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adam_mac84
03-12-2017, 05:26 PM
190382
Hopefully the pic worked.

Casted 211 (after throw aways) bullets today from my 235/125/2R mold I received yesterday in the mail. I did do a few yesterday after doing some heat cycles. Set up the mold per Lee instructions. I think I got 2 bullets in teh 0.356 range. Nearly too large to chamber (certainly not with PC). I had hoped to coat and shoot as cast, (i know, a pipe dream), but this is starting to concern me... quite a large range of sizes (and shapes were produced). In the next post I will include some pics of the bullets and mold (need to post from my phone). I am fine with the 130grain weights (over the 125), just means I need to find more wheel weights.

Cast from Lee Bottom pour. ~700 deg accd to Lyman Thermometer. Was getting decent bullets at around 650/670, but the spout would freeze between casts and I would have to free up with a lighter (was ~35* in garage). I did smoke the molds, and they were dropping fairly easily. Occasionally a shake or tap (on the handle hinge) with a dowel.

Any other information that may help yield insights I will try to provide.

adam_mac84
03-12-2017, 05:30 PM
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170312/1216ed11848ac43fe3b017f96257be7a.jpg

That is daylight with mold squeezed shut.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170312/67a2652819febcd7d2ed6392a8f24d60.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170312/05b550d9574aa502982ec8a3d8a538c8.jpg

Bases were really messy. With overhang on them. Measured this way to give better chance of clean measurement.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170312/9d5cbafdd8e7bee49fd215293fb87c40.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170312/b48c8f4a65d15cae2524e4a3e5975961.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170312/443531cc2fe8b7f889deb67eab23600f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170312/64694c1d3810e746c744fdc6e38d71d2.jpg

This scoring concerns me

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170312/7f500a9bca76aac6f1d0d7028550150e.jpg


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adam_mac84
03-12-2017, 05:31 PM
Plated and FMJ pills were used to validate my measurements/weights to eliminate error

Rounds were a random sample from the pile. I did take measurements at 650, 700, 750 and 800* on Lyman Thermometer... did not see a huge change in bullet diameter, cooler temps yielded cleaner bullet bases. The one shown above was one of the better ones... the others were a bit more 'pitted'.

adam_mac84
03-12-2017, 05:35 PM
Plated and FMJ pills were used to validate my measurements/weights to eliminate error

Rounds were a random sample from the pile. I did take measurements at 650, 700, 750 and 800* on Lyman Thermometer... did not see a huge change in bullet diameter, cooler temps yielded cleaner bullet bases. The one shown above was one of the better ones... the others were a bit more 'pitted'.

Example of base. Lower temp improved this

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170312/5c9b7ed7be9deee3605052ecc428b4f8.jpg




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scb
03-12-2017, 05:36 PM
option #1 search this forum for "lee-menting" and follow advice given.
option #2 throw in garbage AND BUY A GOOD MOULD instead of junk.
let the flaming begin.

adam_mac84
03-12-2017, 05:55 PM
option #1 search this forum for "lee-menting" and follow advice given.
option #2 throw in garbage AND BUY A GOOD MOULD instead of junk.
let the flaming begin. . Thank you for your help. I have researched "lee-menting", and do not find that my sprue pin has stripped, nor my handles fallen out. I guess the bullet molds may need lapping, but I do not see how that would help grossly oversized bullets in this case. I will continue to read on the subject to see if there is additional information that I am missing

TexasGrunt
03-12-2017, 06:18 PM
There's two reasons you can see daylight though the mold.

1. There's particles of lead on the face of the mold. This will also affect the diameter. Clean the face of the mold.

2. The mold is warped. It's a Lee, not worth saving.

Lee molds are designed to cast with Lyman #2 as I recall.

I have a Lee 124 gr TC mold and it too is all over the place as far as diameter goes. I have a RCBS 124 gr TC mold and it's spot on. Sometimes you get lucky with a Lee mold and other times you don't.

Larry Gibson
03-12-2017, 06:50 PM
adam

Are you an experienced castor or is this your first attempt?

How are you fluxing?

Take the handles off the mould blocks. Clean the mould blocks including cleaning all the "smoke" out of the cavities. Check the face of the blocks for any burrs or alloy deposits. Remove the sprue plate (the sprue plate screw may have reverse threads). Put the blocks together and see if that daylight is still there. If it is you have to figure out why (or return the mould to Lee). If there is a burr you must find and remove it. look for the base of the pins, male and female, to be flush with or slightly below the face of the blocks. If they protrude at all tap them in with a plastic or brass mallet until the base is flush with the face of the mould blocks. If the blocks fit together without that gap then something else other than a problem with the mould blocks is holding them apart.

