Silver as Method of Exchange?

[birch]

I am by no means a doomsday prepper, but I have recently thought about investing in some cull grade Morgans and Peace Dollars as a potential method of exchange should something "happen".

I realize that an aspirin would be worth more that a coin at first, but I was just wondering about thoughts and opinions you all might have have regarding a long term event like a stock market crash etc.

[Hickory]

Silver would be a better means of monetary exchange then gold for emergencies.
A 150 or 200 coins would be a good insurance policy if things went sour.

[WebMonkey]

Just buy silver 'rounds' at spot + price. A couple each month would fit in even a tight budget.
;)

[birch]

That is what I have been thinking. I just stopped by a jewelry store and the owner is selling common date Morgans for 18 a piece. I bought a fine grade 1899 o for 20 bucks.

I was thinking a couple of those a month wouldn't hurt, but it seems that the precious metals market has dropped with the stock market almost equally.

I think I might even be able to swing the wife around if I called it an "insurance policy".

[birch]

Would you all go with Morgans or Eagles? Maybe something else?

[54bore]

I am curious what would make you think a silver coin might help you in a collapse, SHTF scenario? Serious question, i never think about things like this? I was born and raised hunting and fishing, and have successfully done so my entire life, i would rate my survival skills high (if i cared to survive) i am physically fit (logger/timber faller) i just cant imagine what a coin would do for me if i had to head for the hills and survive? We must be thinking totally different?

[birch]

No--we are on the same page. That is what I a wondering.

[BigMagShooter]

check out apmex, or silvertown, or JMboullion, they are three pretty good websites to check on the current silver prices and what's available.

they even have 'snap' boards. Silver bars you can snap into smaller quantities of silver if you are worried about trading them.

I would recommend silver rounds that EVERYONE is familiar with, such as Walking Liberties, that way the person you are trading with "KNOWS" you have authentic silver.

[RogerDat]

Before I worried about buying silver to stash in the gun safe I would think about putting some plain old cash in there. Power outages from storms or other disasters, network infrastructure failure (how cards get approved or banks branches update balances) can make your debit or charge card useless. So having a bit of cash on hand can mean the difference between buying more gas for the generator or sitting in the dark. Gas station may have gas & generator to pump it but no way to accept cards. Same for a motel or the local stores.

Silver is not an investment as much as it is a hedge against inflation, and only inflation. Coins are typical, and probably best form for the small investor who might want them as money in a currency collapse however you are paying around 10% premium over the silver value. That means your purchase has to appreciate by 10% before you break even. Figure maybe 3 years or more at normal inflation rates, less if inflation is high, or fear of inflation is high. Fear can drive price up as demand outstrips supply but price can also come down hard if too much gets dumped.

Not saying it is a bad idea to have some silver in dimes, quarters, and half dollar coins, maybe even dollar coins but only if you can hold it for a long time, and have enough other assets for liquid cash so you can choose when to sell it. Precious metals can cream you if you have to sell to raise cash at the wrong time.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Silver as a medium of exchange? That is exactly what we had until a president came along with the initials of LBJ. Our coins except for pennies and nickels were sterling silver. When he stopped the backing of our dollars with silver and stopped minting silver coins, inflation kicked into high gear. The last year we minted silver coins was 1964.

[birch]

It does seem that precious metals have always held some intrinsic value. But I do know that I wouldn't dream of selling a chicken for a coin if the dollar were not worth much...maybe some would.

[mold maker]

Known/recognized mints offer 1oz silver bars/coins for as little as .49/oz premium. When your paper money is useless and your credit card is worth squat, just how are city folks supposed to use their hunter skills? Having silver will always give you an edge.
Old silver coinage isn't pure silver and it's not even all the same % silver. It will only trade at face value, because there will be no collector market.
I'd rather have a brick of 22 LR as a trade investment, although I do have several lbs of 999 silver that gets bought/sold as the market dictates.

[Thumbcocker]

Canning jars, flats, primers, seeds, lead.

[454 shooter]

I have thought about silver to trade or as an investment, hey, even some shiny metal around just to look at. I heard Dave Ramsey comment that silver and gold are lousy investments and if the banks and economy were to collapse then food, water , guns and ammunition would be worth far more than silver.

[birch]

In that case--i am truly a rich man!

On the shiney part--i only have a few Morgan's, but I could see myself get carried away if I let myself do some more research on them. They are kind of like the gun addiction. A gun doesnt mean that much to me unless it has some history.

All I need is another addiction

[MUSTANG]

Investors in the Stock Market are always warned to be diversified. It is wise of one is preparing to survive tumultuous times to also be diversified. As an example; think of the Vietnamese who left as we (The US) evacuated Southern Vietnam as it collapsed. Those who planned well probably started off with food and transportation to get to designated US Evac points. They abandoned the transportation once they were in the area, and ate the food as they hid/waited to get out of dodge. Probably had firearms and ammo with them to protect themselves and families, as they got onto US transports or made it to a "Boat People Boat"; they probably had the remainder of the Food, Ammo, and firearms confiscated/seized. Most wound up with a bag or bags of clothes and possessions, which they usually got to keep and were visually inspected and drug dog sniffed multiple times from their first being off the Vietnam Coast until they were taken the the USMC Base at Camp Pendleton. Those who had family in the States, US Bank accounts, or other means of support were allowed to leave Camp Pendleton after initial processing.

Here is where the interesting part of the story comes into play. The Marine Corps had to bring in Armored Truck, after Armored Truck, after Armored Truck to deal with the amounts of Gold Leaf, Silver, and Diamonds and other Valuable stones that many of these "Poor" refugees had hidden away in their luggage and other places smugglers are prone to use. More than one South Vietnamese Refugee drove off Camp Pendleton in a brand new Mercedes the local car dealers were allowed to bring aboard to sell to the "Poor Refugees".

The moral to my story is: Those who prepare are going to make out better than those looking for a free assistance program if dire consequences arise in a society.

[GhostHawk]

Year and a half ago I was sitting on a pretty nice windfall. Call it early inheritance.

Now some did get invested on us, like for a really good bed. Some on firearms, ammo, componants. Some on top camping gear, water filters, hammocks with rain fly's and bug screens.

But I also put a big chunk into silver. I bought all mine from Provident, as they had the best prices combined with low shipping costs. Lower premium over spot across the board.

