What Do Shredded Patches Indicate?

[Fiddleharp]

My fired patches are always shredded almost beyond recognition. Not burned, but frayed almost down to nothing.
What does this mean? How can it be changed?

[rfd]

not thick enuf, not lubed enuf, not pure cotton or linen.

[sharps4590]

You don't mention caliber, ball size, powder charge, patch thickness and material or lube. As rfd mentioned, it could be any or all the above.

[grullaguy]

not thick enuf, not lubed enuf, not pure cotton or linen.

Also can be caused my too loose a weave in the material. ie tee shirt material. If the patch material can be stretched by pulling on the edges, it is not suitable.

[bubba.50]

sharp edges or rough spots in the riflin' can also play a part.

[waksupi]

What are you using for patches? Blue striped pillow ticking is the standard.

[mooman76]

One more thing not mentioned is prelubed patches that are getting old. The lube sometimes can deteriorate the patches. Best thing to do is to try a few more different patches/material. If they don't hold up either, we can go from there but need more info than just tearing up patches. Also gun new or broken in? New guns sometimes have sharp lands until broken in.

I bought a used 36 cal rifle a couple years ago. It was literally destroying patches. Although used I believe the gun was not even broke in yet. Maybe because accuracy was not there and that was mostly due to destroying patches. The more I shot it the better it got. I ran a scotch bright pad up and down the bore, took fine emory cloth to the sharp crown and then lapped the bore. Big, big improvement.

[johnson1942]

if you use medium weight tight weave pure 100 percent linen patches there wont be a problem. as mentioned, some rifles have very sharp edges on the rifling but it doesnt sound like that. pure linen patches of tight weave and medium weight can be picked up and relubed and used again a lot of the times, they are that tough. if you can find medium weight tight weave hemp cloth that would be good also. last of all the pillow ticking waksupi mentioned in a well made rifle barrel works also. i prefer linen.it a no fuss or mess around good patching material.

[Fiddleharp]

Oops! Sorry about that! I was heading off to work this morning and was in a hurry when I dashed off the original post.
Lyman .50 caliber Deerstalker, .495" ball, new store-bought T/C cotton blue & yellow pillow ticking .018" pre-lubed patches, and 70gr. of fff real black powder.
There. Got enough to go on?

[reivertom]

My guess is sharp edges or burrs on rifling and/or too tight patching.

[waksupi]

if you use medium weight tight weave pure 100 percent linen patches there wont be a problem. as mentioned, some rifles have very sharp edges on the rifling but it doesnt sound like that. pure linen patches of tight weave and medium weight can be picked up and relubed and used again a lot of the times, they are that tough. if you can find medium weight tight weave hemp cloth that would be good also. last of all the pillow ticking waksupi mentioned in a well made rifle barrel works also. i prefer linen.it a no fuss or mess around good patching material.

I was surprised Joanne's Fabric does not carry ANY linen!

[sharps4590]

Maybe. Should be a good load if perhaps a little tight and the rifling still has some rough edges. Pretty much what others have said. Could be cutting on ramming the ball down, opening up slits to blow by. Has the rifle been shot much? How does it load?

I'd try a .490 ball with your .018 patch. If no improvement then I'd try .022-.025 for patches and the .490 ball.

[mooman76]

Just because they were new store bought doesn't mean they are new. Who knows how long they set in storage or on shelves. Not saying they are or aren't new but it happens. Allot cheaper to make your own and you have more control over them.

