TL cast Boolits VS Lube Groove Design

[bouncer50]

Can anyone tell me why they believe TL boolits are better. then lube Groove bullets. I do know a lot of people powder coat TL boolits, But how do they shoot without PC. I am old school on the old lube groove design which i had good luck with. But some are saying they are having bad luck with TL style designs [smilie=b:

[jcren]

I pc now, but using bll, to worked great with the low pressure stuff I used it in (38 and 45 mostly)

[Boolseye]

Some are good, like the Lee TL 158 wadcutter (.358") or TL 230 RN (.45).
the Ranch Dog TL boolits are also good, and the Harris .30 cal. TL boolit (312-160).
Avoid the Lee 9mm TL boolits (except Ranch Dog design 356-95 RF, that's a good one).

[runfiverun]

the 312-160 is a better design than it's counterpart.
LEE completely missed the boat on the lube groove version,
they placed the rear drive band in the wrong place and put the gas check to far back on the shank.

[MT Gianni]

If the dimensions are correct the selling point by lee is that they are faster to lube and don't need sizing or the purchase of a lubesizer. I prefer a traditional lube in almost all cases and when I need a tumble lube I use Bens.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

In the same thread that you may have seen some of us commenting on the poor design of Lee's TL boolit molds...someone mentioned Ranch Dog. I have a few Ranch Dog TL molds...they are a much better design, besides the larger rear band and front band, the TL grooves are larger and that area is also recessed...making them conducive to traditional style lubing with a lube sizer.

[tazman]

I can only comment about the individual molds I have used. In 38 special, I have used the 95gr fp, the 158gr rn and swc, and the 148gr wc. These work extremely well for me in my loads from light to full power.
In 9mm I tried the 124gr versions and the 95gr rf. The 95gr rf works well for me. The others, not so much.
Now I use the 95gr for light loads and standard lube groove boolits for full power in my 9mm.
I suspect it is because the TL grooves don't have as much drive band surface area and therefore don't grip the rifling as well under the pressure of 9mm loads. I could be wrong about this but it seems to make sense. The poor performing boolits that I have recovered have the sides of the boolit stripped so that the boolits actually tumbled in flight. Standard lube designs don't do this for me.

[44man]

I shoot the RD from my .44 and it is very accurate as is the better version from a friends custom mold. I hate TL and use Felix on all boolits.
I don't know about a nine.

[upnorthwis]

Only TL mold I own is the Lee 9MM 124 gr. and they too hit the target sideways. Their problem as I see it is that the TL ribs get swaged down by the brass. My solution was to make a larger expander and be very careful with the taper crimp operation. I also PC them.

[fecmech]

The only one that I've had a lot of experience with is the 158 gr TLSWC by Lee. I have shot thousands of these in all my handguns and rifles. I don't push it hard, 900fps in handguns and about 1200 fps in the rifles. It is a dependable 2-3" 50 yd handgun load and 3-4" 100 yd levergun load. I get my best accuracy with thinned Lee alox dusted with motor mica which also smokes very little. Ugly little sucker that shoots great!

[Maven]

Can't argue with the above, especially MTGianni's observation. Yes, TL designs are an expedient and like most CB's work well if they fit your gun (even if they're "velocity challenged"). I have the .38- & .44cal. SWC's, which are very accurate in my guns so long as I don't push them too fast. Ditto 30-150-TL, a group buy from years ago. A good shooter can easily put 20 into 1" from 50yd. (from a rest) with a proper, i.e., light load of B'eye or Unique.

[bedbugbilly]

I am "low tech" and I tumble lube all of my boolits in alox/paste wax - and the all work just fine for what I do. I am intrigued by the PC though and have tried some in my 9mm (I purchased them) and they shot very well.

All that said, I wanted to try the TL design just for fun so I bought one of the Lee 3358-158 SWC TL 2 cavities to try out - and I will say I did it with some "reservation". I have bookoo 38 molds in different designs/weights - all would be considered "conventional". Well I tried the Lee TL - just tumble lubed in alox/paste wax and was really pleasantly surprised. They drop like butter from the mold - I shoot them as cast and no sizing. I am "old" and I prefer "traditional" things and I kept wanting to use the boolits out of my old Ideal/Lyman molds but the Lee TL SWC shoot so well out of all of my revolvers (last count was 8 - snub, 3", 4", 5" & 6") that I kept going back to them. Now, that is the boolit I use 99% f the time unless I'm loading in 38 Colt Short or Long.

Don't ask me why the work as well as they do as I can't answer it - but it works for me. Another design or weight in another caliber - can't speak for that. But I do know that I will certainly give them a try when I start loading 45 ACP in the very near future and I'll probably try a few out of my Uberti 45 Colt as well. For an inexpensive $20 mold, I'm willing to spend the money to see.

We are moving when we get back to MI for the summer but when we are settled, I want to try some PC. I think the important thing is to keep an open mind on all things and not be afraid to try new things. Even an "old dog" can learn new tricks. :-)

[Shiloh]

I have TL'd traditional groove pistol boolits with no issues at all.

SHiloh