My 44-56WC - .44VHS

[OlDeuce]

Today was Great!......I was at my play Station working up a perfect load for my 44-56 with a 209 cast boolit
189885189886189888189890

[OlDeuce]

Guys.............got a question?????? Do you know the outcome of compressing the Winchester 748 powder??? on the chart the -02.0 with 47.4gr
of 748 is damn close to a compressed load.........the chg. felt good the primer looked good ! the brass didn't have any funny marks!!

Ol Deuce

[OlDeuce]

Well I took a different route using IMR3031 with a 310gr GC cast boolit

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee143/OlDeuce/IMG_4077_zpsgqhyb3qp.jpg (http://s230.photobucket.com/user/OlDeuce/media/IMG_4077_zpsgqhyb3qp.jpg.html)

Ol Deuce

[OlDeuce]

2nd test
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee143/OlDeuce/IMG_4078_zpsdopa0laf.jpg (http://s230.photobucket.com/user/OlDeuce/media/IMG_4078_zpsdopa0laf.jpg.html)

OL Deuce

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Looks like a fun project ! That 26" barrel should give you some good powder options. I can see it getting all the burn with the medium powders. As a side note you may know when Winchester was working the 375 Win cartridge into the 94 they used standard 94 frames. The Big Bore frame was a "later on idea" before production began. No idea if the development cracked any 94 frames.

Having been shooting in Marlin 336's rebored to .412 for some time I do think H4198 will serve you well.
In a 414 Supermag and a 405 JES (.414/444) H4198 turned in the best accuracy and the best velocities. I did not try 3031 as I only had enough to load maybe 5 cartridges.
Your case length falls right in between the our two as the 414 supermag is 1.6 (2.00 OAL). The 405 JES reflects the 444 Marlin with just a slightly shorter case but the same OAL of about 2.55 - 2.600 .

Bullets.. We use all cast with GC ranging from 265 - 320. These weights seem to be the better for what we view the real use of a caliber .41 rifle / carbine. Do have a 345 grain load but it is pushing the case and twist to the limit. We view it as a under 50 yard "stopper" type.
Not saying H4198 is "the best" for your tests but it does do very well in all the large straight wall cartridges we use it in.
Mike in Peru

[OlDeuce]

Good morning
Looks like a fun project ! That 26" barrel should give you some good powder options. I can see it getting all the burn with the medium powders. As a side note you may know when Winchester was working the 375 Win cartridge into the 94 they used standard 94 frames. The Big Bore frame was a "later on idea" before production began. No idea if the development cracked any 94 frames.

Having been shooting in Marlin 336's rebored to .412 for some time I do think H4198 will serve you well.
In a 414 Supermag and a 405 JES (.414/444) H4198 turned in the best accuracy and the best velocities. I did not try 3031 as I only had enough to load maybe 5 cartridges.
Your case length falls right in between the our two as the 414 supermag is 1.6 (2.00 OAL). The 405 JES reflects the 444 Marlin with just a slightly shorter case but the same OAL of about 2.55 - 2.600 .

Bullets.. We use all cast with GC ranging from 265 - 320. These weights seem to be the better for what we view the real use of a caliber .41 rifle / carbine. Do have a 345 grain load but it is pushing the case and twist to the limit. We view it as a under 50 yard "stopper" type.
Not saying H4198 is "the best" for your tests but it does do very well in all the large straight wall cartridges we use it in.
Mike in Peru

Hi Mike.........This project I've been using the Old 1894 Winchesters kinda like throwing caution to the wind LoL.....But so far the testing is going
in the right direction!!! The 26'' relined barrel is starting to preform well I've got one more go around with 3031 to try and get my group tightened up
and than I'll move to 4198 . I'll start with ??? 19gr on the 310gr GC and see how she does.. 4198 is a staple to my 32" barrel 1894 with a 300gr cast
I've got my BP ready to go but need to get this Ol'Girl on the mark before I throw another Monkey Wrench in the works!!!!
Once I get this brut working well I'm thinking about changing the action to a early '70s 94 action for the the external rail screws ! By doing this I
should be able to lever the gun and that will complete the project!

