Considering glock 19 few questions

[Drew P]

So I don't have a double stack hand gun right now. Never wanted a glock but boy, my opinion has changed over the years and now I'm considering one to fill that hoe in my life. I also have been doing some 3-gun comps and been using my lovely 1911 45acp which is great, but my competitors are mostly using 9mm which gives them twice the capacity. So, it's a hinderance on the course. UNLESS there are plates that need flipping or spinning. Then the 45 is a huge advantage with the weight of the bullet. So what I'm wondering is if there are any heavy loads for 9mm that could be easily swapped into a glock if the stage calls for plate spinning. Otherwise regular loads are fine for paper. Maybe even SWC or something.

So, I guess my questions are is a glock19 a good choice for competition and is it possible to get a considerably heavier bullet to fly well from them?

[TexasGrunt]

I'm not a Glock fan. I don't shoot them well, the grip angle sucks IMHO, and the grip feels like a 2x4 in my hand.

Look at a S&W M&P or a Springfield Armory XD series. The XD pistols have very close to the same grip angle as the 1911 and the grip feels much more natural to me. You can load some 147 gr or so bullets in the nine for heavy stuff.

[dverna]

If the guys shooting 9's are kicking your butt, there are two reasons...either the 9 mm is better suited for the course of fire and/or they are better shooters

I shoot Glocks, used to only shoot 1911's. The Glocks will never be as accurate but sometimes ultimate accuracy is not as important.

[Sam Casey]

Like my 19. I can't speak to what is needed for the plates, but 9mm ammo is very reasonably priced in my area. IMO no need to chase the empties and bother with reloading. Enables me to shoot often enough to be comfortable with the pistol.

[Butler Ford]

Not a Glock fan at all and even less of a fan of the Gen 4. I still have 3 Glocks in 9mm, in fact, currently I daily carry a 19. Love'em or Hate'em, they simply do what they are suppose to do and do it well.
I was around when Glock started in America, marketing genius, but that has nothing to do with your question. They are reliable, durable, simple, economical and due to popularity there is a lot of aftermarket customizations available.
Borrow one, rent one, whatever, shoot one and make your own decision.

BF

[Drew P]

I have shot them that's what brought me around to the trigger feel.

I like a 2x4 feel on a gun, I have very large hands. I know they are a little different but I feel like I can get used to them. I once owned a double stack 1911 and it fit my hand very well and shot ve well, but, it was jammy so it made a one way trip back to Springfield and was replaced with a nicer single stack (free of charge :)) which never has fit my hand as well. I also think the glock trigger system lends well to competition use, ATM least at my novice levels.

BUY AMMO? I don't understand this comment. I'm actually making more ammo than I can shoot these days so I need more ways to dispose of it.

The guys shooting 9 aren't necessarily kicking my butt, but they for sure are doing less mag changes which can make all the difference in the world. I actually do pretty well with my 45, but 10 rnds is a lot less than 22 in one mag. And maybe my mag changing isn't what it should be.

147gr sounds like it's getting into plate flipper territory. What powders will I be loving for that load? I'll probably be starting with my mp mold which actually drops 130gr so not the smallest either.

[Butler Ford]

Drew, if memory serves me correctly, plates were originally designed to fall with a 38 Spl center hit. Needless to say that in not necessarily a standard by any means but it was a good starting place. If that is in fact correct, a 147 or your 130 grn bullet should have no problems. There are too many reloaders with far more experience with 9mm than me to recommend a powder. (but I at least kept your post at the top for a few more minutes)

BF

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

I switched from a Para P-14 to a Glock several years ago. Can you say "thirty-one round magazines..."? Never a failure to feed or eject. I shoot the 147gr FP.

[bigolsmokebomb]

I've ran my 19 in idpa with great results. I use 147gr pc boolits sized .358 over 3.0gr of titegroup and I can stack 10rds in one jagged hole at 10yds. Poa = poi out of my 19 and my 34.

[jaysouth]

I love my Glock 19s. I have carried one every day for over 20 years. However, if concealed carry is not an issue, I would get a Model 17 or 34, for longer barrel and larger mag capacity. Someone mentioned M&P 9, never a bad choice and less expensive.

[Drew P]

Drew, if memory serves me correctly, plates were originally designed to fall with a 38 Spl center hit. Needless to say that in not necessarily a standard by any means but it was a good starting place. If that is in fact correct, a 147 or your 130 grn bullet should have no problems. There are too many reloaders with far more experience with 9mm than me to recommend a powder. (but I at least kept your post at the top for a few more minutes)

BF
some of these targets are like pinwheels you spin or hanging plates that you have to flip all the way round the shaft and it's very challenging. Even with my 45 I have to time multiple shots to get the needed results.

[Drew P]

I love my Glock 19s. I have carried one every day for over 20 years. However, if concealed carry is not an issue, I would get a Model 17 or 34, for longer barrel and larger mag capacity. Someone mentioned M&P 9, never a bad choice and less expensive.
Yeah concealment really not needed as I don't carry much. But, I also don't have a proper carry piece either. Just a pocket rocket and the bitchen revolver <pictured < So, it would see some double duty as well shooting/ training.

[Love Life]

AA#& and 147 gr bullet will get them plates spinning and falling over.

[Drew P]

I've ran my 19 in idpa with great results. I use 147gr pc boolits sized .358 over 3.0gr of titegroup and I can stack 10rds in one jagged hole at 10yds. Poa = poi out of my 19 and my 34.
Awesome info thanks! Maybe title group is even available now.

[Drew P]

AA#& and 147 gr bullet will get them plates spinning and falling over.
Aa#&?

[bigolsmokebomb]

Awesome info thanks! Maybe title group is even available now.
I see titegroup every time I go to cabelas. Its always on the shelf in quantity.

[gary0529]

AA#7

he had cap lock on and the ampersand is what prints when you hit 7

[ioon44]

So I don't have a double stack hand gun right now. Never wanted a glock but boy, my opinion has changed over the years and now I'm considering one to fill that hoe in my life. I also have been doing some 3-gun comps and been using my lovely 1911 45acp which is great, but my competitors are mostly using 9mm which gives them twice the capacity. So, it's a hinderance on the course. UNLESS there are plates that need flipping or spinning. Then the 45 is a huge advantage with the weight of the bullet. So what I'm wondering is if there are any heavy loads for 9mm that could be easily swapped into a glock if the stage calls for plate spinning. Otherwise regular loads are fine for paper. Maybe even SWC or something.

So, I guess my questions are is a glock19 a good choice for competition and is it possible to get a considerably heavier bullet to fly well from them?

I stopped shooting Glocks and went to Walther PPQ for IDPA and 3 Gun, my scores have improved a lot.
I shoot a lot of 147 gr FP with HI-Tek coating which is great for steel targets.

You might want to check them out before you get a new gun they are good to go right out of the box so you don't need a bunch of after market parts.

[Drew P]

I stopped shooting Glocks and went to Walther PPQ for IDPA and 3 Gun, my scores have improved a lot.
I shoot a lot of 147 gr FP with HI-Tek coating which is great for steel targets.

You might want to check them out before you get a new gun they are good to go right out of the box so you don't need a bunch of after market parts.
What do you credit the improvements to on the walther?

[ioon44]

What do you credit the improvements to on the walther?

The ergonomics of the grip fit me better and 3 sizes of back straps, the factory trigger is the best on the market.

I like shoot groups from 25 yards and the PPQ gave me much smaller groups than any of my Glocks, I used the same type of Trijicon HD sights on both guns .

The PPQ's have been 100% reliable and a pleasure to shoot.

[rototerrier]

I have a couple glocks and a couple of ppq's. PPQs feel and shoot better. Ergonomics are better and triggers are better. I still like and shoot my glocks but i like my ppqs better. Go somewhere where you can hold and see all the guns side by side and i guarantee you will not walk out with the glock. Might not even be the ppq... but it won't be the glock. Almost everything out there feels better in the hands.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I am currently looking for a used G23 which is the .40 cal. version of the G19 I want to get a 9mm barrel for it so I can interchange.