I am sitting now with a nice hoard of Silver, some Walking Liberty silver dollars. A lot more Provident prospectors, buffalo, Molon Aabe, whatever was at a good price that caught my fancy.

I ran all mine through paypal, when I was buying I would buy one or two 470-495 dollar orders per day.

I bought at 14.25 to 14.75. Yes I could have sold when it hit twenty, but I think it will go much higher yet.

That paper stuff they call money is not really money. It is not based on anything other than public opinion. And it does not hold its value as money does. The cost of near everything has gone up, often doubled or quadrupled in the last 20 years. Yet we see almost no increase in wages.

20 years ago I bought a new AO Smith 50 gallon Nat Gas water heater for just over 200$. This month the same thing exactly cost me 550$. That is real inflation. Not the paper trail that our government with its manipulated concocted figures show inflation at. They pick and choose what they put in the basket and they are running out of things to choose.

For me it falls back to solid conservative values. Don't ever put all your eggs in one basket. Spread things around.

Get out of debt, FIRST!

If you don't have land, we'll you'll need some now won't you?

Then when all other needs are met, yeah, silver is IMO a good choice. Just not the first choice.

I have a little gold too, but when an ounce of gold sells for 1200$ per it is a bit hard to budget.
And how do you knock 50$ off for groceries without someone getting cheated?

Silver is easier.

Don't buy paper, if it is not where you can put your hand on it. Where you can protect it. Move it, it is not yours. Not really.

Nice thing about silver is it takes a hella hot fire to melt it. And even then it is not destroyed, just changed shape. Most of mine is hidden in an old Crock. Flood ain't going to bother it, freezing don't faze it.

The main thing is to get out of debt, get out from under first. What good does your silver do if you have to sell it all to keep your house?

How do you keep anything if they can kick you out of your house?

Last, of all the daily needs food is in many respects the easiest.
The hardest is water.

3 minutes without air, 3 hours in some climates without shelter, 3 days without water, 3 weeks without food. And yet people all over have months worth of food stored and would not drink the perfectly good clean water in a toilet tank in a SHTF scenario.

Having ways to purify water, multiple ways, multiple sources. Thats a good investment IMO.

[rancher1913]

54bore, not to belittle hunting and woodsman's skills but even the best mountain men needed to head to town every once in a while for supplies like salt, coffee, undergarments, etc. they could trade beaver skins but nowadays silver works better.

we keep pm's just to pay our property taxes with if it gets bad, the government has to have theirs and they will take pm's.

around here we are like you in that we can do for ourselves but if we get kicked off the land we are screwed.

[Danderdude]

If you're dead set on silver, https://comparesilverprices.com/

What you cannot forget is precious metals are simply a store of wealth. They are not an investment, will not make you rich, and when you're done fondling them and the excitement wears off, they just sit there lookin' purty. It also has the primary drawback of barter: you have to find someone who values that silver more than they value the cash or item in trade. Most of the people talking about precious metals have a vested interest in getting cash from you, directly or indirectly. Every sucker they can rope into buying junk coins or "investing" in PM's increases the demand slightly and they are positioned to profit.

I no longer own any PMs besides a roll of silver solder and a single tooth filling. I got very lucky with my silver, but only a fool would use my anecdotal story to justify or rationalize purchasing any.. I found a used aluminum boat for sale on craigslist, went out to see it, chatted up the owner, found out he was REALLY into silver and he had a slightly autistic hobby of going through $100 boxes of nickels looking for the 35% silver 1942-1945 war nickels because pretty much every silver dime and quarter has been found. I was able to trade silver for the boat and got a hell of a deal on it, but I'm also a pretty good negotiator. I do not recommend you buy silver in hopes of finding an autistic silver fiend willing to part with the exact thing you want in close proximity to you.

Further, if you look at modern wartime narratives from eastern Europe or the middle east, gold are silver don't become magical talismans of trade value in a catastrophe either. If you're looking to get rich quick when SHTF, go buy insulin powder from sigma aldrich. http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/sigma/91077c?lang=en&region=US
If you're dipping your toes into prepping, silver should be last on the list. Antibiotics should be first and can be found on ebay or from "aquarium suppliers". Build a stock of amoxicillin, cephalexin, azithromycin and doxycycline, then torrent or buy a medical diagnostic manual. Toss your old expired first aid kit and build a proper trauma kit. I built some with the $5 plastic ammo cans from Walmart or Horrible Freight with a battle bandage, SAM splint, SAM finger splints, gauze, triangular bandages, eye wash, forceps, tweezers, sealed sterile scalpel, steristrips, benzoin tincture swabs so the steristrips and bandaids actually stick, gloves, hand sanitizer, self-adherent bandages, trauma pads, really good bandaids, one time use little packets of iodine pads, alcohol pads, ammonia inhalants, burn cream, triple antibiotic, common pills, and I'm sure I'm forgetting some things. You can fit a lot in those boxes with smart planning. I made kits for myself and 3 brothers and through the magic of buying in bulk have plenty of everything left in the home cabinet.

After medical emergency preparedness, water and then food are next on the list. Many of the deaths in Ukraine a few years ago were dysentery related. In Bosnia 1992 you could buy a woman for the night or buy your way into crossing a street without getting a bullet to the back of the head for half a can of spam, 4 fingers of vodka or a bic lighter. Money and silver were worthless in both situations.

[birch]

Noted

[mcdaniel.mac]

Put me in the "pass" category. I don't need it, the miracle cures people claim from it are bunk, and if I'm hunting for dinner and burning a fire for warmth, I don't need coins I can't eat.

Land is a good call. My graduation present to myself will be a small hunting cabin outside the city, just big enough to hang out for a year or two if things go terribly wrong. I don't have kids, I never will, so it should be fairly easy to pay off.

To those who asked, yes, you do get to keep your stuff if the bank takes your house.

IMO, for the cost of an ounce of silver every month, a gym membership would be a far better investment. Poor health will kill you as dead as any bullet, just slower and more expensive.

[MaryB]

Only buy silver dollars from reputable sources, there are a LOT of Chinese fakes out there. Silver dimes and quarters make more sense, they will be the $1 and $5 bills of trade when it starts back up after SHTF. First year post collapse will be barter for items, but pretty soon people will specialize, Joe will raise chickens, Bob has beef, you have beer to trade. You need chickens but Joe doesn't drink, Bob does drink but you raise your own beef. Joe will sell you a chicken for 90% silver quarter($5 bill) then he turns around and uses that to buy a beef roast from Bob, Bob wants some beer and your quarter comes back to you when he buys a growler of beer... barter doesn't always work!