With a medium to fine stone deburr the edges of the sprue plate. Small strips of medium to fine sand paper may be used also. Put the sprue plate back on and with the blocks together holding only the blocks look through the holes to see fi the gap is there. If not put the blocks on the handles and lube the pins and holes with Bullplate or a similar lube.


I also lube the top of the blocks and the face of the sprue plate being careful not to get lube in the cavities. A Q-tip works well for this.

Put the blocks on the mould handles and just lightly hold the blocks together. Look again for the gap, there should be none. If there is reverse the mould handles in the blocks and make sure the handles are closing the blocks via riding on the pins and not pressing against the mould blocks. A little filing on the inside of the handle jaws may be needed.

What the above is the QC work you didn't pay for with the Lee moulds.

If you are using COWWs for an alloy flux very well, a couple times at least, then add 2% tin and flux again. Make up additional alloy to add as you cast. Adjust the temp of the alloy to 715 - 725 degrees and maintain that temp by adding the sprues and additional alloy to the pot to keep the temp as consistent as you can.

You will not need to "element" or enlarge the cavities. Do not smoke the cavities. That will get you inconsistent sizes, with many undersize, of bullets. Bring the mould blocks to casting temp with a hot plate or by dipping the corner of the blocks into the molten alloy (at casting temp) just long enough until the alloy doesn't stick to the blocks. I am a "dipper" and have cast thousands of bullets with numerous Lee 6 cavity moulds. Now cast bullets.

Holt the mould handles only, do not hold the sprue cut off handle at all. Doing so can easily pivot the mould blocks slightly apart. Disregard the first two casting worth and add the bullets and sprue back to the pot. Fill each cavity completely one at a time allowing a good sprue to build up. I set the mould down on and asbestos glove for the sprue to harden and use that time to add the sprue back to the pot. adjust the tempo so you get good bullets that are not frosting.

Be glad to assist further if necessary. Good luck and good casting.

Larry Gibson

gwpercle
03-12-2017, 07:11 PM
Listen to Larry Gibson. Casting has a steep learning curve. You can cast decent boolits with a Lee mould. Buying a $100.00 mould will not magically turn you into a Master Caster.
I bought an EXPENSIVE Fender Stratocaster guitar and guess what....I still couldn't play the darn thing.
Keep working at it , follow Larry's advice...it's dead on, keep posting and asking questions, you will get there. I can tell you that if you learn to cast with Lee moulds, you will be able to cast with any mould. I started with 1 and 2 cavity steel Lyman moulds , then went to Lee's when they came out.
Being a new caster , that 6 cavity Lee is no easy mould to learn with ...but you can do it.
Good luck,
Gary

armoredman
03-12-2017, 09:35 PM
A Stratocaster won't instantly make me Eddie Van Halen? I want my money back.....

GhostHawk
03-12-2017, 10:21 PM
A Larry is right. Larry has forgotten more about casting, shooting, reloading than most of us will ever learn. Believe Larry. Listen to him.

B Lee molds are like the CVA Muzzleloader kits of the 70's. Some user assembly work and knowledge required. They are a KIT, if you know what your doing, know how to tune it, know how to run it you can get it in most cases to produce what you want. Shootable boolits.

If your going to be fussy about size, weight, etc, spend 5 times as much for one of those good molds.

That being said I find the Lee 6 cavity a world of quality better than the 2 cavitys.

I also take a file, then a stone to the edge of the sprue plate, rounding it slightly so it won't gall, scrape and scar the top of the mold blocks. Some are much better than others. But some are stamped out and leave a sharp slight raised edge.

Temp is vital, learning to recognise the signs as to what is warm but not warm enough, what is just right, and what is too hot tends to be the hard part. But once learned becomes second nature.

Last, every Lee mold is an individual with its own quirks. I wish someone had told me to start a notebook and keep notes on what I learned about each. So I am telling you. Do it.

After you have 15 molds and have worn out and replaced a few they get hard to remember which was which and which one wanted what. Pencil and paper are your friend. And I hate to write.

Trust Larry.

adam_mac84
03-12-2017, 10:26 PM
Thank you all.

Larry. I flux when melting the WW with wooden stir stick. Scraping sides etc. in the pot after melting ingots I was using paraffin wax as flux.

I have cleaned the sprue plate. And checked some of the items you mentioned Larry. Thank you

I am just looking for steel plate and action shooting bullets here. Minute of bad guy type stuff. I will also contact Lee in the AM to see what they know about things.