By simply having a 9mm barrel with me I double the types of ammo I can use in a pinch. The .40 cal bolt face will swallow the 9mm cartridge and the extractor will still grab the cases just fine. However the 9 mm bolt face won't swallow the .40 cal cartridge so this is one way interchangeability.

Plus that I'm already set up for .40 S&W cuz I have a G35 and have thousands of rounds laying around. I also have a Kel-Tec Sub 2000 in .40 Glock so my mags interchange as well.

I'm not that big a fan of the 9mm cartridge however you can't argue with success and 9mm ammo is everywhere, so it's a good idea to have something that will shoot the stuff. It's also cheaper than any other Centerfire Pistol Round due to the amount in use. I would gravitate towards the 147 gr loads myself as I am a big proponent of bigger heavier boolits, and cast with Powder Coating would be where I'd head. These would never cause a problem in a Glock. It's hard to justify reloading 9mm with the prices of factory ammo so low, but it wouldn't be wrong as I can load .45ACP for .07 each using my home made boolits. 9mm would be between .05-.06 per round.

As far as the guns go,,, You can't argue with the level of success that Glock has had with it's product. They are simply everywhere!

They are the Volkswagen of pistols.

For those who use the excuse that they don't like the grip angle (which I really don't see how anyone could pay enough attention to the grip angle to really tell the difference a few degrees makes) I would put forward that if you were to attend a Defensive Pistol Class and shoot one for 3-4 days and put 6-800 rounds thru the gun I doubt you'd be complaining about the grip angle.

These guns grow on you, and the fact that they are not really like "Guns," but more like "Tools," is what you come away with after using one long enough to become proficient.

If you can shoot a Glock, you can shoot anything. It doesn't necessarily work the other way around.

Randy

[fourarmed]

If Glock ergonomics don't turn you off, then the 19 is a hell of a little cannon. Mine doesn't shoot all that well with cheap 115 gr FMJ, but I don't think most do. I put a KKM barrel in for shooting cast, and it shoots fairly well with heavier jacketed stuff. Still doesn't shoot the 115s all that well. I was playing with a second gen 19 belonging to a friend. It shot about the same as mine until I tried the KKM barrel in it. Using WW "Train" ammunition, I shot a 5-shot group at 25 yards that measured just over an inch. I was impressed. If my gen three would shoot like that, I could ignore the ergonomics.

[Drew P]

Well I should've known you guys would send me in so many directions now I am totally stumped. I'll check out the Ppq's and also want to look at the Kahrs since I was surprised to see them in similar price ranges. I had assumed they were more.
I don't know a lot different trigger systems but the glock trigger is what really grew on me. Is that system still sort of unique to glock or was it ever even unique in the first place? Is that striker fired vs hammer fired? My ignorance to the subject is probably showing lol.

Scratch that about kahrs they don't seem to offer double stack.

keep in mind that the 1911 is what I've sort of fallen on as what an auto weapon should be in pure form. I generally prefer metal weapons but I won't shy away from plastic in rifles, just haven't really had it in a pistol yet. But, I'm willing to explore these new fanged things finally lol.

[adam_mac84]

I have a S&W brand Glock (MP9). No problems knocking steel over with 124gr. That said, I usually bring a box of 147 with me if there are heavy steel popper stages. We usually encounter a pie rack, and Spinning Star (designed by Satan, I am sure).

My prior experiences have all been factory. I will be putting a few of my factory loads over a chrono to test this years cast boolits... I imagine the math will work out fine. I can say my current plinking hand load is probably a bit light (124gr over 4.1gr HP38 or 3.7gr Titegroup). I was not shooting re-loads last year

[TexasGrunt]

If you want a hammer fired double stack steel 9mm take a look at a CZ 75. Or if you have the budget a Browning Hi-Power.

[Drew P]

If you want a hammer fired double stack steel 9mm take a look at a CZ 75. Or if you have the budget a Browning Hi-Power.
I had a cz75 years ago and still don't know what the heck I was thinking getting rid of it.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

My absolute favorite model handgun is the Model 19, but when I say model 19 I am of course talking about my S&W Model 19s.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170227/ce8d9f89cacdc075356b4a9984e60fa9.jpg

All joking aside I do own a Glock 19. The grip angle is different, but at the range I find it to be a natural pointer for me. The trigger sucks when compared to a 1911 or SA trigger on a S&W revolver, but the gun is very dependable. My only complaint is I cant seem to shoot it better than what is considered "combat" accurate. From a rest at 25 yards the Glock 19 has never grouped tighter than 5". I understand this is good enough for most applications including my own as a concealed carry piece. Still it just seems odd that a snub nosed S&W 19 can shoot 2.5" at 25yards while the 4" Glock 19 struggles to do half of that.

[fourarmed]

Yeah, the only really accurate Glock I have fired was my friend's Gen 2 19 with my KKM barrel in it. With the ammo I shot, it was a very good grouper. The rest of them I have fired with about any ammo were pretty uninspiring.

[Walkingwolf]

My absolute favorite model handgun is the Model 19, but when I say model 19 I am of course talking about my S&W Model 19s.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170227/ce8d9f89cacdc075356b4a9984e60fa9.jpg

All joking aside I do own a Glock 19. The grip angle is different, but at the range I find it to be a natural pointer for me. The trigger sucks when compared to a 1911 or SA trigger on a S&W revolver, but the gun is very dependable. My only complaint is I cant seem to shoot it better than what is considered "combat" accurate. From a rest at 25 yards the Glock 19 has never grouped tighter than 5". I understand this is good enough for most applications including my own as a concealed carry piece. Still it just seems odd that a snub nosed S&W 19 can shoot 2.5" at 25yards while the 4" Glock 19 struggles to do half of that.

That for me is pretty much a deal breaker, for SD I expect a handgun that can do precise head shots, or spinal shots at ten yards. I expect less than 2 inches at ten yards no rest. But my concern is not necessarily the concern of others. Since most time I am with my wife, there may be a need to take a shot that is precise to defend her. Same with children, and grandchildren. For personal self defense I guess 5 inches at 25 yards is ok. For most current combat shooting the Glock is accurate enough.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

That for me is pretty much a deal breaker, for SD I expect a handgun that can do precise head shots, or spinal shots at ten yards. I expect less than 2 inches at ten yards no rest. But my concern is not necessarily the concern of others. Since most time I am with my wife, there may be a need to take a shot that is precise to defend her. Same with children, and grandchildren. For personal self defense I guess 5 inches at 25 yards is ok. For most current combat shooting the Glock is accurate enough. Well 10 yards is quite a bit closer than my testing, so 2" at 10 yards might be possible. If accuracy is the name of the game, the Glock could benefit from actual target sights rather than the functional but not precise 3-dot factory sights. I should also point out that I have only ever shot factory ammo from my Glock.

The most accurate double stack 9mm I have ever fired was a friends custom STI 2011, that thing was amazing! Another very accurate gun I shot was a friends Kimber in 38 Super. I prefer Colts and 45s when it comes to the 1911, but that Kimber and the 38 Super was a good shooter.

[Walkingwolf]

Well 10 yards is quite a bit closer than my testing, so 2" at 10 yards might be possible. If accuracy is the name of the game, the Glock could benefit from actual target sights rather than the functional but not precise 3-dot factory sights. I should also point out that I have only ever shot factory ammo from my Glock.

The most accurate double stack 9mm I have ever fired was a friends custom STI 2011, that thing was amazing! Another very accurate gun I shot was a friends Kimber in 38 Super. I prefer Colts and 45s when it comes to the 1911, but that Kimber and the 38 Super was a good shooter.