[Toymaker]

A while back the same thing was happening to me. I always score my range rods to show 1) nothing in the barrel; 2) powder only in the barrel; 3) powder, patch and ball loaded. So I loaded a patched ball with no powder and pushed it down to where it would normally sit. Then I stuck the muzzle into a box full of packing peanuts and blew the patch and ball out with a CO2 discharger. The patch was cut in several places as if with a razor blade. A couple of swipes with some valve compound on a tight patch followed by a blast or two of carburetor cleaner and a good cleaning took care of the issue.
Not saying that's your problem, just what happened with me. I don't think your patch/ball combination is too tight. I see more issues from loose combinations than I do from tight ones. My .54 uses a .535 ball and 0.018 patch lubed with 7:1 water/machinist oil and dried. The .40 uses a .400 ball and the same patch and lube. I buy my material and make my own patch strips. I save my hand and use a hammer with the short starter, but the range rod pushes the patched ball smoothly down the barrel. Takes some power, but I don't bang the rod against the ball and deform it.
Could be old patching gone to rot. Get some material and lube your own. Or find a paper-wasp nest and stuff a bit of the nest material down the bore on top of the powder before seating the patched bullet.

[Maven]

In case you need linen patching, here's a link: http://www.joann.com/search?q=100%25%20Linen

[rfd]

Oops! Sorry about that! I was heading off to work this morning and was in a hurry when I dashed off the original post.
Lyman .50 caliber Deerstalker, .495" ball, new store-bought T/C cotton blue & yellow pillow ticking .018" pre-lubed patches, and 70gr. of fff real black powder.
There. Got enough to go on?

the defacto .50 standard for offshore button cut rifled guns is a .490" lead ball and .015" well lubed (grease) patch and 70gr 3f bp. use that as a starting point then mess with ball and patch sizes ... IF need be.

[Edward]

Joannes fabric is where I buy my 100 percent linen in the peoples republic of Yorkastan

[pietro]

.

I bought a BUNCH (several yards) of both blue/white & red/white (different thickness') from my local WallyWorld's fabric department a few years ago, and have barely made a dent in the supply.

After buying, and before using, any new store-bought patch material, be sure to wash it several times to remove the sizing that the manufacturer applies to the material.


.

[54bore]

Joannes fabric is where I buy my 100 percent linen in the peoples republic of Yorkastan

I don't see me getting to the peoples republic of Yorkastan any time soon

[waksupi]

Joannes fabric is where I buy my 100 percent linen in the peoples republic of Yorkastan

I'm in the sticks, so they don't have the selection of a larger area.

What I DID see at the local Joanne's, was fabric LABELED linen, but when you check the actual content, none were 100% linen.

[54bore]

I'm in the sticks, so they don't have the selection of a larger area.

What I DID see at the local Joanne's, was fabric LABELED linen, but when you check the actual content, none were 100% linen.

Waksupi, i am not far from the bigger places such as CDA, and Spokompton, the wife and i venture to and from fairly often. I will check their Joanne's, if any will have it, it should be these bigger ones

[Bent Ramrod]

Jo-Ann's idea of "linen" is a fine blend of Rayon and Polyester. I was in Berzerkeley one time and bought a yard of real linen from an outfit called Stone Mountain and Daughter. Countercultural as the tumultuous Sixties, but they know what real linen is, at least.

You might also look up the local Sons of the American Revolution chapter. Ours out here does a lot of re-enacting and presentations at schools, and the women who sew the uniforms usually have linen scraps for the asking.

[GoexBlackhorn]

Oops! Sorry about that! I was heading off to work this morning and was in a hurry when I dashed off the original post.
Lyman .50 caliber Deerstalker, .495" ball, new store-bought T/C cotton blue & yellow pillow ticking .018" pre-lubed patches, and 70gr. of fff real black powder.
There. Got enough to go on?

Wow! Do you use a sledgehammer to drive that ball down the bore? Large majority of roundballers use a .490 roundball with a patch as thick as 018.

I'm surprised a store-bought buttered pillow-ticker in 018 would shred at all. Your bore may be rough and need some smoothing-out. Do your other patches look OK?.... like when using a cleaning patch wrapped around a bore brush?

[waksupi]

Waksupi, i am not far from the bigger places such as CDA, and Spokompton, the wife and i venture to and from fairly often. I will check their Joanne's, if any will have it, it should be these bigger ones

Oh, don't bother on my account. I have all of my guns trained to pillow ticking!

[54bore]

Oh, don't bother on my account. I have all of my guns trained to pillow ticking!