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DSRichert
03-12-2017, 11:39 PM
Load them and shoot em

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Shiloh
03-13-2017, 11:22 AM
option #1 search this forum for "lee-menting" and follow advice given.
option #2 throw in garbage AND BUY A GOOD MOULD instead of junk.
let the flaming begin.

I have quality boolits from LEE molds. Some more take more work than others. I also have Lyman molds, an old Ideal, and will have a NOE.

Shiloh

JonB_in_Glencoe
03-13-2017, 12:16 PM
The most common cause of varied boolit diameters from a Lee 6 cavity mold, as you charted (.357 to .367 ...WOW), is what Larry mentioned, "Hold the mould handles only, do not hold the sprue cut off handle at all. Doing so can easily pivot the mould blocks slightly apart."
I'll also add, when casting with any boolit mold, a firm and consistent grip on the mold handles during the pour and as they solidify, will give the best consistent results...lubing the alignment pins helps a lot as well.

runfiverun
03-13-2017, 12:47 PM
check your alignment pins.
I'd say your front one needs to be tapped in a tick.

mozeppa
03-13-2017, 02:31 PM
i own a 79 stratocaster....and i am eddie van halen.

















okay...i'm not.:(

psweigle
03-13-2017, 04:15 PM
I'm thinking you have a bad lee mold. It happens. Sent your pictures to lee and see what they have to say. I had one that was warped and they sent me a new one in 3 days.

Walter Laich
03-13-2017, 04:33 PM
I had a Lee mold that let in light like yous. Would wack (scientific mold term) it closed each time before pouring lead in; used a piece of wood so I wouldn't the denting the aluminum mold blocks. After a half-dozen or so wacks the mold would close nice and tight. Figured I was 'seating' the mold halves and wore away the high points.

Also the heat seemed to help the fit of the two halves.

It's one of my 'enjoyable' molds now.

hutch18414
03-13-2017, 06:51 PM
After you get that Lee mold kit sorted out I would recomend searching for a thread by Goodsteel called "consistency in casting". It gives some really good advice on getting the most consistent bullets out of your casting sessions. Instead of having my bullet weight vary by 3-4 grains my average is + or - .7 grs. using his methods and tips. Casting is a lot like that Stratocaster, you get out of it what you put into it. If you are willing to put a little time and effort in the results can be fantastic. Although I prefer my Les Paul Custom to a Strat at times, I still own a vintage 71 Strat. And regardless of the mold snobs with plenty of money, Lee molds can produce fine bullets. That 7/10 grain variation is with a Lee mold.And the last time I weight sorted 180 gr SMK bullets, I had more variation than that.

JSnover
03-13-2017, 07:08 PM
A "firm and consistent grip," yes but remember you're casting boolits, not cracking walnuts. The blocks can spring or the handles can crack. Or both.
Learned that one with my first Lee aluminum 6-cav.

bullseye67
03-13-2017, 07:50 PM
Good afternoon, I have posted this before....
Lee molds can produce consistent results. Keeping a written log of each mold and the alloy used is important. The Lee mold in these pictures casts 163.8gr-164.5gr boolits average is 164.15 and measured .359. That is only .35gr either way. I have weighted out commercial bullets that had a wider spread. I have been casting for 35 years and every now and then I get stumped and can't figure out why the boolits are not good. Set that mold aside and cast with another one for a while. Then go back and pick up the first mold off the hot plate and lo-an-behold I can make good boolits with it. Just don't sweat it. I learned with a one cavity 38 wadcutter mold and a dipper. The guy that taught us to cast, reload and shoot a revolver had a motto..."If a cast bullet isn't perfect don't waste good powder and primers, you can re-cast bad bullets, you can't call back a bad shot." I have tried to keep that lesson current with my casting. I cull hard....sometimes there are few other days more.....
I only know Larry from the forums....but I read and take his word as gospel in the cast bible :-)

Hogtamer
03-13-2017, 08:00 PM
Very little effort so try this: I found that by loosening the bolt a tiny amount that holds the handles together closed a gap on one of my lee molds. Experiment with that and see. If one of the handles is just a bit twisted this may be the problem. If that doesn't do it try the reverse. 9/16 " wrench if I recall.

fredj338
03-13-2017, 08:07 PM
One reason I size, especially with Lee molds, to get uniform dia. Yes alloy & temp affect final size & weight. The more uniform the heat & alloy the more uniform the bullet. I didn't see what alloy you are using but with that same mold I get bullets in the 126gr range. Expect more variation with a 6cav mold than 2cav Lee, more holes to get identical or wrong.

MT Chambers
03-13-2017, 09:10 PM
A Lee mold can be used for diff. guns with very diff. bore diameters....smart fellers.

JSnover
03-14-2017, 08:38 AM
A Lee mold can be used for diff. guns with very diff. bore diameters....smart fellers.
It's funny because it's true!