And in Bosnia there WAS trade in silver and gold after things started to settle down and an economy started back up.

[Iowa Fox]

Canning jars, flats, primers, seeds, lead.

Yep!

Plus Salt, pepper, flour, tools

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I like to have some Silver, you bet!
I prefer Walker half dollars and mercury dimes.
about a year ago, silver was at the bottom, I bought quite a bit in May.
It had climbed some last fall, but has leveled off after the election.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Known/recognized mints offer 1oz silver bars/coins for as little as .49/oz premium. When your paper money is useless and your credit card is worth squat, just how are city folks supposed to use their hunter skills? Having silver will always give you an edge.
Old silver coinage isn't pure silver and it's not even all the same % silver. It will only trade at face value, because there will be no collector market.
I'd rather have a brick of 22 LR as a trade investment, although I do have several lbs of 999 silver that gets bought/sold as the market dictates. To repeat myself. Until 1964 our coinage, other than nickels and pennies were sterling or 90% silver. They will always be 90% silver. When you buy bars of metal, it could be sliver or maybe not. They only way to tell is to have it tested. American silver coins are the only coins I would buy. If all civil order breaks down there really isn't much you can do but crawl in a hole and pray. Nobody is going to sell you anything to eat no matter what you have to trade. I got a small glimpse of that type of situation during the Cuban misslle crisis. I went to a large super market to buy one item and the shelves were empty. One lady had a shopping cart full of cigarettes and dog food. Had this condition continued, nothing I owned would have bought me any food. Fortunately the crisis was short lived.

[A pause for the COZ]

I buy $100 worth 4 times a year. It is a movable resource that has no government strings attached.
I saw what happened when my mother became a ward of the county because of a illness that landed her in a nursing home for the last 6 months of her life. She became a word of the county of course after every asset she had was cataloged and liquidated for her care. Medicare only cover a very short time after that your on your own. Then the level of your care decreases as your assets decrease until your placed in a county home for storage until you die.

If some thing happens to me and I am not able to effect the ( never going to happen to me plan).
My Son can grab the bit of silver and some guns and get them to his house 1st.

[A pause for the COZ]

To repeat myself. Until 1964 our coinage, other than nickels and pennies were sterling or 90% silver. They will always be 90% silver. When you buy bars of metal, it could be sliver or maybe not. They only way to tell is to have it tested. American silver coins are the only coins I would buy. If all civil order breaks down there really isn't much you can do but crawl in a hole and pray. Nobody is going to sell you anything to eat no matter what you have to trade. I got a small glimpse of that type of situation during the Cuban misslle crisis. I went to a large super market to buy one item and the shelves were empty. One lady had a shopping cart full of cigarettes and dog food. Had this condition continued, nothing I owned would have bought me any food. Fortunately the crisis was short lived.

Many of us here already have access to the only real coin of the realm after a SHTF event. The Silver is for latter after some semblance or normalcy returns.
The coin of the realm until that time will be bullets and guns. That will insure you can get a meal or protect a meal.

[SP5315]

I'm just gonna throw this out there. If you think you are going to want silver for a SHTF situation, you should consider not only silver dollars or one ounce rounds. Include some halves, quarters and even dimes, all pre 1964 of course. Don't limit yourself to only one denomination for trade. Nobody wants to pay more for something than they have too.

[Alabama358]

Depends...

If your talking about End of Times Revelations stuff, then no you don't need any silver.

If your talking about US Dollar collapse, Great Depression 2.0, Civil unrest, Trade wars, EMP or whatever other SHTF event happens then by all means get a stash of real money (Silver)
But do not forsake the important necessities first. Water, Food, Seeds, Guns, lead, powder, primers etc.

World events like this sometimes kick off slow sometimes fast...Have a long grueling period of fighting and recovery and then the rebuilding starts. That's when you go to the ground and dig up your real money and start the rebuilding process for yourself and your kin folk. See because silver and gold are a store of wealth. for over 2000 years it has held its value.
In 1963 a silver quarter would have bought you a gallon of gas and that same quarter will still buy a gallon of gas today.

And as a last resort you could melt them down and cast them into 200 gr boolits and kill vampires.

[54bore]

Guess I'm of a different mind set, when/if this world gets to that point i dont wanna be here anymore, i will stand strong at the house i bought and paid for.
I have/had a friend that believes in doomsday etc. etc. etc. ex military, bail bonds guy. He called me one day to discuss 'Bug out Bag' necessities?? I didnt have the slightest clue what a 'Bug out Bag' was? He came to my house and visited, he rattled and rattled about how we could work together as a team, my outdoor survival skills, hunting, fshing, living off the land, and long range rifle. After he finished his spiel i smiled and told him the above, i wont be here long if it gets that bad, and i wont leave my home. That was the last time i spoke with him, that was well over a year ago, he has never called me since.

[54bore]

And as a last resort you could melt them down and cast them into 200 gr boolits and kill vampires.

Whatever you do, Don't forget Zombies!! Now days you go to buy REAL targets, you have to dig through Zombie targets to find a REAL target to shoot your rifle. UNREAL

[smokeywolf]

Most of the answers above are good and relevant to being prepared for economic collapse, EMP, SHTF, TEOTWAWKI.

I kind of favor MUSTANG and Danderdude's posts. Silver coins will likely be the most widely accepted form of currency after a couple to several years.

Although good to have some extra antibiotics, if you don't put in several hundred hours of study, they may be a greater danger than they are a help. Just one example: Doxycycline is believed to lower blood platelet counts. If you treat someone with Doxy who typically runs a low platelet count you could cause bleeding or increased bleeding if they already have an injury.
You don't want to be responsible for killing someone because you don't know their medical history and give them Doxy when you should have given them Cephalexin. Also, don't forget about drug allergies.
Good to have the antibiotics, but only if you've done a lot of homework. Better yet, find a doctor or pharmacist who needs something you have and trade for some medical advice.

There are a few things that a lot of people need that haven't been mentioned.
Feminine hygiene supplies. Cloth pads can still be bought. Cloth diapers also. Cloth diapers will be like gold. To someone with one or two babies, a couple of dozen diapers could be worth as much as a pick or shovel.
If you're trying to go unnoticed while hunting, buy and practice with traps, air guns, bow and arrows and slingshots.
Cheap booze will not only be good barter material, but is also good for antiseptic.
Chlorine bleach will have value, but not the liquid; potency diminishes too quickly. Get powdered swimming pool chlorine.