Offhand. I would expect less than an inch from a rest at 10 yards, but most shots will be taken off hand in SD. 2inch widens out past 3, or 4 inches with a Glock offhand. That is just unacceptable, sorry. I have taken shots at 10 yards with a S&W 67 offhand and had every shot in one hole. Glocks just are not designed to be that accurate, that is OK for some, just not me.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Offhand. I would expect less than an inch from a rest at 10 yards, but most shots will be taken off hand in SD. 2inch widens out past 3, or 4 inches with a Glock offhand. That is just unacceptable, sorry. I have taken shots at 10 yards with a S&W 67 offhand and had every shot in one hole. Glocks just are not designed to be that accurate, that is OK for some, just not me.

All it takes is some practice. A 4" Pistol requires a Perfect Grip and Trigger Control to go with Sight Alignment. This takes lots of practice to execute and I'm not talking a couple hundred rounds every year or so. I am talking 6-800 rounds 2-3 times a year and lots of Dry Practice in between.

You forget little fine points that make your shots drift over time, when you don't keep up your dry practice and live round shooting.

I see this in myself and so I know it to be true of others.

I just DG'd the 4 day Defensive Pistol Class at Front Sight in Nov. I had one shot outside the chest box and all my head shots were in the head box from 5 and 7 yards from the holster under time pressure.

This was after firing about 750 rounds over 4 days ! and it was the absolute best I've ever done in that class. It took me 13 years and 7 trips thru it to achieve that. Some do it faster, most never do it.

As far as headshots at 10 yards,,, I can make 85-90% of them from the holster in <3 seconds. As long as my Trigger Control and Grip and Sight Alignment are on that day. After 50 or so rounds to warm up, I'm good to go for sure.

If I'm cold and have to do it, it will take me a second or so longer but I can make the hit between the eyes pretty much everytime.

We shoot at a 1" Square for one hole drills at 5 yards for accuracy and I see way too many people do it with Glocks to not believe in them. With Stock Glock Sights the Front Sight is 1" wide at 5 yards. So you simply set the 1" Square on top and let fly. Dead on at 5 yards is dead on again at 25 for most of these guns.

If you are proficient with a Glock you can pretty much shoot anything. Very few Glocks will equal a good 1911 s far as accuracy, but inside of 25 yards the accuracy is good enough to kill people with in virtually any circumstance, and that's what the guns are designed to do. Shooting at paper targets is just for fun.

I saw one of the instructors in one of my Rifle classes there hit a 1' square steel target at 400 yards first shot with his G19. Whereupon he promptly re-holstered the gun and left the range! I'm sure he never talks about that shot as nobody would believe him!

Randy

[zubrato]

Hmm.
I love my glock, it was my primary and only for a good many years where I shot many k's of rounds and still my edc.The gun is fantastic as a carry/duty gun, but it is not a competition gun.
The slide release is tiny as to not inadvertently lock open the slide during firing, the mag release requires you to break your grip so that while carrying or firing you don't drop your mag.
On top of that, it's not a very forgiving platform and will expose your weakness in the fundamentals where a gun with a fantastic trigger will mask them.
Having said all that, spending a lot of time on glocks (and more than likely you'll have to in order to adjust to them) will make every other pistol in your safe shine brighter.
Can you turn a no frills carry gun into a competition gun? Yes with a caveat. Money, time, and experimentation.


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[Shiloh]

Acquired one years ago after taking a pistol class from a LE/NRA certified instructor.

SHilol

[Walkingwolf]

Either a gun is capable or it is not, skills are the same for most if not all platforms. Sorry, Glocks do not compare to other platforms in inherent accuracy. That is why they are not used by many for bulls eye.

My 1851 conversion is more, much more, sooo much more accurate than a Glock.

[jamesp81]

So I don't have a double stack hand gun right now. Never wanted a glock but boy, my opinion has changed over the years and now I'm considering one to fill that hoe in my life. I also have been doing some 3-gun comps and been using my lovely 1911 45acp which is great, but my competitors are mostly using 9mm which gives them twice the capacity. So, it's a hinderance on the course. UNLESS there are plates that need flipping or spinning. Then the 45 is a huge advantage with the weight of the bullet. So what I'm wondering is if there are any heavy loads for 9mm that could be easily swapped into a glock if the stage calls for plate spinning. Otherwise regular loads are fine for paper. Maybe even SWC or something.

So, I guess my questions are is a glock19 a good choice for competition and is it possible to get a considerably heavier bullet to fly well from them?


I used to have a Glock 19. Note how I said "used to". It was a fine gun, but I never got along with it, but that's neither here nor there.

147gr loads can smack steel harder than the regular 115s and 124s. Whether they will smack it hard enough for your purposes, it's hard to know without actually shooting steel with them to see what happens. Now, as far as the 19 for competition, it seems to me like you'd be better served by a Glock 17 or Glock 34. The full size gun is usually easier to shoot. The 34 is a long slide with a competition trigger, so better trigger and longer sight radius. That extra bit of sight radius on a handgun can make a real difference in practical accuracy. The 34 was designed for pretty much the kind of shooting you are doing.

You could also look at the M&P Pro series. Same kind of gun, except it has a grip designed for humans as opposed to being designed for aliens. Although I've heard a lot of stories of poor accuracy in the full size 9mm guns in the M&P line. There's also Springfield Armory's XD series and, if you are not dead set on plastic frames and strikers, CZ has a lot of fans in terms of competition shooting.

[Drew P]

I used to have a Glock 19. Note how I said "used to". It was a fine gun, but I never got along with it, but that's neither here nor there.

147gr loads can smack steel harder than the regular 115s and 124s. Whether they will smack it hard enough for your purposes, it's hard to know without actually shooting steel with them to see what happens. Now, as far as the 19 for competition, it seems to me like you'd be better served by a Glock 17 or Glock 34. The full size gun is usually easier to shoot. The 34 is a long slide with a competition trigger, so better trigger and longer sight radius. That extra bit of sight radius on a handgun can make a real difference in practical accuracy. The 34 was designed for pretty much the kind of shooting you are doing.

You could also look at the M&P Pro series. Same kind of gun, except it has a grip designed for humans as opposed to being designed for aliens. Although I've heard a lot of stories of poor accuracy in the full size 9mm guns in the M&P line. There's also Springfield Armory's XD series and, if you are not dead set on plastic frames and strikers, CZ has a lot of fans in terms of competition shooting.
What is it about the glock grip that seems alien to you?

[TexasGrunt]

What is it about the glock grip that seems alien to you?

Grip angle. Grip size. When I pick up a 1911 or a XD the sights fall naturally where they should. When I pick up a Glock the sights fall low.

[whisler]

Glocks do the same think for me, I have to change my wrist angle after raising the gun.

[Drew P]

So if I get a glock I'll completely lose the ability to shoot my 1911? That wouldn't be much of a loss, but a shame all the same!

[zubrato]

? Not sure where that came from.
Getting a glock will make you shoot every gun in your safe better. It's far less forgiving than many other pistols out there, and when you get good with it, anything fancy pants you got seems like space age magic.
I've put many a 1911 guy to shame with a stock glock 9mm.
I distinctly remember that sorry smirk as a guy next to me pulled out 2-3 custom 1911's and printed shotgun groups at 7 yards. He left real quick when he saw a kid chewing out the X ring at 25 yards with a LE trade-in glock i could barely afford with birthday money I saved up for years.
That smirk made me feel real bad , especially when he started showing off the nice guns I couldn't afford.
Won't forget his face until the day I die, running with his tail between his legs.

As much fun as tribalism is, let's not forget we're still just cavemen who just found a more complicated way to throw fast rocks.


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[Drew P]

Kids are annoyingly good at things. I quit skiing for largely that reason too haha

[ioon44]

Yea, youth is wasted on young people.