Randy aka Ol Deuce

[missionary5155]

Howdy Randy
Do keep the information flowing. I do enjoy reading from others who can see beyond the "anybody can have this" and move to the "this is for me" realm of unique firearms.
This 44-56WC smells like a hot blackberry pie sitting on a counter all to lonely.
Mike in Peru

[OlDeuce]

Howdy Randy
Do keep the information flowing. I do enjoy reading from others who can see beyond the "anybody can have this" and move to the "this is for me" realm of unique firearms.
This 44-56WC smells like a hot blackberry pie sitting on a counter all to lonely.
Mike in Peru

Hi Mike....The Hot Blackberry pie with Ice Cream ...:razz:....yum !!!!!!!

I've got the next round loaded.....Tomorrow I should be able fire !!! and I will keep ya posted !!

Ol Deuce

[OlDeuce]

New test after the pie & Hot Tea tehehe
Lowered the powder charge by 10% and adjusted the sight to the right

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee143/OlDeuce/IMG_4079_zpsuf3thxyp.jpg (http://s230.photobucket.com/user/OlDeuce/media/IMG_4079_zpsuf3thxyp.jpg.html)

Ol Deuce

[OlDeuce]

Ready to go for the test tomorrow!!!!

[OlDeuce]

Pie was Good!!! Shooting was GREAT!!! 44-56WC Rules
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee143/OlDeuce/IMG_4086_zpsqo2idpii.jpg (http://s230.photobucket.com/user/OlDeuce/media/IMG_4086_zpsqo2idpii.jpg.html)

Than a New Test with IMR 700x WoW I'm impressed
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee143/OlDeuce/IMG_4084_zpsdkaxfyry.jpg (http://s230.photobucket.com/user/OlDeuce/media/IMG_4084_zpsdkaxfyry.jpg.html)

Still room to move and be really safe .......I'm a happy camper!!! Ol Deuce

[missionary5155]

Those Look good ! Appears you have found that good vibration spot with that bullet.
Would be interesting to know what the velocity is with those two loads. Would not be to surprising if they are close.
That 700x load would be a dandy.
Now to run them at 100 yds to see if they are stable. Have seen loads do great up close ( 414 Supermag with 342 grainer) but out at 100 they were key holing for good area coverage.
Mike in Peru

[OlDeuce]

Those Look good ! Appears you have found that good vibration spot with that bullet.
Would be interesting to know what the velocity is with those two loads. Would not be to surprising if they are close.
That 700x load would be a dandy.
Now to run them at 100 yds to see if they are stable. Have seen loads do great up close ( 414 Supermag with 342 grainer) but out at 100 they were key holing for good area coverage.
Mike in Peru

Mike ....Pie & Cream... I have the Faith that they will do fine !! I may have to bump the charge ! but have a safe place to move jf I need to go up
a 1/2 or a full grain ......I'm a Happy Guy !!:happy dance::happy dance::awesome::cast_boolits::guntootsmiley:

[modified5]

Nice looking rifles and nice shooting!!
I do love the old 94!
Mine are all boring 30-30's. :p
I have never heard of the 44vhs. Interesting looking cartridge.
It looks like you are moving in the right direction with your loads.

[OlDeuce]

Nice looking rifles and nice shooting!!
I do love the old 94!
Mine are all boring 30-30's. :p
I have never heard of the 44vhs. Interesting looking cartridge.
It looks like you are moving in the right direction with your loads.

This has been a year in development and all the fun work is starting to pay off:guntootsmiley::2_high5:
196745 30-30 is on the right
Ol Deuce

[missionary5155]

Thank you for that Photo ! Looks like a 445 Supermag that got a stretch condition. That should do wonders on pigs, corn crunchers and
Bears with that 300 grainer.
Mike in Peru

[OlDeuce]

Thank you for that Photo ! Looks like a 445 Supermag that got a stretch condition. That should do wonders on pigs, corn crunchers and
Bears with that 300 grainer.
Mike in Peru

Mike CHeck this out.......The round in the middle is my 45-60 the others are my 310grGC 44-56WC Kinda Kool

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee143/OlDeuce/IMG_4081_zpsyhxh2bss.jpg (http://s230.photobucket.com/user/OlDeuce/media/IMG_4081_zpsyhxh2bss.jpg.html)

Ol Deuce

[missionary5155]

One fine looking Slammer !

[OlDeuce]

One fine looking Slammer !