As far as storing food goes. Study the Mormons. Not many know as much about food storage a Mormons.

Oil lamps and oil to keep them burning.

Everything that you need, many others need the same things, so all become a form of currency.

[54bore]

Most of the answers above are good and relevant to being prepared for economic collapse, EMP, SHTF, TEOTWAWKI.

I kind of favor MUSTANG and Danderdude's posts. Silver coins will likely be the most widely accepted form of currency after a couple to several years.

Although good to have some extra antibiotics, if you don't put in several hundred hours of study, they may be a greater danger than they are a help. Just one example: Doxycycline is believed to lower blood platelet counts. If you treat someone with Doxy who typically runs a low platelet count you could cause bleeding or increased bleeding if they already have an injury.
You don't want to be responsible for killing someone because you don't know their medical history and give them Doxy when you should have given them Cephalexin. Also, don't forget about drug allergies.
Good to have the antibiotics, but only if you've done a lot of homework. Better yet, find a doctor or pharmacist who needs something you have and trade for some medical advice.

There are a few things that a lot of people need that haven't been mentioned.
Feminine hygiene supplies. Cloth pads can still be bought. Cloth diapers also. Cloth diapers will be like gold. To someone with one or two babies, a couple of dozen diapers could be worth as much as a pick or shovel.
If you're trying to go unnoticed while hunting, buy and practice with traps, air guns, bow and arrows and slingshots.
Cheap booze will not only be good barter material, but is also good for antiseptic.
Chlorine bleach will have value, but not the liquid; potency diminishes too quickly. Get powdered swimming pool chlorine.

As far as storing food goes. Study the Mormons. Not many know as much about food storage a Mormons.

Oil lamps and oil to keep them burning.

Everything that you need, many others need the same things, so all become a form of currency.

I understand in an economic collapse situation where you could stay at home, but How would a person carry these things if they had to do the 'Bug Out' thing? With all the people in this world i can only imagine trying to hide something to go back for it later, This world would be a SCARY place in such a situation

[dragon813gt]

Personally I would not accept silver in any form except a government minted coin. Reason being is they are a known weight. Don't kid yourself. Silver bars and rounds are shaved all the time. Throw in a financial crisis and its definitely going to happen. You can't do this w/ a coin as signs would be obvious.

I'd buy junk silver for this purpose. Small denomination coins that have a known silver content. But all this talk is just that. Outside of a meteor strike or Yellowstone erupting nothing is going to interrupt our economy that much. Call me an optimist in this regard but I don't see it happening.

I personally buy numismatic coins. The premium paid up front is worth it IMO. I can take them into any coin shop and there will be little to no bartering. A PF-70 Silver Eagle is just that. At this point if I go back at least five years every Silver Eagle I've bought is worth more money than what I paid for it. I expect the same thing to happen in five years for coins bought this year. I don't look at this as an investment. It's just a small hobby. And unlike most hobbies I'm not losing money on it.

[smokeywolf]

I understand in an economic collapse situation where you could stay at home, but How would a person carry these things if they had to do the 'Bug Out' thing? With all the people in this world i can only imagine trying to hide something to go back for it later, This world would be a SCARY place in such a situation

Common sense should make it obvious you couldn't take all this stuff with you if you're "bugging out". Some people will "bug out" and some will "bug in".

If you're "bugging out", again, common sense would dictate that you edit what you pack to allow for portability and moving fast if need be.

[54bore]

Common sense should make it obvious you couldn't take all this stuff with you if you're "bugging out". Some people will "bug out" and some will "bug in".

If you're "bugging out", again, common sense would dictate that you edit what you pack to allow for portability and moving fast if need be.

Agree, would obviously depend on the Scenario

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

back in the 1990s, I had a circle of friends who were always talking about 'end times'...and I may have been the worst (or best?) one of them. When Y2K grew close, I prepped...and I prepped. I have a hundred stories about how I prepped. I won't go into all that today, but I learned some things. The biggest one, is don't let it (the prepping) get out of control or you'll forget about living today's life.

Back to the OP: "Silver as a method of exchange"
A friend of mine, who is a part time scrapper/recycler. He prefers to swap for items, as opposed to receive cash. Last time I got some Lead (450lbs), we swapped for a majority of the deal(not silver, but some other items)...but, I think I had to give him about $80 cash "ta boot". Anyway, he mentioned he has one client that swaps with Silver coins and he liked getting those...and asked if I had any to swap? and to bring them next time. So, that's one of the reasons, I"ll buy silver when it presents itself as a good deal.

[square butte]

Bugging out is a young mans game. Old guys stay home and make the stand where they and loved ones stand. Have a little bit of everything ( Common Sense - most old guys have at least a little bit ) - And a lot of Trust in God to provide.

[54bore]

Bugging out is a young mans game. Old guys stay home and make the stand where they and loved ones stand. Have a little bit of everything ( Common Sense - most old guys have at least a little bit ) - And a lot of Trust in God to provide.

Exactly my feelings!!!

[Handloader109]

Well, I own about a half dozen silver dollars..... no bullion, no gold except for a couple of rings that might have a bit in them..
I agree with RogerDat, (one of the few times) Trading silver, or gold for lunch, won't happen. Guys, if things get that bad in the US, it is REALLY bad, and you'd be better off with a few more pounds food. There won't be any trading going on. Not for a long time. For short term issues, YES, you'd be much better off having a thousand or two dollars in a variety of relatively small bills around. Localized issues with power outages are more of an issue and having $ to spend rather than that credit card that won't work might be better to store.
And when the SHTF really, hits,
The coin of the realm will be

Toilet Paper!
Not silver or gold.

[AK Caster]

I am not much of a prepper. But if I were going to put stuff away for when the SHTF it would be Glock 9mm's and/or boxes of factory 9mm ammo.

[labradigger1]

I'm not a prepped but I do occasionally trade some of my items for silver US coins. I have even done it here in the S&S section.

I just like silver coins.

[exile]

"The Lord is good, A stronghold in the day of trouble, And He knows those who take refuge in Him." Nahum 1:7 (N.A.S.B.)