[Walkingwolf]

? Not sure where that came from.
Getting a glock will make you shoot every gun in your safe better. It's far less forgiving than many other pistols out there, and when you get good with it, anything fancy pants you got seems like space age magic.
I've put many a 1911 guy to shame with a stock glock 9mm.
I distinctly remember that sorry smirk as a guy next to me pulled out 2-3 custom 1911's and printed shotgun groups at 7 yards. He left real quick when he saw a kid chewing out the X ring at 25 yards with a LE trade-in glock i could barely afford with birthday money I saved up for years.
That smirk made me feel real bad , especially when he started showing off the nice guns I couldn't afford.
Won't forget his face until the day I die, running with his tail between his legs.

As much fun as tribalism is, let's not forget we're still just cavemen who just found a more complicated way to throw fast rocks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sounds about as much fun seeing the seething Glock fanboy faces when a shooter shows up with a Hi Point, and out shoots them.

[NavyVet1959]

You can spend a lot of money on a Glock and still not get as good of a trigger as you would get on the cheapest M1911 out there.

RIA makes mid-size and full-size M1911s in 9mm that use double-stack mags. The mid-size one is basically an Officer's Model size. I have one in .22TCM that comes with a 9mm conversion barrel. I've put a .38 SUPER barrel on it and make my brass from .223 brass, so with the 9x23 loadings, I've basically created a .38 Super Cooper from what I understand.

http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/ria-mid-size-m1911-22tcm-9mm-320w.jpg

The CZ-75 has a nice feel though. Pretty much *anything* has a better grip feel than a Glock. I have a CZ-75D Compact and when I'm carrying a 9mm, it's usually either it or the above RIA.

http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/cz-75d-compact-320w.jpg

[Walkingwolf]

You can spend a lot of money on a Glock and still not get as good of a trigger as you would get on the cheapest M1911 out there.

RIA makes mid-size and full-size M1911s in 9mm that use double-stack mags. The mid-size one is basically an Officer's Model size. I have one in .22TCM that comes with a 9mm conversion barrel. I've put a .38 SUPER barrel on it and make my brass from .223 brass, so with the 9x23 loadings, I've basically created a .38 Super Cooper from what I understand.

http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/ria-mid-size-m1911-22tcm-9mm-320w.jpg

The CZ-75 has a nice feel though. Pretty much *anything* has a better grip feel than a Glock. I have a CZ-75D Compact and when I'm carrying a 9mm, it's usually either it or the above RIA.

http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/cz-75d-compact-320w.jpg

While I don't own a CZ I have to respect the long standing, out standing reputation they have. There are CZ clones with poly frames, and the grips are much more ergonomic than a Glock. Plus a person can use a safety or not. A witness price is competitive with Glock, some even less. I have been toying with buying my wife a Pavona, she hates her Glock, most unused gun in the safe. Didn't help that it broke after only ten factory rounds new. The Pavona is a double stack compact that is available in 380acp, she has some wrist issues.

I did get her a Ruger 22/45 last week, WOW! That is some out of the box accuracy, one hole groups with that itty bitty bullet.

[NavyVet1959]

While I don't own a CZ I have to respect the long standing, out standing reputation they have. There are CZ clones with poly frames, and the grips are much more ergonomic than a Glock. Plus a person can use a safety or not. A witness price is competitive with Glock, some even less. I have been toying with buying my wife a Pavona, she hates her Glock, most unused gun in the safe. Didn't help that it broke after only ten factory rounds new. The Pavona is a double stack compact that is available in 380acp, she has some wrist issues.

I did get her a Ruger 22/45 last week, WOW! That is some out of the box accuracy, one hole groups with that itty bitty bullet.

I don't particularly like plastic framed firearms, but I do own a few. The CZ that I posted a photo of in the above post has a metal frame and the grips feel like rubber, not plastic. If I remember correctly, it's an alloy frame and the slide is made of steel. I wanted one that was all steel, but this one just kind of came up and the price seemed reasonable.

[Walkingwolf]

I forgot to ask, what is the recoil like on the 22TCM? It is one of the guns I am considering for her if I can find one with the alloy frame.

[NavyVet1959]

I forgot to ask, what is the recoil like on the 22TCM? It is one of the guns I am considering for her if I can find one with the alloy frame.

Not much recoil, but some consider it a bit loud. If you're an old fart whose hearing is gone anyway, you won't notice it being loud. :)

I wasn't aware that they were making one with an alloy frame...

So... Quick look at their website...

http://armscor.com/firearms/tcm-series/tcm-rock-standard-ms-hc-combo-22tcm-9mm
mid-size, all steel, 17+1 rounds, 9mm/.22 TCM, 2.5 lbs empty

http://armscor.com/firearms/tcm-series/rock-ultra-cs-l1
sub-mid-size, alluminum frame, 8 round mag, .22 TCM R, 2.81 lbs empty

So, the smaller gun with less round capacity weighs *more*???? Hmmm... That doesn't sound right...

Personally, I would stay with a model chambered in the original .22 TCM instead of the .22 TCM 9R. The .22 TCM 9R was a compromise to the design that allowed them to create conversion kits for firearms designed around the OAL of the 9x19 round.

The .22 TCM has basically the same ballistics as the 5.7x28, but it supposedly easier to reload.

[Drew P]

Wow that cartridge is a new one to me. Nice gun although still single stack. Part of the reason I am considering glock is the weight reduction for open carry, the iconic nature of the brand and the trust I put into it that it will function. I trust my 1911 to function every time, it's been very reliable and I know it well, but I have even more faith in a glock I've never owned to be 100% reliable. Maybe this comes from hype and never owning one though.
Wish I still had my cz75. I bought it off a housemate who bought it overseas on military base. But it was heavy. I also find double action triggers to be awkward in autos, not sure why. Probably because deep down I'm truly a 1911 guy.

[Drew P]

Wow neat bottleneck on that tcm. Does that form down in one shot or need intermediate dies?

Wiki:

A sub-variant, the 22 TCM 9R, with a shorter, more deeply-seated bullet, is designed for use in Glock magazines limited to standard-length 9mm cartridges. Standard factory loads are 40-grain jacketed soft hollow point, 39-grain for "9R".

Does this mean glock mags in a 1911 frame or rebarreled glock to accept this cartridge?

[NavyVet1959]

Wow that cartridge is a new one to me. Nice gun although still single stack. Part of the reason I am considering glock is the weight reduction for open carry, the iconic nature of the brand and the trust I put into it that it will function. I trust my 1911 to function every time, it's been very reliable and I know it well, but I have even more faith in a glock I've never owned to be 100% reliable. Maybe this comes from hype and never owning one though.
Wish I still had my cz75. I bought it off a housemate who bought it overseas on military base. But it was heavy. I also find double action triggers to be awkward in autos, not sure why. Probably because deep down I'm truly a 1911 guy.

Well, they did make some of the CZ-75s with a safety so that you could carry it cocked-and-locked like a M1911, if you so desired.

With mine, I *could* do that, but it doesn't have a safety, so I prefer not to. If you chose to do that, you would need one of the hard kydex type holsters that would cover the trigger guard so that it could act like a safety, like with the Glocks.

[NavyVet1959]

Wow neat bottleneck on that tcm. Does that form down in one shot or need intermediate dies?

Wiki:

A sub-variant, the 22 TCM 9R, with a shorter, more deeply-seated bullet, is designed for use in Glock magazines limited to standard-length 9mm cartridges. Standard factory loads are 40-grain jacketed soft hollow point, 39-grain for "9R".

Does this mean glock mags in a 1911 frame or rebarreled glock to accept this cartridge?

I make my .22 TCM brass from .223 cases. Or from .300 AAC cases where the neck has split. You really need to anneal the neck to keep it from splitting when fired though. It forms down in a single die. I use the Lee dies on it.

[Drew P]

I make my .22 TCM brass from .223 cases. Or from .300 AAC cases where the neck has split. You really need to anneal the neck to keep it from splitting when fired though. It forms down in a single die. I use the Lee dies on it.wow fun. I make 300bo also but it has much less step on the shoulder.

Where do you find load data?