It will give a hog a head ache.................LoL

[OlDeuce]

Mike my guess that 700x load moves the 310 boolit app 1100 FPS that 700x charge should say 9.4gr it was my typo:-(

Ol Deuce

[OlDeuce]

Nice day 82f and a 9mph wind from ESE..........This is my first 100yd test with this 44-56 using 9.4 gr of IMR700x and a 310gr GC cast boolit from a Lee mold!
had a flier ! I may have jerked the trigger oops but all in all I'm happy



Ol Deuce

[OlDeuce]

This is how I chase my targets fun all the way around[smilie=l::guntootsmiley::guntootsmiley:


Ol Deuce

[missionary5155]

That looks like a good way to do so.
Our range in Danville has a golf cart that many use for the 100 yard out to 300 targets. I am glad they do as not to many shooters are willing to double time out to the berns.
Mike in Peru

[OlDeuce]

I'll get more testing done ?? tomorrow or so:Fire::Fire::cast_boolits:...........

Ol Deuce

[OlDeuce]

I really like this old Winchester !!!!

Ol Deuce

[OlDeuce]

The Old just has that certain feeling you can't get from a New Winchester! Not sure why But .........

Ol Deuce

[OlDeuce]

Today I got a really good test in between the 20'' 1:38 twist compared to the 26'' 1:18 twist and the results were impressive !!
1st. firing of each Winchester was with the 310gr GC cast boolit using 9.7 gr of IMR700x
2nd. firing of each Winchester was with the 209gr RN cast boolit using 47.3 gr of WW748
3rd. firing of each was with the 209gr RN cast boolit using 54.7gr of GOEX 3fff

198694198695

Ol Deuce

[missionary5155]

Good morning Deuce
Interesting how that 3F load was still giving a good solid nudge with 6 more inches of barrel. But then BP is that way.
Next time you cast up some of those 310 grainers do some in 40-1 (or whatever "soft lead" you have handy) and give them the 3F kick in the rear. But that 209 grainer would be good close in thrasher on most anything it slams into is cast of a "softer mix". That is a good increase over the 44WCF that was used for every task under our big sun.
Mike in Peru

[OlDeuce]

198770 More information

Ol Deuce

[OlDeuce]

https://postimg.org/image/j983h7y95/ wowo this is cool
https://s20.postimg.org/fcurl8d9p/IMG_4205_2nd_real_test_44-56_26.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/j983h7y95/)

[OlDeuce]

https://s20.postimg.org/fcurl8d9p/IMG_4205_2nd_real_test_44-56_26.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/j983h7y95/) test wowow

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Those 310 loads are not far behind the 45-60.
I would think with a slower powder like the W748 loads you will have one good smasher load. Even with 3F you are going to get into some heavy hitting loads. Why Winchester ignored this combination ?? But they had the 405 so I recon they did it want to cause to much confusion in the sales market. Profits has more than once caused companies to be influenced away from good ideas.

I find this all fun to be looking at. Opens up very interesting possibilities when I thing about an ugly 94 we have that was left in a wet condition before we got it. I do think a new barrel in caliber 41 chambered in 405 JES would make for a fun 94 to be hauling about. The 405 Jes is a shortened 444 and tapered down to .412. Similar to a 40-65 but with the smaller rim that would fit the bolt.

Anyway keep the info a-coming. I am happily reading it all.
Mike

[OlDeuce]

Hi Mike...........I'll do some updates soon !! I bought a new shooter !!! and just ordered a new 44 barrel for it!!! It will get re-chambered to my 44-56WC
and we will get some reports !!! Ok it's a 1984 Thompson Contender ! for me it will be a shoulder gun only !! I have my 44 super blackhawk for a hand cannon
https://s20.postimg.org/im6j12odp/IMG_4272_(3).jpg (https://postimage.org)
Keep the pie warm so Ice cream will melt on it !!