John 6:40

exile

[funnyjim014]

In the SHTF collapse ammo in the common calibers, firearms, alcohol, tobacco, food water- in that order will be the new currency. Money, gold, silver all will be worthless

[Dan Cash]

I am curious what would make you think a silver coin might help you in a collapse, SHTF scenario? Serious question, i never think about things like this? I was born and raised hunting and fishing, and have successfully done so my entire life, i would rate my survival skills high (if i cared to survive) i am physically fit (logger/timber faller) i just cant imagine what a coin would do for me if i had to head for the hills and survive? We must be thinking totally different?

Those of you who think that heading for the hills to survive is a solution, you need to think again. There is not enough game to sustain you and there are a lot of folks there ahead of you right now who may not take kindly to your coming. That silver or other items of exchange could help negotiate the transfer of one of those beeves roaming the range. Other acquisition methods of said beef could prove terminally unsatisfactory.

[NoAngel]

Precious metal and stones or anything of the like are ONLY good if the system will recover.
A total collapse will render all you gold and silver worthless. You can't eat it, shoot it or dress a wound with it so itll be junk.

If our way of life could recover, your investment would pay off well but if it doesn't you'd be better off stocking high quality tools and the means to produce food, alcohol and medical necessities.
In a total collapse you could use $100k worth of gold bars tied to a rope to anchor your boat while you're crappie fishing cause that's about it'll be worth.

[quilbilly]

It has been my observation over the last six decades that an ounce of silver will generally buy about half a tank of gas (in a small car of course) whether it was when gas was 25 cents or $2.90 per gallon. It is far more liquid an asset than gold. Between saving one ounce silver bars or rounds and one pound ingots of boolit alloy lead, you should be good to go when the SHTF.

[PerpetualStudent]

I know people planning to use silver as "it" starts before "it" get's really bad. Mainly to buy gas when we've lost faith in electric 1's and 0's as well as cash.

I suppose that if I was a gas merchant and I'm watching things crumbling, but I think it will be rebuilt, I'd rather have silver than cash. And I'd rather have something than nothing for the gas that I know I can't store.

The thing to me is, I can't imagine swapping any of my stuff for silver in that situation. If I'm watching things crumble I want things to help me and mine now, I'm not worrying about my retirement savings once we've rebuilt. It all boils down to which version of SHTF you subscribe to I guess. For me, I'd rather tools and lead than silver.

[birch]

Interesting stuff.

[Ithaca Gunner]

Anybody worried, or even mildly concerned about collapse should read, "Alas Babylon" by Pat Frank, 1959. It's a novel of how a small community in Florida survives the aftermath of WWIII. Silver may be a hedge against inflation, but a stock of supplies, ammo, fish hooks, hand tools, non-power machines, good old fashion paper books on everything from medicine to farming, and self reliance is what would get you through...with some tiny community bonding.

[koehn,jim]

I have gold silver and silver and both are good insurance, but lead is better if it hits the fan. Start looking at your change, there re still high silver content coins in circulation. When you find one sock it away, and it only cost you face value. First though buy supplies that if stored properly don't go bad. Primers and powder will always be in demand, and wont get cheaper.

[NoAngel]

I have gold silver and silver and both are good insurance, but lead is better if it hits the fan. Start looking at your change, there re still high silver content coins in circulation. When you find one sock it away, and it only cost you face value. First though buy supplies that if stored properly don't go bad. Primers and powder will always be in demand, and wont get cheaper.


This brings up another good point. Stockpiling powder and primers for when things get REALLY bad is nonsensical. Makes perfect sense now for those of us worried about panic buying and shortages but for WWIII type scenarios, it makes NO sense. If things really collapse around here, do you really think you'll have time to sit down and start pulling a handle?
For that line of thinking, you're better off storing primers individually along side precisely metered portions of powder, sealed in little brass tubes of varying geometry depending upon your tastes and needs.

[hardcase54]

"Alas Babylon" is my favorite book. I can't count the times I've read it.

[StolzerandSons]

Gold, Silver, Quality Land and a few other solid real world items are good items to add to your portfolio because they are basically insurance against currency instability(I'll give a good example in a moment) BUT they aren't what I would put on the top of my list of things I'd want in the SHTF or TEOTWAWKI scenarios. I'm not really big on the "prepper" thing but I am a realist when it comes to being prepared. For instance I live in Tornado Alley so for at least a portion of every year we have to be prepared to deal with the aftermath of a tornando relocating our house and my shop...that means we "prep" for a few scenarios that are relevant to the most likely outcome if a tornado comes through our area. These scenarios will be different for everyone based on where they live and what types of disasters can happen to them. If you prepare for the real then you are usually covered for the imagined as well.

I'm just going to use Gold in my example because it's simple to verify my information and it is something that I actually keep in my portfolio, here goes...in 1917 you could buy a new Model T Ford for about $450.00(depending on location and a few other factors). In 1917 Gold was $20.67/ounce. So $450 divided by $20.67 is 21.77 ounces of Gold. In 2017, a Ford F-150(basically the modern model T) has an MSRP of $26,730.00 and Gold is currently $1204.70. That works out to 22.18 ounces of Gold. So basically 22 ounces of gold in 1917 would buy you a new Ford truck and 100 years later 22 ounces of Gold will still buy you a new Ford truck...Insurance not an investment.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

If there is a nation wide crisis or maybe even state wide, you will be lucky to get out of your driveway. As far going to the woods to live, forget that also. Animals who live there often starve to death for a number of reasons such as drought or over population. California has mostly pine forest and nothing lives there anyway. Pine trees kill all vegetation that tries to grow there, even grass. Many of us need medicine everyday. Where would you get that in the woods? Before moving into this senior community my wife and I lived on 2-1/2 acres. A Mormon moved in next door and brought four large storage vans with him. They were filled with all manner of packaged food and a large population of large black rats which promptly spread all over the neighborhood. Our dog often killed them and deposited them at our back door. A gift I guess. Most of his canned food had spoiled, some of it had even turned black in the jars. He moved away after a few years and left most of the old food behind. My brother once said to me, "if a nuclear war comes, I hope the first missile hits in my back yard". Get it over with and avoid the trouble that follows.

[762 shooter]

I would think more than twice about trading ammo for anything.

I will give it to those I trust and I will defend it to the death from ones that I don't.

Anyway if you don't have water it's a moot point.