[NavyVet1959]

wow fun. I make 300bo also but it has much less step on the shoulder.

It's like the ultimate recycling...

Start with .223, shoot it until the neck splits and convert it to .300 AAC. Shoot that until the neck splits and then convert that to .22 TCM or .38 Super Cooper...

[Drew P]

I agree. Very fun to repurpose. My friend is obsessed with the idea of making bullet jackets out of old brass cases. That's going a little far for me though lol.

[wlkjr]

Drew, don't be confused about Glocks. Everytime someone asks about them, a crapton of folks always chime in and bash them. You either love them or hate them and the 1911 crowd can't accept them. I really like the G19 best but use a G17 for competition. As for heavy bullets, I have used Bayou 160 grain with Titegroup and it works well. My GSSF load is a Hi-Tek coated 147gr. with 3.0 grains of Titegroup.
Since you seem to have an open mind, either a 19 or 17 should serve your intended purpose well, but the 17 might be a better choice.

[NavyVet1959]

Drew, don't be confused about Glocks. Everytime someone asks about them, a crapton of folks always chime in and bash them. You either love them or hate them and the 1911 crowd can't accept them. I really like the G19 best but use a G17 for competition. As for heavy bullets, I have used Bayou 160 grain with Titegroup and it works well. My GSSF load is a Hi-Tek coated 147gr. with 3.0 grains of Titegroup.
Since you seem to have an open mind, either a 19 or 17 should serve your intended purpose well, but the 17 might be a better choice.

And some of us actually own a couple and still bash them. They serve a purpose, but elegance in design or ergonomics is not one of their strong points.

Personally, I don't see a need for a Glock in 9mm. The only reason I bought some were for 10mm and a conversion that I call a .45 SUPER +P+.

http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/glock-21-45-super-+p+-320.jpg

Functional, but butt-ugly...

But, if you are wanting to hear good things about them, go over to GlockTalk.com and the fanboys there will be happy to share their Kool-Aid with you. :)

[Walkingwolf]

Well, We stopped in Kendale Pawn on lunch to let the wife feel up a Witness Pavona 9mm. WOW! Trigger about three pounds, almost a hair trigger, comfortable grip, 1911 grip angle. Probably hers will get in early next week in 380acp. Thirteen round + one capacity. I will be able to get rid of both her Glock, and Hi Point. The Hi Point CF380 was the only full size 380 I could find for her. If this Pavona lives up to it's reputation she will not need either.

http://www.galleryofguns.com//ProdImageSm/999440.jpg

Only drawback it only comes with one magazine, but fourteen rounds is plenty for carry. Plus she will still have her purse gun as backup.

BTW the Witness compact is about 100 or more dollars less than then a Glock. Gimme a sec, and I will research the price on GOG.

http://www.galleryofguns.com//ProdImageSm/999048.jpg

At my shop this one goes for $341. 9mm 16 round +1 capacity, 3.6 inch barrel. The 4.5 inch barrel(same gun) is only $5 more.

[NavyVet1959]

The SAR K2-45 is a CZ based design made in Turkey and imported by EAA. They go for a pretty reasonable price and seem pretty compact. I carry one quite often. They use the Para double-stack mags, so you have 14+1 capacity in .45ACP. Same mag as is used by the Para P14.45, so I already had some spare mags when I bought it.

[Walkingwolf]

The SAR K2-45 is a CZ based design made in Turkey and imported by EAA. They go for a pretty reasonable price and seem pretty compact. I carry one quite often. They use the Para double-stack mags, so you have 14+1 capacity in .45ACP. Same mag as is used by the Para P14.45, so I already had some spare mags when I bought it.

In 9mm for my shop that is available for $309, they have a good reputation from what I understand.

Keep in mind these prices are tax, and fees included for my area.

[jamesp81]

What is it about the glock grip that seems alien to you?

There are a couple of things. First of all, I admit my harsh criticism of the Glock's grip is probably not entirely fair. My hands are relatively short and wide compared to the averages and I think that works against me.

In any case, I have two major gripes with it. 1) The side panels of the grip are flat and 2) the Glock 'hump'. The Glock hump is the lesser of these two issues. In the G19 and G26 it's not a serious problem. In the G17 or any of the full size guns like the G34, G41, or similar, the Glock hump irritates the nerves in my palm sufficiently to induce muscle spasms after 50 to 100 rounds.

My bigger gripe is the flat nature of the grips. In 4 years of shooting practice and dry fire practice I never could get enough purchase on the gun to dry fire without my sights moving. My hands simply are *not* shaped that way. I need palm swell in my grips. Few 9mms have it...I'm on a Sig P320 subcompact now and while it's far more comfortable to shoot than a Glock, I struggle with accuracy with it, though that could be due to the 3.5" barrel / short sight radius plus not being able to get my entire hand on the subcompact grip. That and the ammo I'm using probably isn't the greatest either.

I considered the M&P but I know it won't work for me with the small grip insert. Gun shops around here are lazy, and won't let you switch the grip insert out to try one of the other sizes, so I never had a chance to really try the M&P for real. Even if I found that the larger inserts worked at this point it wouldn't matter, I'm too destitute at this point to go trading guns in.

Any gun with grips that are flat, without palm swell, are unacceptable for my purposes, and that's most 9mm pistols anymore. The P320, Sig P226, Browning Hi Power, and 1911 are the only suitable 9mm pistols for me. The BHP, P226, and 1911 are too expensive, so P320 it is. The CZ ought to work well for me and it is comfortable, but I get poor purchase on it too, for reasons I've never been able to ascertain.

The Glock grip is practically optimized to thwart comfortable shooting for me.

[Walkingwolf]

James I find the flat sides awkward, and uncomfortable also. I can slip a cleaning rod between my fingers, and the frame on the right side, I am right handed. Not so with the 1911's or the Pavona I handled today.

It's odd I have never seen a flat sided flashlight, flat brooms, flat hammers, or axes. There must be a reason why.

[NavyVet1959]

In 9mm for my shop that is available for $309, they have a good reputation from what I understand.

Keep in mind these prices are tax, and fees included for my area.

The 9mm one has a polymer frame from what I understand. I like steel. But, if someone was looking for a plastic pistol and the other choice was a Glock, I say that the SAR 9mm would be a better design. They are a CZ based design and just seem so much more compact than the Glocks. Probably because their slides are inside the frames instead of outside them. That, plus the lower bore axis, just makes them feel more compact.

[NavyVet1959]

The Glock grip is practically optimized to thwart comfortable shooting for me.

I've put some hot 10mm loads through my G20 and a single-stack RIA 10mm. These are 747 ft-lb loads using a 216 gr bullet. You would think that with the wider grip of the Glock, it would absorb the recoil more, but my subjective opinion is that it seem that the RIA handles the recoil better. Maybe it's the VZ grips that are distributing the recoil forces around the grip into my hand instead of just the back of the grip like with the Glock.

[jamesp81]

James I find the flat sides awkward, and uncomfortable also. I can slip a cleaning rod between my fingers, and the frame on the right side, I am right handed. Not so with the 1911's or the Pavona I handled today.

It's odd I have never seen a flat sided flashlight, flat brooms, flat hammers, or axes. There must be a reason why.

Same for me on the cleaning rod. I think the reason is because flat grips print less for some people when carrying concealed. Personally I'd rather have a gun that prints a little that I can shoot well.

I've often thought about getting a Lone Wolf aftermarket Glock frame and then the upper parts from Glockmeister, just to have a reliable 9mm with a grip that isn't completely horrible. Expensive route to go and, unfortunately, when you go switching around parts like that you don't know if you're going to end up with the same reliable performance as the original factory setup.

[jamesp81]

I've put some hot 10mm loads through my G20 and a single-stack RIA 10mm. These are 747 ft-lb loads using a 216 gr bullet. You would think that with the wider grip of the Glock, it would absorb the recoil more, but my subjective opinion is that it seem that the RIA handles the recoil better. Maybe it's the VZ grips that are distributing the recoil forces around the grip into my hand instead of just the back of the grip like with the Glock.

