here and the media has long been bought and paid for. Ranges are being closed throughout the state due to supposed lead pollution in spite of intensive mining of berms (lead is worth $$) and nonexistent proof of Pb in runoff.. What kills me is I do know gun owners that vote left wing. They are also on the dole. They want that "free stuff". The initial announcement of the Barnes connection to the white paper promoting lead free bullets was written up in the CRPA newsletter back when the few of us were fighting the inevitable. Hey, we had a fish and wildlife (not "fish and game" anymore) commissioner that wasn't totally left wing (the only one). The idiot had killed (LEGALLY) a mtn. lion in Colo. and had the image on facebook. That was the end of him! Imagine, a Fish and "wildlife" commissioner hunting legally. What an outrage! This is a large state with enormous ag and range revenue totally run by the city ghettos.

Chev. William
04-06-2017, 05:39 PM
I agree with Ouchhot!

Except that the "Utopian Society" the Democrats and other anti-Gun agitators are Striving for will ONLY be Gun Free for the Law Abiding Residents. The Criminal Gangs will be "Well Armed" as always and still support the 'Democrats' as the best way to have a 'Safe working environment' for their Nefarious and Criminal Endeavors.

Just my personal Observations and opinion,
Chev. William

mold maker
04-07-2017, 02:14 PM
EXACTLY !!!!!!!
The NRA and other groups have to pick their battles. No point in spending limited funds where the outcome is inevitable.

Chev. William
04-08-2017, 12:47 AM
As of Friday April 7th there IS a Chance Again, and it will be Much more assured by Monday Night.

Sadly, there will be 'tantrums' by the Opposition in BOTH Houses of the Federal Congress.

Chev. William

OuchHot!
04-08-2017, 02:54 PM
I have to say, I was terrified for my country at the prospect of Hilary/Soros staffing the supreme court. I truly considered that the end of Liberty.

Naporter
04-08-2017, 03:17 PM
Afar as zinc goes, I'm sure it would work but weight will be an issue. You'll be casting a bullet that is roughly 2/3 the weight it would normally be. If you can make that work, more power to you.

As as per the federal laws on armor piercing, that only applies to handgun cartridges and really only applies if you're selling them. Beware though that the a**hats at ATF have considered 5.45x39 a handgun caliber in order to ban 7N6 surplus ammo, and tried to do the same to 5.56x45.