Ol Deuce

[OlDeuce]

The ream ..............
https://s20.postimg.org/ghijcj7ql/IMG_3870.jpg (https://postimage.org)

Ol Deuce

[OlDeuce]

Mike....Just got that Match Grade .44 mag barrel :awesome::2gunsfiring_v1::2gunsfiring_v1::2gunsfir ing_v1::2gunsfiring_v1::happy dance:

Ol Deuce

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Ya know when you have that shooting you just left off any alibies. :>)
Sure will give you another tube to compete against.
Good looking reamer also. When we ordered our 414 Supermag reamer it only took 14 months to delivery.
Mike

[OlDeuce]

Greetings
Ya know when you have that shooting you just left off any alibies. :>)
Sure will give you another tube to compete against.
Good looking reamer also. When we ordered our 414 Supermag reamer it only took 14 months to delivery.
Mike

They got that ream right out !!!! How would Flat rate work ????? Do you have a lot of control with gun things?????
This New Barrel it's crazy......400bucks and I'm going to throw it in the lathe with out a test fire LoL

Keep that pie warm LoL

OlDeuce

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Not to down here in Peru ! Things can be real restrictive fast. Officials look at ya strange if you just clean your own.
Now when we get back north I can think of an old ugly black painted 94 we have sitting that would be a good candidate.
Mike

[OlDeuce]

Good morning
Not to down here in Peru ! Things can be real restrictive fast. Officials look at ya strange if you just clean your own.
Now when we get back north I can think of an old ugly black painted 94 we have sitting that would be a good candidate.
Mike

I have the ream for you !!! My new barrel is chambered with that fat 44-56WC LoL now I need to get all the stuff mounted on the barrel !
tomorrow I should be able to warn up the pipe LoL

Ol Deuce

[OlDeuce]

Gents......We have the handle on this WC and I'm really impressed !!! This was fired from a .429 bore sized .430 24'' with a 1:20 twist!
and again using 47.3 gr of WW748 in the 1600fps range!! 100yd mark

https://s20.postimg.org/yngmhsuel/IMG_4298.jpg (https://postimage.org)

Ol Deuce

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Looks like you are about ready to go critter bashing. That new barrel should work out well.

[OlDeuce]

Greetings
Looks like you are about ready to go critter bashing. That new barrel should work out well.

Those Critters only stand about a 50-50 chance[smilie=l::2_high5::guntootsmiley::awesome::happy dance: now to get this down to 1 inch !!
boy I'm dreaming on that one !!! lol I think with a little luck and the wind at my back it should do Good!!! :mrgreen::mrgreen:

Ol Deuce

[missionary5155]

Far easier to get-chu a gilly suit and learn to slither a lot.

But with some fine tuning of the load to get those harmonics settled out it looks like that barrel will settle right in.
Then you can sort through and weigh those cast. Why before to much there will be one nice ragged cloverleaf smiling back at you.

[OlDeuce]

Far easier to get-chu a gilly suit and learn to slither a lot.

But with some fine tuning of the load to get those harmonics settled out it looks like that barrel will settle right in.
Then you can sort through and weigh those cast. Why before to much there will be one nice ragged cloverleaf smiling back at you.

More testing taking a closer look at my powder chg. I did the dip & scale on each of my loads this go-around.....way slow but if I can get the
scope on with the loads ! than I an go back to the dip method !!
https://s20.postimg.org/rt2nh4a99/IMG_4305.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/n76j8roq1/)

I know that the cast bullets very some Butt LoL its only lead LoL ..........that pie still warm?????

Ol Deuce

[OlDeuce]

It' time to do some more casting for this cannon !!!

Ol Deuce

[OlDeuce]

Time is flying .......Hunting season is just around the corner Damn


Ol Deuce

[missionary5155]

Good morning
More pie coming up... Finished a good pumpkin off two days ago.
At worst go with what you have already. You know it wants to group. Set the sights and go run 10 through that tube. I would shoot 5 sets of two shoots. 15 seconds or so between the two shots. Let it cool a good 5 minutes between the doubles. Very similar to hunting corn crunchers and other large critters.
If you have more time on another day repeat the 10 rounds. This time two shots at 25 yards, 50, 75, 100 and 125. Those are the practical ranges most critters are popped at. Aim dead center bull. Now you know what you can do with those sights set. Confidence in the equipment. Familiarization with the system. No critter has a chance. Or as I am fond of whispering as the slack diminishes "Supper time".
Mike in Peru

[missionary5155]