Tackleberry41
03-14-2017, 11:21 AM
Guitars is not a very good analogy. A good player can pick up a cheap guitar and play it well, a poor player cant play anything. It takes 100s of hours of practice to get good with a guitar, even then some just don't have the knack for it.

Bullet casting, its just following the directions. Just about anybody can cast, there's no knack to it or having rhythm. If you do what it says in the instructions, you end up with bullets. But low quality equipment like guitars can make problems. Most of us cut our teeth on Lee, usually with plenty of frustration. Once I switched over to NOE, all those frustrations disappeared. Follow NOE directions and you will not have issues making good bullets.

Now Lee can be compared to cheap guitars. Sure you can go buy some Chinese made squire, fix it up, do some upgrades. But its still the same cheap laminated wood underneath. Lee is still the same low quality aluminum.

RogerDat
03-14-2017, 11:54 AM
Bosh and poshwa! Yes Lee or any other company can and do have "issues" from time to time. But until you do the stuff Larry outlined you haven't yet eliminated the loose nut on the handle as the primary cause. Some stuff such as dimpled base is timing/temp/tempo related. As the OP indicated his testing showed it could be eliminated by slightly cooler temps. He is on the right track to test and examine, then refine.

Daylight through a mold is a problem finding the cause of that problem solves others, each step refines things toward better quality and more consistent output. I do have a new sharpening stone I use to touch up the surface of the sprue plate, and touch the edges with a small fine file to check for burrs. I also put on the cheaters or use a magnifying glass to look for small burrs on vent lines or around mold cavities. Clean those off with a toothpick.

One can and should expect some difference between a $100+ NOE mold and a $40 Lee. Both should be able to be functional but the more expensive mold will provide consistency with possibly less effort on your part.

I can shoot Lee SWC in TL design in 38 as cast BUT they shoot more accurately if I take the time to run them through a sizer. Consistent bullets of correct size in many cases are not going to be a mold only proposition if you want better accuracy.

260 Striker
03-14-2017, 05:18 PM
All good advice given so far. Also check to see if each half is pivoting freely on its attachment screw. If there is any binding the halves will not close freely and theoretically the cavity furthest from the hinge will produce the largest bullet and the cavity closest to the hinge will produce the smallest diameter bullet. I have encountered contact with the handles with Lyman molds and had to relieve the inside of the handles to let the halves freely pivot on their attachment screws. If your blocks have the newer steel inserts for the alignment pins you may have to "gently" tap the halves together to help set the alignment pins as was mentioned before. Lee molds can produce extremely round and consistent bullets. Lee blocks have a place in the casting market just like the more expensive brands. I have never used the six cavity Lee blocks but have had great success with many of their two cavity molds. I'm sure you will get it straightened out with the good advice you are getting on this post.

adam_mac84
03-15-2017, 08:57 PM
Update for those of you who care to hear.

I was working through some things with Lee customer service, and had just sent a message to Amazon with a question regarding return/exchange IF the product was deemed to have an issue by the manufacturer... if it would go through LEE or Amazon. Well, TUESAY morning at 448AM an email was populated to my gmail that said a new mold block was on its way to me, 1 day shipping.

Long story short, went through similar prep process as the first mold. No daylight between the blocks, no excessive grinding on the sprue plate, and bullets dropping 0.3565 +/- .001 and 129.3 grains most consistently, +/- maybe 0.4gr (conservative estimates, have not run the numbers yet). Hugely improved using all of the same procedures/equipment I had previously. I still have some way to go on consistency, as there were CERTAINLY some culls to be pulled out, but the new mold made a significant change. Confirms my mind questioning the first mold.

Taterhead
03-16-2017, 07:19 PM
This is a good update. So glad it worked out when all is said and done.

With me being a new caster (and my first casting sessions fresh in my mind), your experience is another example of why I would NOT recommend a Lee mold to a beginner. Sure, the price is enticing.

My first mold was Lee, and it was very frustrating. Not knowing if it was technique, or the mold, or a little of both. Based on that experience, there is no way that I would recommend that a first time caster get a cheap Lee mold. You never know what you're going to get. Again, a newbie won't be able to recognize the problems as quickly as the seasoned guys.

The second I moved onto an RCBS mold, then a couple of NOE then LBT, I was instantly blown away by the experience. What a difference. I remember moving directly from the Lee to an RCBS during a session. Wow. Strikingly easier to get good bullets. Then came the NOEs. Same. Then the LBT. That is tops (expensive too!). With help from some of you fine folks, I did end up with a pile of good Lee bullets, but that was a frustrating exercise.