That seems like a good possibility. Could also have to do with weight. The RIA is a heavier, steel framed gun. Heavier guns, naturally, use up more of that kinetic energy in the recoil impulse to get moving than lighter guns.

[NavyVet1959]

That seems like a good possibility. Could also have to do with weight. The RIA is a heavier, steel framed gun. Heavier guns, naturally, use up more of that kinetic energy in the recoil impulse to get moving than lighter guns.

Perhaps, but the G20 holds more rounds, so I think in the end, the weight is probably about the same.

[Drew P]

My first 1911 was a double stack 45 and the grip was what can be described as a square. Big. And it fit my hand well! Like I said I'm very tall and thin and my hands are XL. So, most anything sucks but if it's considered too big by most it's usually better for me.

Oh btw. I ordered the g19 this morning ;). So i will report back how I like it. Even if I don't enjoy shooting it as much as my 1911 and 25-14 I want to have it as an adventure, reliable, backpack, shtf piece.
You all have been absolutely no help at all and have even done me the disservice of adding to my list of "needs" ! I should've known though,,..
as far as glock talk forum goes, I'll do my best to stay off there, I respect the members here more than any other forum I've come across and there is never a shortage of info y'all are willing to hand out for free so all jokes aside thank you very much.

Now I'll pop over to the section that claims I can't cast my own for glock......

[MKN]

My 2 Cents: Go S+W M+P , better gun , American made. I have 3 and looking at buying my 4th, all in 9 mm. The 3 dot sight leaves a lot to be desired, but the rest is primo !

Full Disclosure: I am a S+W man, have been ever since I was a kid.

Matt

OPPS, late to the party, did not see the glock was ordered. I'm sure you will enjoy !

[Walkingwolf]

My 2 Cents: Go S+W M+P , better gun , American made. I have 3 and looking at buying my 4th, all in 9 mm. The 3 dot sight leaves a lot to be desired, but the rest is primo !

Full Disclosure: I am a S+W man, have been ever since I was a kid.

Matt

I believe the OP has already ordered a Glock 19.

S&W is a good option, as well as many others. After looking at several CZ's I am very impressed. I always thought I should have gone with a S&W instead of the Glocks, but after having looked at CZ's if I buy another handgun for myself that is what it will be.

[Drew P]

I see m+p 9's used for 249$ online so ill have to save for one of those next time.

This time I couldn't resist the nickel boron job they are doing on these. Looks good to me. It's called "battleworn"

Oh also, appears that glock is American made now too ;)
189502

[Cold Trigger Finger]

I've put some hot 10mm loads through my G20 and a single-stack RIA 10mm. These are 747 ft-lb loads using a 216 gr bullet. You would think that with the wider grip of the Glock, it would absorb the recoil more, but my subjective opinion is that it seem that the RIA handles the recoil better. Maybe it's the VZ grips that are distributing the recoil forces around the grip into my hand instead of just the back of the grip like with the Glock.

I run Buffalo Bore 220 gr TC @1200 fps. In my G20 gen 3 SF. I don't notice much recoil.
It sure recoil less than my 480 Ruger. But more than my wife's 9.
The Gen 2 G19 we had was very easy shooting. I was holding a friends M&P 40 , he has the palm swell grip installed and it didn't fit my hand very well. But then his hand is quite a bit bigger than mine. He loves that grip and doesn't like the feel of my Glock with the SF grip. And liked the regular G20/21 grip better. Same with some other friends who's fingers and thumb are a full 1 1/4" longer than mine. . But then I have NEVER been able to Palm a basketball. Have to work at it to Palm a soccer ball.

[NavyVet1959]

I run Buffalo Bore 220 gr TC @1200 fps. In my G20 gen 3 SF. I don't notice much recoil.
It sure recoil less than my 480 Ruger. But more than my wife's 9.
The Gen 2 G19 we had was very easy shooting. I was holding a friends M&P 40 , he has the palm swell grip installed and it didn't fit my hand very well. But then his hand is quite a bit bigger than mine. He loves that grip and doesn't like the feel of my Glock with the SF grip. And liked the regular G20/21 grip better. Same with some other friends who's fingers and thumb are a full 1 1/4" longer than mine. . But then I have NEVER been able to Palm a basketball. Have to work at it to Palm a soccer ball.

Sounds close to the load I'm using...

http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/lee-tl410-210-swc-resized-10mm-loaded-320w.jpg

[Cold Trigger Finger]

I got some Longshot just for this round . I had got a bunch of the Buffalo Bore factory ammo a while ago . Rim Rock sells that boolit ( 220 gr TC). Until I get the mold I'll use the Rim Rock boolits. Thanks for the data, I'll work up to it. I have a 20 lb. Spring and a L.W. oem length barrel. I'm thinking about upping it to 22 or 24 lb spring. And eventually a threaded barrel with a muzzle break.

[NavyVet1959]

I got some Longshot just for this round . I had got a bunch of the Buffalo Bore factory ammo a while ago . Rim Rock sells that boolit ( 220 gr TC). Until I get the mold I'll use the Rim Rock boolits. Thanks for the data, I'll work up to it. I have a 20 lb. Spring and a L.W. oem length barrel. I'm thinking about upping it to 22 or 24 lb spring. And eventually a threaded barrel with a muzzle break.

It's a little more work resizing the bullet from .41 mag down to 10mm, but it gives me a way to cast a bullet that I could not find elsewhere for this cheap.

[Cold Trigger Finger]

I've never resized/ lubrisized any boolits. So, this may be a dumb question, but, . When you size down, does it shave off the excess diameter of the boolit ? Or does it squeeze the boolit down to the dies size ???
Thank you .
Glen.

[NavyVet1959]

I've never resized/ lubrisized any boolits. So, this may be a dumb question, but, . When you size down, does it shave off the excess diameter of the book it. Or does it squeeze the boolit down to the dies size ???
Thank you .
Glen.

Probably depends upon how much you are resizing in a single step. :)

In the above photo, the .41 mag SWC became a 10mm WFN upon resizing. The powder coating had been put on the .41 mag bullet before it was resized. As you can see, the powder coating is still on the sides of he bullet. In that photo, I'm doing a 10mm load using .40SW brass -- powder and OAL is 10mm load data, just the brass is .40SW. It is fired in my 10mm handguns -- G20, G29, RIA M1911. It ends up headspacing on the extractor.

[Drew P]

Well we tried out the glock today. Yep, shoots like a glock. I like it a lot. My gf was doing well with it too. Much better than with her new subcompact Taurus. Well, it cost over 2x as much so it should shoot better. I'm quite sure all this grip angle talk is poppycock. Point the weapon and shoot it. Seems easy enough to me and my hands agree with the flat sided grip. It may actually be what a hindering my 1911 shooting, the g10 grips give the frame an oval profile.

Anyway I was expecting a true polygon barrel which I know I've seen, but this barrel looked different to me. any thoughts? Tried to get a good shot.

Of course my LGS dude warned me that you can't shoot lead in them. I informed him that I'll be shooting only lead in it lol. Some people you just can't reach.

So so nice to have a pistol that holds 16, small and LIGHT! The 9 really has a nice manageable recoil yet puts an impressive hurt on the steels and mud opponents we were facing.

The mag mag release may need to get extended however. Its darn hard to get it to drop a mag out. I'm really trying hard to leave this thing bone stock though. We will see how long I can hold off on that lol.

[NoAngel]

I carry a G19 every day. It's the framing hammer of handguns. Nothing to look at. Not much to be OVERLY proud of. BUT, they work....every time. I like mine for that reason. I work outside and if I scratch my Glock....how would I know? It was ugly when I bought it. It's still ugly. BUT, I take decent care of it and clean it a couple times a year. I'm well past the 5K round mark and I can't tell the gun acts any different than when I bought it. 100% function. Hits the target when I do what I am supposed to do.
I wouldn't be parted with it.