762

[Jeff Michel]

As the Pat Frank novel has been point out a couple times, this may dovetail.... Most of the posts are under the assumption that there will be something available to purchase. In the case of a complete infrastructure failure, any available consumer goods will be snapped up immediately. Anyone that has been through panic buying due to upcoming bad weather knows how scarce food gets just before a snow storm. After the stuff has been bought, where the replacement stuff coming from? Who will delivery food to a store if money is without value? I think the the best methodology for disaster preparedness is to stock up on shelf stable foods and bottled water and rotate both into your regular diet to keep your stock pile relatively fresh. Hunting for your groceries may work for a while but remember you will be competing with a bunch of other people with the same notion. Money and by extension, precious metals are nothing more than a medium of exchange. As pointed out earlier, so is a can of spam. If I haven't eaten anything in a week and had to choose between a silver ounce bar and a pack of Ramen noodles, the decision would not take up much of my day. You can always trade extra food for something else you need to survive.

[RogerDat]

Toilet paper is the new currency. Made me laugh. But it is true. To my mind best "investment" for tough times is stuff you will actually use or that has minimal cost today but high value in a disrupted economy.

Lead, primers, powder, canned goods, dried beans (Mmm wife's bean soup!), and yes toilet paper and how-to books. I like reading about stuff, and I use toilet paper, and dog food and first aid kit, or things that you can find a use for anytime.

I know we all go to the internet today but no internet means you don't have that information on first-aid, gardening, or how to make booze in a pressure cooker pot still. Yes pressure cooker from a garage sale or thrift store might be a cheap (and fun) purchase. Since they already have a vent in the top you can thread in the condenser coil so they make a good still with little work.

Thing to remember is a tornado or ice storm or hurricane or flood are real world events that do happen and being prepared for those known events leaves you with more options, and time to think and consider those options in a more unsettled situation than not being prepared. If I lived in forest fire area I would have a bug out bag, and having a few essentials in the car for winter travel leaves you in better shape if for some reason you had to make your way home on foot or weather prevented you from returning home.

I would toss in pandemic, how long could you just stay home? Waiting for a flue or other virus with a high mortality rate to burn it self out takes time. When the Spanish flu came through around 1918 if you could have bunkered down for 60 or 90 days at home you might have been better off. But that much food is a might full pantry and a lot of money to invest. Still food will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no food. Even silver money. Don't forget in every siege the price for goods goes through the roof, so I agree with those that say in a situation of civil breakdown goods are more valuable than precious metal, except maybe as bribes. But then booze works as a bribe too and I can drink that. Just not as portable so if one was trying to travel and bribe...

I have three rolls of Charmin ultra soft and all you have to do is look the other way as I go through the gate and down the road. How about I throw in a half bottle of vodka? Ok bye, ya'll take care now.

[PerpetualStudent]

It's been a while since I read 2 kings, but this thread did remind me of one siege where they were starving, eventually cannibalism shows up, but they mention that a donkey's head went for much silver
https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/2%20Kings%206%3A25

[country gent]

I talked to several european immigrants in shops Ive worked. They went thru WW2 and all said the same thing about what was best. Money, precious metals were very low on the lists as were art and other collectables. Forearms and ammo wernt as low but tops on all of their lists were shelter and food stuffs. All said the same thing Food was better for trade and bartering than anything else whether vegtables, meat or live animals. Firearms ammo was just to protect. But Food could be eaten or used for trade either or. Canned goods or dehydrated foods may just be the ticket.

[historicfirearms]

I live in a northern climate and know damn well that 99 percent of the people here would not make it through the first winter. Most heat with propane or natural gas. A few heat with wood but most of them have outdoor boilers that require electricity. It would be extremely hard to live off the land here considering all the people around and limited game and fish. Food, livestock, firewood and stoves will be in high demand here. Saws and axes would come in handy too. I would not trade any of that stuff for silver or gold.

[Ithaca Gunner]

"Alas Babylon" is my favorite book. I can't count the times I've read it.

Must be my favorite too, I've read it about once a year since 1967.

Dad was 12 with several brothers and brothers in law in France when the Spanish flu killed millions world wide. When the war ended on 11-11-18 dad wanted to join in the celebrating in the streets, grandma would have none of it, she locked him in the house where he would be safe, if just for a time. The uncles that survived the war told of sick men going to hospitals and most often dying, other sick men who went off alone to die more often survived. I guess there's a lesson in that for us somewhere. Cities and other great gatherings of people, (such as the trenches of WWI) are breeding grounds for dieses and pandemics, people can be the filthiest of animals and best avoided when possible.

[Thumbcocker]

There is a reason there are a lot more farmer than hunter gatherers. Humans don't stick with something long once they find something that works better. The whole head for the hills and live off the country thing sounds great. Lots of other people with the same idea mean that the game would be shot out or run off in short order. Many places take a lot of area to support a few game animals. Home grown and canned beans aren't romantic but they are a lot easier to catch and more reliable.

[Mohawk Daddy]

Must be my favorite too, I've read it about once a year since 1967.

Dad was 12 with several brothers and brothers in law in France when the Spanish flu killed millions world wide. When the war ended on 11-11-18 dad wanted to join in the celebrating in the streets, grandma would have none of it, she locked him in the house where he would be safe, if just for a time. The uncles that survived the war told of sick men going to hospitals and most often dying, other sick men who went off alone to die more often survived. I guess there's a lesson in that for us somewhere. Cities and other great gatherings of people, (such as the trenches of WWI) are breeding grounds for dieses and pandemics, people can be the filthiest of animals and best avoided when possible.

My father survived the "Spanish flu" after WWI as a boy. He told me that the prevailing wisdom at the time was not to let flu victims eat; somehow it was believed that this would increase the possibility of survival. He told me that he woke up one day in bed, extremely weak and all the adults were outside doing something. He got up and staggered to the kitchen where he found a pot of cooked beans still warm. He got a bowl and scoop spoon and ate all he could hold. Everyone cried out when he was caught eating beans, but he began to recover right away and lived a long full life thereafter. He always believed that bowl of beans saved his life. The moral to this story? Make sure you have plenty of beans!

[GhostHawk]

Well I have to admit this thread at least made some fairly interesting reading.

Short term, worth more than the Silver IMO is the 3 full cases of alcohol on my porch.
2/3rds of it is Evan Williams Bourbon. Tastes like Jack or Jim, but smoother. If the lights did go off, those who really need a break from the stress will trade most anything for a good stiff drink.