There is nothing bad about using dippers. Our first dipper loads for accuracy started back in 1982 with a Dan Wesson 357 with a 10 inch barrel. Using 296 and a 180 gr GC that revolver would launch that bullet with dipper loads to less than 4 inches at 200 meters.
Switched to a DW 41 mag in 83 and dipper loads were less than 3 inches at 200 meters with a 210 grainer. 296 again.
Once you figure the best "method" for that dipper / powder combination it is fast and very accurate.
We use dippers down here loading the 44 WCF carbine and 357's revolvers. Up north there we make dippers for most the hunting firearms once we know the best load for whatever cast. Have not heard any corn crunchers argue over the results.
Mike in Peru

[OlDeuce]

!HMMM......my computer

[OlDeuce]

Hi Mike:)

All my guns do well using the dipper method !! only because I know how each one reacts !!! My 34'' shiloh does wonderful with dippers!!
this WC 44-56 is really training me on how it reacts to different powders and charges ....It seems for now the WW748 responds the best
even though it's the dirtiest of my powders it still performs and the pressures seem to be low! I'm not getting all beat up shooting it!!!
after I get through this round ,I'm going to load up 30 to 40 rounds and forget the paper and go the the Iron Targets !! Now that's way more
Fun!!!!!

Ok Mike Pumpkin Pie is my all time favorite .............topped with Ice Cream or just whipped cream .........WoW .........Randy

Ol Deuce

[OlDeuce]

Guys I did something different to day !!! I sat down and worked up a starting load for this 44-56 using 2400 .....WoW this powder
seems to like the Big Bore and Long case of the 44-56 I'm really surprised ! I'll do some paper soon Its Fall in Montana and that
means a cold North West wind most of the time at my spot!!! LoL

Ol Deuce

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Old 2400 has been a good powder for 80+ years in those long straight cases. Does not give the highest velocities but has powered the 50-70 and 45-70 and 40-65 and 38-55 with heavy cast to the tune of railroad cars full of all types of corn crunchers.
We have been using it all our reloading life and will always have some close at hand. 4198 is another not to overlook.
Mike in Peru

[OlDeuce]

Good morning
Old 2400 has been a good powder for 80+ years in those long straight cases. Does not give the highest velocities but has powered the 50-70 and 45-70 and 40-65 and 38-55 with heavy cast to the tune of railroad cars full of all types of corn crunchers.
We have been using it all our reloading life and will always have some close at hand. 4198 is another not to overlook.
Mike in Peru

Hi Mike.............. The 2400 is really smooth!!! Got those 110 .444 cases coming !! that was a good lick. I use 4198 in my 38-55!
Hows the pie this week???

Randy

[missionary5155]

Good morning Randy
Sad to report no pie ! But there is a big batch of fresh made apple sauce with some cinnamon in the reefer.
Saw those brass also and thought about the 405 JES we enjoy... Passed over them knowing someone who was working the lights out of some unique 44 bored Winchester 94 was in need of some rotary work on a rainy day.
Mike

[OlDeuce]

Good morning Randy
Sad to report no pie ! But there is a big batch of fresh made apple sauce with some cinnamon in the reefer.
Saw those brass also and thought about the 405 JES we enjoy... Passed over them knowing someone who was working the lights out of some unique 44 bored Winchester 94 was in need of some rotary work on a rainy day.
Mike
Good Evening Mike !
They make such a good looking shell ! the 310gr GC will fly swiftly to its target and what a Thumper ........LoL
https://s20.postimg.org/hjlfuwhbx/IMG_0644.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/5uhg6xqd5/)

giving Thanks for the Thanksgiving Holidays.........Pumpkin Pie with all the trimmings ....Love It

Randy.....aka Ol Deuce

[OlDeuce]

This 310grGC is such a Thumper from that 2'' case ! Love it:awesome::target_smiley::guntootsmiley::guntoots miley::guntootsmiley::Fire:

Ol Deuce

[missionary5155]

Yep that does look like a 445 SM that spent some time on a "stretcher". I do like what that will do for the 94's !
Mike in Peru

[OlDeuce]

Yep that does look like a 445 SM that spent some time on a "stretcher". I do like what that will do for the 94's !
Mike in Peru

Hi Mike....We should get some good shooting in these next couple weeks if the weather holds out!! Ol'Man winter is banging on out back door LoL

Randy aka Ol Deuce

https://s20.postimg.org/zbxuybofh/IMG_0665.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/4ui06s12h/)

Starting to get a handle on count!!! get these done up and the fun can start LoL