[Walkingwolf]

Well we tried out the glock today. Yep, shoots like a glock. I like it a lot. My gf was doing well with it too. Much better than with her new subcompact Taurus. Well, it cost over 2x as much so it should shoot better. I'm quite sure all this grip angle talk is poppycock. Point the weapon and shoot it. Seems easy enough to me and my hands agree with the flat sided grip. It may actually be what a hindering my 1911 shooting, the g10 grips give the frame an oval profile.

Anyway I was expecting a true polygon barrel which I know I've seen, but this barrel looked different to me. any thoughts? Tried to get a good shot.

Of course my LGS dude warned me that you can't shoot lead in them. I informed him that I'll be shooting only lead in it lol. Some people you just can't reach.

So so nice to have a pistol that holds 16, small and LIGHT! The 9 really has a nice manageable recoil yet puts an impressive hurt on the steels and mud opponents we were facing.

The mag mag release may need to get extended however. Its darn hard to get it to drop a mag out. I'm really trying hard to leave this thing bone stock though. We will see how long I can hold off on that lol.

All of the factory Glock barrels are like that, I learned not to discuss it with Glock fanbois. But no it is not a poly barrel in the sense of other poly barrels, it has lands, but they are rounded lands.

As far as grip angle, and the flat sides some people like them, some don't. I can shoot them, they are not my favorite though. My wife though hates her Glock, she will carry anything but her Glock 22. Mostly it is my Colt Police Positive circa 1911 in 32-20. She also likes my Star Super A circa 1947, but that is usually on my hip.

[Cold Trigger Finger]

Is it a Gen 3 or Gen 4 ? . I think that's a really cool pic of the rifling !
Can't say if it's polygonal, but that is what Glock says their barrels are . ?????

[Drew P]

Is it a Gen 3 or Gen 4 ? . I think that's a really cool pic of the rifling !
Can't say if it's polygonal, but that is what Glock says their barrels are . ?????
gen3. Not sure why they are last gen but they must still be making them?

[Moonie]

I had a friend purchase a gen3 glock 19 today. We shot it with 115 fmj's and some 147gr PC cast I had loaded up with AA#7. It shot very well with both. I still prefer my XD Subcompact mod2.

[wlkjr]

I see you escaped from your hi-jacked thread. What kind of lead are you planning on shooting, Hi-Tek coated, powder coated or regular?

[W.R.Buchanan]

All of the factory Glock barrels are like that. But no it is not a poly barrel in the sense of other poly barrels, it has lands, but they are rounded lands.

Exactly so and I don't know who decided to call those barrels Polygonal. True Polygonal looks like a pentagon with heavily rounded corners.

My CZ82's have these, but the British actually came up with the idea to combat powder fouling just before 1900. I have seen and held a real nice H&H Double Rifle in 500 NE, that had Polygonal Rifling. It was built around 1910, and was shown to me as a result of me thinking the concept was new, when I saw a HK P9S with Poly rifling in 1976 at the same gun shop.

Not much new in the gun world.

Randy

[Cold Trigger Finger]

Yup. They still make the Gen 3 . There are some things , or at least 1 thing I don't like with the Gen 4. The mag release. For me , it's too big. Even the Gen 3 mag release is too big. For me. No way no how should the mag be able to be accidentally dumped. I'm thinking about trimming the mag release button on mine down. Having to do a tactical reload isn't something that is an issue with me. It may be cool for fun and games , and I'm not saying I would want the factory to change it. I really liked the mag release on the S&W Sigma's I had. Had to reach around and press it with my finger. No accidental mag drops with those guns.
Last thing I knew , the Georgia plant was making Gen 3s. Which is nice because it saves money on paying tariff. Tho my G20 was made in Austria. Being a SF model. It fits my hand.

[725]

Had two 19's. Had to sell because of finances. Still have my 17 and it's a dinger. Very accurate. Fast, easy, reliable and easy to drill out the center of the bull. Did put fiber optic sights on it and improved it's all around utility.

[Drew P]

Powder coated bullets is the plan in my new electric apartment oven range thing I got installed in the shop recently.

I have been doing them in a broaster and refining my technique with some success.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I'm quite sure all this grip angle talk is poppycock. I keep saying that!

Of course my LGS dude warned me that you can't shoot lead in them. I informed him that I'll be shooting only lead in it lol. Some people you just can't reach. He was probably a "Certified Glock Armorer" it takes a 4 hour course to become one. No shooting experience required.

The mag mag release may need to get extended however. Its darn hard to get it to drop a mag out. I'm really trying hard to leave this thing bone stock though. We will see how long I can hold off on that lol.

Drew: Get a mag release that has a button on the end as they work much better. Also get a Glock 34/35 Slide Catch which works the best also.

Lastly trim the Trigger Safety back until it is flush with the front face of the trigger shoe when depressed. It makes the gun much more comfortable to shoot a lot with.

Blade-Tech Kydex Holster.

Good Glocking.

Randy

[Drew P]

Drew: Get a mag release that has a button on the end as they work much better. Also get a Glock 34/35 Slide Catch which works the best also.

Lastly trim the Trigger Safety back until it is flush with the front face of the trigger shoe when depressed. It makes the gun much more comfortable to shoot a lot with.

Blade-Tech Kydex Holster.

Good Glocking.

Randy
Thanks for the tips, I may try them later. For now I want to *attempt* to keep this thing stock. We'll see how long that lasts ;)

[Drew P]

So, reading up on cast load horror stories on glocks I'm left scratching my head a little. Why would they be more susceptible to kaboom than other designs? The materials and craftmanship seem to be very robust, and the semi-polygonal rifling (which appears to me to be not polygonal at all, more like rounded-groove) doesn't in my mind present enough of an answer alone. Mr fortunecookie45 proposed in a video that the reason is nothing to do with the rifling or barrel at all but rather the looseness of the chamber and possibly the short abrupt leade.
I dunno. In any case it seems like people are having luck loading for them despite the grave warnings. I'd really rather leave the stock barrel and try everything I can first, as long as it's safe to do so.
SO, I did some measuring based on what he said when he demonstrated a case being loose in chamber. First I tried using calipers to measure the width of chamber but being so tapered it didn't provide a good result. So, I plunked a new unfired blazer brass cart in the chamber and measured the side-side play of it at the rim. I'm getting .0055" side play in the cartridge. I also pounded a boolit down the bore to see what it measures and it came up .3550-.3555" ish on my caliper. Didn't dig out the micrometer yet because i like my caliper but I could if we need to.

Do do these numbers seem about typical for a glock 19?
My mold is dropping .358" and I'm powder coating. So, my sizing die may need to be .357" or .358" for good fit.

[Walkingwolf]

IMO most of the Glock kabooms are the result of bullet setback. It seemed to happen more often with police, who are constantly unloading their guns. Other factors are the early 40S&W cases were not robust enough, chamber unsupported. Most of the kabooms I heard about were with factory ammo, and not reloads. Glocks also have been known to still fire when not completely in battery, 'perfection'.

[W.R.Buchanan]

On the early .40 S&W cases the Web of the case didn't extend up the side of the case far enough to reinforce the area where the feed ramp intersected the chamber. That little area is where the Glock Bulge occurred. I might add that that problem was not isolated to Glocks. I had a CZ 40P that had the same chamber dimensions as a Glock, and also a Para 16/40 that the chamber was looser than either of those..

Latter Cartridge brass had the web going up further on the sides of the case to reinforce this area.

I have found 2 blown 40S&W cases, Both Federals and having the headstamps "FC" and "FC-10" I found about 10 more of these after inspecting all my brass. these were very early cases and Pretty much all .40 S&W brass not has been strengthened.

Needless to say,,, don't reload any of those.