Long term nothing equals what is in your head. It can not be taken away from you against your will. You control it and if it works at all, or how well it works. So it can not really be used against you.

Knowing how to make soap could be worth more than knowing where a thousand ounces of Silver is stashed.

Not many of the current generation appear to know how to do much of anything that does not involve a phone.

If it really goes in the pot bad, it is true, chances are I won't ever have time to make up vast amounts of loaded ammo more than what I have. And If I die, the guy who finds my stash is welcome to it. Just be good to my family is all I ask.

[MaryB]

Why I took up brewing beer, and I can make beer from a lot of different grains. Might not taste the best but someone looking for a mug of relaxer won't mind SHTF if it is corn beer(yes I made some, okay but not good...), wheat beer, barley based... anything can be made into beer and weak beer was the way they survived the dirty water of EU. Beer is boiled so it kills the germs in the water. They drank more beer and wine than water!

[PS Paul]

Frankly, I would go ask my friends on MSNBC or MOVEON.ORG. According to certain posters, they are SIGNIFICANTLY wiser as are their ideologues. The advice one might find on this forum might simply be far too "homespun" or "down home" to find even remotely useful, gnomesayin'?

[birch]

........ummmmm. Could I get a beer please? And, do you accept Peace Dollars?

[smokeywolf]

I have several med bags stocked and on hand. In the most comprehensive one, I have three books: one covers basic to very advanced first aid; one a pill book covering prescription drugs, side effects, interactions and dosages; one a veterinary care book.
Keep in mind that, oft times on med packaging, the exp. date has more to do with the expected life of the packaging than the life or effectiveness of the contents of the package. Wound dressings are a good example of this.

I whole heartedly agree with building a diversified cache of supplies for disaster preparedness. Preppers have gotten a bad name because so many succumb to an irrational mindset in accumulating supplies. While it's better to have a little too much than a little too little, resist getting carried away.

The most important goods and supplies to have are those you will need each and every day to survive thru tomorrow.

I think FEMA says you should have 3 weeks worth of supplies. My opinion is, everybody should have an bare minimum of 3 months of supplies.

Other thing that is likely to be a benefit in any type of collapse is living in a rural area where people are by nature and by habit, more prepared for storm, fire, flood, pestilence. As rural folks are almost always better prepared than city dwellers, scavenging is less likely to start right away.

Just a few more thoughts.

[merlin101]

Wow! Sure is a lot of differing opinions here. I believe everyone should be prepared for a local disaster and that could be power outage (we just had 120,000 homes without power for up to 6 days) or it could be wildfires or anything else including the end of the world as we know it.
In some cases silver/gold would be valuable in others it might not be. BUT nobody really knows for sure! So if you have a plan why wouldn't PM's be part of that plan?
Bugging in vs bug out? I've read post on another site and almost fall out of my chair laughing about how these guy's are going to carrying an AR with 500 rnds and a "long range" gun with 100-200 rnds and a handgun with 100 and that's on top of food and water! No one's going to get far like that!
I have silver, some in US "scrap" silver coins some in Eagles and some rounds and bars and it's all part of a plan that includes food water and everything down to toilet paper and a few bodybags.
Jon B is correct, you can really get into prepping!

[dragon813gt]

Well this thread caused me to spend money today. I bought some junk silver at $0.19 over spot. It was more the minimal price over spot that caused me to buy. I look weekly and buy when deals are to be had. When premiums are that low I will buy w/out hesitation.

[54bore]

Well this thread caused me to spend money today. I bought some junk silver at $0.19 over spot. It was more the minimal price over spot that caused me to buy. I look weekly and buy when deals are to be had. When premiums are that low I will buy w/out hesitation.

Wish i had a bunch to sell ya!!

[Traffer]

I don't want to offend anyone here but about 30 years ago I learned of a sure fire way to gain and maintain financial security. Now I pay no attention to any doomsday talk. Oh, the sure fire way? It's called trust in God. The more you trust Him the more he gives you security. From the inside, no matter what happens to the economy.

[mold maker]

Not being a young man, I'd prefer to end my days right where I grew up. I'd much rather pass as a rich man than the way I've lived. So all of you that denigrate gold and silver as a means to happiness and prosperity can send that worthless junk to me and we'll both be happy. I can only shoot a couple guns at a time so I'll trade my antique and modern guns for silver and gold as opposed to paper money which looses value every day. I have CDs that are worth less due to inflation then when I bought them and the prospect for that to change are worse than the chance for the SHTF.
Just let me know how much you have to dispose of and I'll make arrangements for you. Your not going to take a thing with you when you depart, so send it my way. Might as well one of us be happy till the end. God takes care of the rest.

[RogerDat]

But it does seem on average the lord favors the prepared. And does seem to provide a fair number of "life lessons" to the foolish.

If you can afford more elaborate or extensive preparation, as well as the potential loss from not using the financial investment then go for it. If you have to put tires for your car on a credit card to preserve a silver stash? That gets a little more dubious. As for me, ammo, energy, water, and a decently stocked pantry will have to do, along with a little cash. Only thing that I find troubling is I can't get the wife to replace a bag of dog food as she opens it. Sometimes we have only a day or two worth of dog food on hand.

You know there was a Russian or Eastern European family that after the iron curtain came down was able to return to their family home abandoned during WW2 and based on stories told by since deceased relatives were able to recover buried family valuables. Thing that has bearing here is that they didn't take those gold, silver, or jeweled items with them when they fled during the war. They took blankets, food, and clothes. Also some pictures.

[onceabull]

There have always been positive & negatives tales about gold,silver,& diamonds,as investments and/or "insurance"...The biggest diff. twixt now & "then" is likely the speed of change...Personally I've been able to profit on both the long and short side of the precious metals markets & gold & silver mining stocks.. The physical metals are the choice for the "insurance"(obviously) and one can accumulate whatever comfort requires during both short and long term market bottoms....ALWAYS better to be right,than greedy...Onceabull

[jonp]

Would you all go with Morgans or Eagles? Maybe something else?

Some buy rounds as they are cheaper and are pure silver but I buy monetary silver. It doesn't matter which country, I have American, Canadian etc but a recognized government issued silver coin might be a better bet in my view

[jonp]

check out apmex, or silvertown, or JMboullion, they are three pretty good websites to check on the current silver prices and what's available.

they even have 'snap' boards. Silver bars you can snap into smaller quantities of silver if you are worried about trading them.