Just curious for my own account, these are bigger stores and the wife enjoys going in them, I usually sit in the car and impatiently wait, this will give me a reason to go in the next time! LOL

[waksupi]

Oops! Sorry about that! I was heading off to work this morning and was in a hurry when I dashed off the original post.
Lyman .50 caliber Deerstalker, .495" ball, new store-bought T/C cotton blue & yellow pillow ticking .018" pre-lubed patches, and 70gr. of fff real black powder.
There. Got enough to go on?

Keep an eye on those commercial pre-cut patches. They may look like pillow ticking, but are usually a muslin. Flimsy stuff.

[rfd]

LOTS of public pandering "fabric stores" use the term "linen" as synonymous with "fine fabric" and not necessarily real honest-to-goodness LINEN. buyer beware. the match test still rules ....

[mooman76]

Something called drill cloth or pocket drill is very good. It's tight weave and made real strong for pocket material. Should be 100% cotton.

[DIRT Farmer]

Consider your local thrift store. You can find a shirt that the label states 100% linen for a buck or less

[Maven]

Also consider 100% cotton denim, which comes in different weights/thicknesses as it may be easier to find than some of the heavier 100% cotton pillow ticking.

[bigted]

If that is a Lyman barrel then chances are good that it will not settle down (short of scrubbing with valve grinding compound) without 100 to 200 shots thru to smooth it out. Can shorten this amount with paper patched boolits (tho prolly not accurate) will smooth things up nicely as well.

Might try screwing a worm into a ball and run it in just past the muzzle by an inch or two then pull it to see what the muzzle is doing to the patch

Nother thing to try is load about 5 or 6 grains under the patched ball and fire into old Pillow's or a pile of old blankets to recover both patch and ball to examine.

[charlie b]

If that is a Lyman barrel then chances are good that it will not settle down (short of scrubbing with valve grinding compound) without 100 to 200 shots thru to smooth it out. Can shorten this amount with paper patched boolits (tho prolly not accurate) will smooth things up nicely as well.

Might try screwing a worm into a ball and run it in just past the muzzle by an inch or two then pull it to see what the muzzle is doing to the patch

Nother thing to try is load about 5 or 6 grains under the patched ball and fire into old Pillow's or a pile of old blankets to recover both patch and ball to examine.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170315/fd12d488c71a95c0f9f34868d52cc1d8.jpg

This is what the patches look like out of my Great Plains Hunter.

These are the pre-lubed store bought stuff from Sportsmans Warehouse. Don't remember the name. And, I use a .490 ball. A .495 ball is much too tight in my bore, even with a thinner patch. (bore is .502).

charlie

[bigted]

ahhh , i did not catch that is is a "hunter" barrel. this has the fast twist rifling, 32 inch i think and if i remember correctly. this will over spin your round ball and scuttle the patch's. i thought we were talking about a 60 or 66 inch twist [round ball barrel].

those are not torn up as bad as i perceived from your text. i would consider those alrite coming from a new Lyman barrel. a little cutting and tattered along the edges as would be expected from such fast twist and a healthy charge of powder.might try a bit less powder and maybe an overpowder wad of some kind till your barrel breaks in ... altho they do not look burnt to me ... just tattered from a fast twist.

[charlie b]

I am not the OP. Like you said these are closer to "normal". FWIW these were .50 fired with 40gn FFF

[Geezer in NH]

Those patches don't look cut through or burnt. What are the groups on target?? ragged on edges but if grouping so what.

Results on the target count nothing else.

[flyingmonkey35]

Cheap. Patchs

Sent from my LGLS675 using Tapatalk

[fiberoptik]

http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/
Dutch Schultz bp system will teach you all you need (at least for pb)


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Is this the correct stuff?

[charlie b]

Those patches are not from the OP's rifle. I posted them so he might know what some should look like.

Right now I am grouping about 4" at 100yd with my fast twist rifle. I may lower the charge a bit and see if I can get a tighter group next time.

I did try a wad behind them but it made the groups worse so I will stick with just the patch and ball.