Boolits Shaving: What Am i Doing Wrong?

[LakeviewBulldog]

I am loading for 45ACP. I'm using a cast boolit from an NOE 453-220-RNFP (tel:453-220-RNFP) mold, powde coated, and resized to .452 through a Lee resizing die. I am having boolit shaving issues. I started with the the powder through expander die and some times I would have more trouble than others. I ordered the Lee Universal Expander die thinking this would solve my problem. The trouble started at setup. I can barely get the expander to flare the case mouth with the die completely bottomed out on the ram. I am using it on a turret press on the first position with resized and primed cases. Going next to the powder through flaring die with an auto drum on to a seater then the Lee FCD. Somewhere in that process I am shaving my boolits down. If anyone has any ideas what I am doing wrong I would be very grateful for the help. I've posted some pictures of pulled boolits showing my issue. Thank you in advance for the help.

[marvelshooter]

Strange that only the upper section is shaved. Are you seating and crimping in the same step or separately? If you are doing both in the same step it looks like the crimped case mouth may be doing the shaving as the boolit is seated.

[Scharfschuetze]

Lakeview,

The Lee Universal Expander is improperly named. It is a flaring tool and nothing more. This is the root of your problem I think. What you really need is a Lyman M Die for the 45 ACP. It will expand your case properly for a .452 cast bullet as well as provide an expanded lip for your bullet to sit on before sizing. With this or the included expander die in most 3 die sets you'll solve your problem.

You might also have your seating crimping die adjusted too far down and you are closing your case and beginning a crimp much too early.

[Ateam]

Have you measured the post powder coat diameter? You may have an xl boolit there, try sending one through the sizer post coating.
Are you sure tour seat die is not also a taper crimp die? Sometimes with the tc dies if you have the die body screwed in too far the die will start to crimp before correct oal is reached (cramming a crimped boolit the rest of the way).
You dont have something silly lie 45GAP brass do you?

[LakeviewBulldog]

I am flaring and seating in different steps. On my turret I start at Lee Universal Expander, powder through flare, seating die, factory crimp die.

[LakeviewBulldog]

Have you measured the post powder coat diameter? You may have an xl boolit there, try sending one through the sizer post coating.
Are you sure tour seat die is not also a taper crimp die? Sometimes with the tc dies if you have the die body screwed in too far the die will start to crimp before correct oal is reached (cramming a crimped boolit the rest of the way).
You dont have something silly lie 45GAP brass do you?

I resize after powder coating. I am 100% positive I have all ACP brass. I am using the Lee 4 die set. So I am seating and crimping in separate operations. I've loaded probably 10k rounds through these dies with various amounts of shaving. I am just trying to up my game and get this problem eliminated completely.

[runfiverun]

you need more case flair.

[Silverboolit]

I have been using the PTX die from LEE for a long time and don't have the issue that you are showing. Is the PTX die adjusted down far enough to give a 'bell' on the case mouth? You should not need the flaring die at all as the PTX will do that when you charge the case. You are using a taper crimp as the last stage to fold in the bell from the charging die, right? It looks llike you may be using not enough flare, or bell.

[LakeviewBulldog]

I've got the PTX bottomed out for max flare. You would think that if the flare was the issue I would see shaving on the bottom of the boolit and not the top. I thought I was getting an expander for cast bullets with the Universal Expander die.

[MT Chambers]

Are you using both "expanders", the top one used as a spacer for the bottom one, for such short cases?

[LakeviewBulldog]

Picture of my flare. On the left is a flared bullet sitting in the case. Right is a resized but inflated case with a bullet sitting in it for reference. I calipered the flared case and got a measurement as close as I can tell of .467 at the widest lip.
190800

[Yodogsandman]

Try expanding or belling the case mouth.

[LakeviewBulldog]

I figured it out! The seating die body was adjusted too deep (even though I followed the instructions to the letter). As the bullet and casing were entering the seating die body they were going too far inside the die body and the flared case was hitting the sides of the die body as the bullet was engaging the seating plug. The effect was that the die body was forcing the case back towards the bullet and shaving off part of the top driving band. It was never a flaring issue at all. I had plenty of flare. I just backed out the seating die and screwed the seating plug down more to get my correct OAL and, voila, No more shaving. Thank you everyone for your help.

[daloper]

I am going to have to take a look at my set up. I am having the same problem with shaving while loading my .380.

[runfiverun]

good job.
you went from the flair to the next step and found the issue.
the flair is where you start.
because not enough will do just like you explained in the next step, if the dies are set properly.

[RickinTN]

I figured it out! The seating die body was adjusted too deep (even though I followed the instructions to the letter). As the bullet and casing were entering the seating die body they were going too far inside the die body and the flared case was hitting the sides of the die body as the bullet was engaging the seating plug. The effect was that the die body was forcing the case back towards the bullet and shaving off part of the top driving band. It was never a flaring issue at all. I had plenty of flare. I just backed out the seating die and screwed the seating plug down more to get my correct OAL and, voila, No more shaving. Thank you everyone for your help.

Exactly!
I'm glad you got it figured out.
Rick

[daloper]

Thanks for posting what you found. I did the same on my .380. Turned up the seating die one turn and ran a dummy load to reset the depth. After getting it set I ran a couple more dummy loads and all looked good. Pulled the boolits and they looked good. I am always learning here.

Once again Thanks.

[bedbugbilly]

You hit on just what I was about to post. Your seating die, if I remember correctly, is also a crimp die? With he body of the die adjusted too far down in your press, you were essentially seating and crimping at the same time - thus our shaving of the boolit. In the Lee sets - you get either a three or a four die set. The extra die ( the fourth ) is a FCD or factory crimp die (in pistol sets). You actually could get by without the FCD but a lot of times, that particular die will iron out minor bulges in the case if the boolit causes one.

Back your die body out on your "seating die" and then adjust your seating stem down to the correct depth of the OAL you are wanting.

As far a flaring a case - I purchased the Lee universal flaring die but to be honest, I don't like it. For loading cast, I often use a Lyman M die - the stem is the expander but it is also "stepped" for want of a better word, so that the seating stem can be adjusted down to put a flair that the boolet can be inserted in - think of it as kind of like a "shoe horn" bot boolits. Then when you seat, you won't get shaving. Your crimp die will iron out the flare.

I use the M die on all of my bottle neck rifle loadings and on some different pistol loadings when I have an issue with a particular boolit that I may be loading fat for a particular pistol that likes them that way.

Everyone has their own preferences but I learned quickly to seat and crimp in separate operations - which it sounds like you were attempting to do. To me, seating and crimping in the same operation is like trying to pull on a pair of jeans while you are standing on the leg bottoms - i.e. - trying to do two things at once that sort of work against each other.

Glad you got it figured out! Good luck!