Cast boolits and high velocity...

[Bad Karma]

Ok, after reviewing many articles, books, and phone calls I have still to find a definitive answer, or have I? It seems that high velocity (2100 f/s and beyond) is possible but certain factors have to be in play. !, the right boolit design has most to do with the success of such a venture. The Lee boolit moulds that I have do ok but groups are something I'm working on. I have a RCBS 30-180 SP that has plenty of grease grooves. This seems to be the trick. The bore ride designs appearantly either want to yaw in the bore or run out of lube. They can do both.

I think the proper lube is in order here too. I am going to develop a parafin/lithium grease/lomy combination to deal with the stresses placed on the alloy. I am using 50/50 beeswax alox. No real problems with leading but accuracy can improve. I have used teflon tape to augment the aformention lube with great success.

So, I think also a spotlessly clean bore has a huge factor in leading. I've actuall disolved lube on a patch and prepped the bore with the patch. So far so good.

What I want to know is what's been your experience? My goal is to get a .308 to cycle through a M1 Garand. Got the cycling done w/o leading. Now I think it's a matter to matching up the right propellant to the job.

[JIMinPHX]

I’ve been over 3,000fps with a .223 using Lyman Moly Lube with no leading. I do not have good accuracy at that velocity yet, but I’m still working on it. I’ve brought my 2,000fps groups down from off the paper to about 2” so far. I think that I still have plenty of room for improvement. I’ve only been using 13bnh air cooled & 23bnh water dropped boolits so far. All had gas checks. I haven’t stepped up to linotype yet. Others here have reported good results at 2600fps with that caliber. The .30 cal rounds should be easier to get good results with. The .22s are fussy little buggers. Little things seem to throw them off a lot.

[Bret4207]

Depends on the gun too. Each rifle is a law unto itself, so it may take quite a lot of fiddling to get what you want.

[joeb33050]

See the Second Edition of "CAST BULLETS FOR BEGINNER AND EXPERT"
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/CB-BOOK/, in FILES.

6.6.2 HOW TO RELOAD FOR THE M1 RIFLE
Bob Steinberg
My cast load for the M1 was developed when I was a poverty-stricken undergraduate student in the 60's. Bullet was 311284, cast out of wheel weights (which were much harder in 1968 than they are today); Hornady gas checks, the then new-fangled Alox-Beeswax lube; and they were sized to .309 for my rifle. Powder charge was 42 grains of WW II surplus 4831 that was sold by Hodgden for $1 a pound; less if you bought it in bulk. Over the charge was 1/4 sheet of TP; old FA or WW II contract ball cases; CCI 200 primer. The bullets needed to be seated deep (to the "dirt groove) in order to fit in the magazine. There are a few "rules" violated here: powder allegedly too slow for M1 gas system, bullet too heavy; bullet seated deeply into powder space. The charge is so light that the op rod seems to get a long gentle shove instead of a sharp push. I never had any difficulties with it. Like wise, the deep-seated bullets did not seem to seriously hurt grouping. Groups (fired prone) went about 2-1/2-3" at 100 yards, about the same as the M2 ball that was around then. (this was not a "match" rifle) I may have had one or two failures to feed in the hundreds of rounds that I fired. I used to break it down and clean after shooting this load; and I would usually find a few flecks of lead on the gas piston that would brush off with an old bronze bore brush: I cleaned the gas cylinder with a 16 ga shotgun brush and patches, and never had a lead problem there.
Today I would start with 40 grains of new-production 4831; if you are using post-1970 wheel weights, you will probably need to add some type metal to it. One thing you must never due with the M1: never, ever load the bullet to engrave in the throat. You will be asking for a slam-fire and the results won't be pretty.
BTW, the same load tweaked for the 03A3, and shot at 200 and 300 yards, got me my first Master classification in 1973.

[pdawg_shooter]

Easy to do.....paperpatch !!!

[buck1]

All good advice I will just add..
Slow powder and GOOD lube,hard alloy , a good boolit , and a TON of trial and error.
Up to 2K isnt to bad, but pass the 2k point and things become a might ticklish. BUT YES IT CAN BE DONE! Many here have done it. It took me over a year the first time.
when you look at the loadbooks its not so wonderfull all the time, but dont overlook IMR3031.
It has a warm place in my heart!
Every little variance is multiplied many times over at high vel. So I have found it usefull to put my boolits to the scale and hold them to 3/10ths var, . Lube plays a big factor at this Pressure. I prefer beeswax over pharifin, Its less temp sensitive and just seems to work better for me.
pressure and variation is the true foe here . Hang in there and go SLOW and you will get it. MY .02...Buck

[Bret4207]

If you can locate the old NRA "Cast Bullets" book there is quite a bit of info there. If Bob Steinberg is our own BobS then I'd bet what he says will work very well. Bob impresses me as a reputable authority.

[docone31]

I used to use IMR 3031 for everything, untill I found surplus 4895. That I found is my one powder now. I have more latitude with jacketed and cast with it than 3031.

[Larry Gibson]

I used to use IMR 3031 for everything, untill I found surplus 4895. That I found is my one powder now. I have more latitude with jacketed and cast with it than 3031.

I second that, I found many years ago that 4895 was a much more versatile medium burning powder for cast and jacketed bullets.

Larry Gibson

[jonk]

I've not shot much cast out of my M1 Garands as I have a lot of surplus, but at some point will.

That said, I've done it a few times. Getting the action to cycle is no big deal. I think I've used 3031, 4064, 4895, and BLC2, all on the light side, moving a 150 gr cast bullet at about 1900 fps, and all of them cycled the action. I never noted any great accuracy from the bullet in question- but getting the action to cycle is no biggie.

I'd think I'd try about 30-35 gr of 4895 these days with a variety of bullets- I have a 311284 handy, but some lee molds too- and a filler of some sort. Ought to yeild somewhere between 1900 and 2100 fps.

[AlaskaMike]

38.0 grains of IMR 4895 gave me 1940 fps in my M1, using 311332 with LC NM cases. It mostly cycled the action, but I think once or twice it would eject the empty but fail to chamber the next round.

40.0 grains was a little better, giving an average of 2036 fps.

Mike

[runfiverun]

i'll vote for the 4895 also. if you wanna go faster at least you know where you are at.
funny thing about 4895" though, my 308 likes imr, and the 7mm likes the hodgdons.
my wifes likes no filler and a pistol primer.and mine likes a filler with a rifle primer.
stoopid guns.......