I would recommend silver rounds that EVERYONE is familiar with, such as Walking Liberties, that way the person you are trading with "KNOWS" you have authentic silver.

I buy from all of them and they are good. Make sure you compare the prices as they can be off a little from each other. I set aside a portion of my retirement funds each week to buy on a steady basis to dollar cost the silver out. I also buy gold this way but in a lesser amount than silver.

It's all part of the retirement strategy of diversifying my funds.

[jonp]

Canning jars, flats, primers, seeds, lead.

Of course. With lead, primers and powder you can take all the silver you want although All the silver in the world wont shoot a deer if you are really hungry, either

[texasnative46]

To All,

I'm seriously considering acquiring 500.oo worth of common date/"bulk" silver dimes & an equal amount of US quarters, as IF we should have "a temporary mess" that ends ATM/banks/credit cards being helpful as exchange for a time, small denomination CHANGE (rather than gold/silver dollars/bars) may be REALLY HANDY & 100% better than a pocket-full of credit/debit cards.
(I've lived through, in the last 5 decades, 3 major hurricanes, several tornados & an ice storm that "shut down the county", that I was in at that time, for over 3 weeks.)

yours, tex

[Geezer in NH]

We have a forum for this.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?104-Prepper-Talk

[PS Paul]

........ummmmm. Could I get a beer please? And, do you accept Peace Dollars?

Ha ha. Touche, man. Touche.

[MaryB]

It takes very little space for a year+ supply of food. I have stuff I use only and it all gets rotated yearly for the most part. The bulk stuff in 5 gallon buckets may go over a year but I drop a cube of dry ice in on top to kill any pests that may want to hatch and leave the lid cracked until it has evaporated. Then close the lid and you have co2 filling the container as an insecticide. Freezers out of view to the left, more shelves behind me/off to the right for paper goods and cleaning supplies. Plus bulk stuff like toilet paper is in the spare room upstairs in plastic tubs(keeps mice out). I probably have 9 months to 1 1/2 years of food on hand at any given time and usually shoponce a month! Otherwise I shop the pantry!

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd248/maryalanab/foodstorage_zpsf38ed9b8.jpg

[smokeywolf]

Would I be right to assume much of the Campbells soup is cream of mushroom? A typical casserole ingredient.

For the long term stuff we use mylar, buckets and O2 absorbers.

Mrs. smokeywolf says she doesn't need a walk-in pantry in the next house. Says it had better be a drive-in pantry.

[GhostHawk]

Mary that looks pretty darn good.


Canned goods we have been burned a few times, fruit that went bad in a few years, leaking cans, etc. So we have reduced how much canned goods we carry. We do stock soup like maryb, Cream of mushroom is one of my favorites.

I have a chest type freezer which is full of vacuum sealed bags of sugar, salt, rice, beans, pasta.
Iron rations, might get tired of em but you would be darn glad to have them in a pinch.

I don't buy any of the freeze dried bucket stuff. My wife is allergic to oatmeal and I don't eat it. I'm not allergic to it, it just causes projectile vomiting in me. Seems primary breakfast for all of those outfits is oatmeal.

Also they push a lot of pasta, but I admit it, I'm fussy about my pasta. Can't stand elbow mac at all. Love a good al dente tri colored rotini. Texture is all.

So I just stash away what we actually eat.

Don't forget the honey! Great stuff with a million uses, will be here still good after we are all gone.

[rancher1913]

my wife is a little nuts about canning, she has an outdoor canning kitchen thats in a 20 foot diameter grain bin with a commercial three compartment sink and 2 gas stoves as well as 4 turkey burners, her big allamerican canners will crush the stoves so she uses them on the turkey burners. everything is piped to a 500 gallon tank that serves just that kitchen. she has almost more pressure canners than I have molds and the water bath canners put her on par with my mold collection. using the rule of thumb about not all your eggs in one basket, she has 5 pantry's, any one of which could feed us for 6 months. she puts up somewhere around 1500 jars every year and her jar and lid storage requires a semi trailer, most everything was purchased at estate auctions for pennies on the dollar. if the shtf we would sell food but only for silver or gold. if someone wants photos or can post photos for me send me a pm.

[Gewehr-Guy]

Rancher1913, hope you put an air conditioner in your wife's "canning bin" ,mine get unbearably hot in august and september, especially when I'm the one running the scoop shovel.

[rancher1913]

its insulated with spray on to an r value of 15 and then lined with frp to make it cleanable. we built it to the standard for a commercial kitchen in case she wants to start selling jars of food.

[MaryB]

Tomato, chicken noodle, cream mushroom, cream chicken..., last 2 the basis of MN hotdishes! LOL


Would I be right to assume much of the Campbells soup is cream of mushroom? A typical casserole ingredient.

For the long term stuff we use mylar, buckets and O2 absorbers.

Mrs. smokeywolf says she doesn't need a walk-in pantry in the next house. Says it had better be a drive-in pantry.

[jonp]

It takes very little space for a year+ supply of food. I have stuff I use only and it all gets rotated yearly for the most part. The bulk stuff in 5 gallon buckets may go over a year but I drop a cube of dry ice in on top to kill any pests that may want to hatch and leave the lid cracked until it has evaporated. Then close the lid and you have co2 filling the container as an insecticide. Freezers out of view to the left, more shelves behind me/off to the right for paper goods and cleaning supplies. Plus bulk stuff like toilet paper is in the spare room upstairs in plastic tubs(keeps mice out). I probably have 9 months to 1 1/2 years of food on hand at any given time and usually shoponce a month! Otherwise I shop the pantry!

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd248/maryalanab/foodstorage_zpsf38ed9b8.jpg

Great job, Mary. We keep several months of food on hand and replace as we eat. On top of that we have 6 months of freeze dried in buckets and can the garden up. We buy bulk flour, sugar, beans, rice etc and put it in mylar bags with an oxygen tap. Food is the least of our worries.

Cream soups are not just for peoole in MN! We always have several cans of each to bake with.

A while ago the company my wife works for turned over a delivery truck. The insurance paid it off and the boss told everyone to go get what they want. While everyone was loading up on soda, potato chips, devil dogs and junk like that we were grabbing canned hams, vegatables, soup, spam, dish washing liquid, cases of bleach and toilet paper etc...Even took 30 bags of dog food. Kept several for ourselves and brought the rest to the animal shelter as a donation