This Glock Bulge problem doesn't exist on the 9mm's because the cases are proportionally stronger than the .40's.

Glocks are more about reliability than guilt edge accuracy. My Storm Lake barrel caused malfunctions so often I removed it and it is in the bottom of my G35 range bag. Should have sent it back but never got around to it.

[Cold Trigger Finger]

I put a Lone Wolf barrel in my 10. The amount of chamber slop was cut in half . With the OEM barrel there was always a good size guppy belly. With the LW barrel . it is very minor and , the button rifled barrel works great with cast boolits.

[Sur-shot]

Drew, I figured I would wait to comment until you got your 19 and shot it a bit. The G-4 19 is a more real life gun fighter friendly 19, unless you have very big hands. You can adjust the back-strap thickness so the mag release falls at the perfect point for a single hand, no change of grip, mag release. I have built several custom Glock 19s for our Special Ops folks both with and without cut rifled match barrels. The factory barrel is just about step for step right with a match barrel, cast or jacketed bullets. The major improvement in the trigger pull is switching the safety plunger out for a titanium plunger. The replacement of the trigger with a Ghost Maker Razor at 3 pounds does not hurt. I happen to like adjustable combat steel sights on all of my guns, so the plastic sights go into the trash. I also like the grip hollow filler to make the tinker toy look like a real gun butt in the holster. I also get my 19s comped with an EDM machine through the slide on each side of the front sight.

You can get a 19 to jam, it just takes intent and a bit of work. It took me 750 rounds to figure out how to jam one. No back strap pressure, thumb and first finger side grip, pull trigger with middle finger. It will jam, but not like a 1911. The loaded round goes under the empty, wedging the empty in the chamber. It takes a bit of time to clear. Last Spl Ops troop wanted his custom 19 to not jam were he wounded, any pressure on the back-strap at all and it will shoot a full mag.

The 4 has one major flaw, the recoil spring keeper ring on the front of the slide was reduced by almost 50% in thickness to accommodate the double spring and can bend or break if dropped on the nose. This is one of my custom Spl Ops 19s.
Ed

190021

[Drew P]

Great info thank you! Of course this is a gen3 so a lot of that isn't applicable. Also I have XL hands. Good to know about the barrels. Glad the bulge issue is more .40 than 9. I'd love new sights but I am really attempting to run this one bone stock, but let's be honest that won't last. I really like hiviz fiber op type sights so if I break down I may try those.

[Drew P]

So since hornady powder expander are geared more toward jackets I decided to get creative and purchased a .400 expander in hopes that I can turn it down to a more
acceptable profile for lead. I'm thinking I'll extend the inserted length and also make a small M step type thing since that seems to be all the rage. They didn't give me much wall to work with but I think it's enough. If I need to neck down the inside I can always braze in a smaller tube o suppose. Anyone done this?

[Drew P]

Aright! This might just work! turned down to .359" with a step that's .365"
It's tool steel so it didn't want to cut, but the carbide won in this case.

[Drew P]

I couldn't wait to try some dummy rounds. Seems to work with as-cast and even as-cast powder coated so it may be a little large still. But, passed plunk test great and seemed to want to cycle by hand. Dies by Dillon (tm)

[wlkjr]

I load cast bullets coated with Hi-Tek. Mine drop out approximately .358-359. If I size to .357, my load will not go into full battery and won't plunk test in the barrel. It absolutely won't seat in my case gauge. Even if I size to .356 it will not seat all the way in the case gauge but about 98% will pass in my G26 barrel. You may have better luck. I shot one of the oversized rounds yesterday for a test and it locked up unfired. It was the eighth and final round of some loads that were suspect. I had to use a rubber hammer on the rear of the frame to get the slide loose and the round ejected.
All my rounds using a .355 plated bullet will pass the case gauge and drop flush.
On the other hand, I size .357 for my G42 and those rounds will plunk in my barrel and shoot fine.

[Drew P]

Yeah on further inspection these did not plunk properly either. The gun went into full battery but must've been under pressure to do so. So maybe if I can get away with .357 lee sizer that will be the sweet spot. In theory that would be a .0015 interference to bore if my measuring was correct. As long as I'm over a mil I'll be happy.

[Drew P]

Things coming along nicely. These plunk nicely.

[Drew P]

Okay I pulled these two boolits and was dismayed to see that they swayed down from .357 to .3555". Sooooo, I guess I need to expand more? Or, maybe due to the softer lead I use, which is made useable by the powder coating, will obturate and seal well immediately?
These two boolits were fresh from the PC oven and air cooled so it's possible they lost their quench temper. Maybe I should age them for a few weeks and try again to see if I can gain 1/2 mil or so.

[jamesp81]

Okay I pulled these two boolits and was dismayed to see that they swayed down from .357 to .3555". Sooooo, I guess I need to expand more? Or, maybe due to the softer lead I use, which is made useable by the powder coating, will obturate and seal well immediately?
These two boolits were fresh from the PC oven and air cooled so it's possible they lost their quench temper. Maybe I should age them for a few weeks and try again to see if I can gain 1/2 mil or so.

Quick question: I didn't see what tool you were using to crimp. Are you using a Lee FCD? If so, it absolutely will swage your lead boolits down to diameters used by jacketed bullets.

[Drew P]

Quick question: I didn't see what tool you were using to crimp. Are you using a Lee FCD? If so, it absolutely will swage your lead boolits down to diameters used by jacketed bullets.
never! Lol. I'm sizing, seating and taper crimping with Dillon set. I'm expanding with modified Hornady ptx .357 expander which was stamped .358A (?) and I've cut it to drop deeper and to flare the mouth like a M die. I decided this might be better than my modified .400" ptx die but I may have to revisit that one instead if I need more diameter on the expansion plug.

[Drew P]

Okay well I tried seating and pulling an unsized bullet and it came out .359" so I'm not swaying them down too far I was sizing them down too far. Opened up the push through sizer a little and now I'm good I think. Loaded some small lots of hollow points with red dot 3.6-3.8gr and will test them tomorrow. I need to make a dang bullet trap shooting chamber thing for the shop.

[bigolsmokebomb]

My gen4 19 eats .358 sized pc cast from a lee .358 150 2r mold all day long. I do have to seat fairly deep but I use titegroup powder and my 3.0gr charge isn't being compressed. I've got about 2k-2500 through it so far (not all cast) but I've shot about a thousand+ cast through my gen 3 34 without any issues or leading.

[yondering]

Okay I pulled these two boolits and was dismayed to see that they swayed down from .357 to .3555". Sooooo, I guess I need to expand more? Or, maybe due to the softer lead I use, which is made useable by the powder coating, will obturate and seal well immediately?
These two boolits were fresh from the PC oven and air cooled so it's possible they lost their quench temper. Maybe I should age them for a few weeks and try again to see if I can gain 1/2 mil or so.

I can promise you those are not quench hardened now that you powder coated them.

I personally dislike really soft alloy for 9mm; it does not provide any advantage I can find over standard clip-on ww equivalent. and is generally less accurate in most loads, but especially in Glock barrels. I don't know what you're using, but if it's swaging down that much, I suggest adding a little antimony to the alloy.

Personally I just use a standard Dillon 9mm powder funnel/expander, and never have issues with swaging bullets down too much.

[yondering]

Also re. Glock bore diameters - some are .355", some are .357". My Austrian G19 factory barrel slugged at .357", while my US made G19 barrel is .355", both OEM barrels. My understanding is .357" is more common in Europe, while the smaller bore is standard for us.

[Drew P]

My alloy is around 4% antimony I think. Yes my barrel is USA and I believe to be .3555".

So far accuracy seems just okay, more testing needed. No leading whatsoever.

[braddonovan67]

Yea, youth is wasted on young people.
:)

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

[NavyVet1959]

Kids are annoyingly good at things. I quit skiing for largely that reason too haha

They are good at that because they haven't had any broken bones to tell them that doing certain things *hurts*. When you get older, you realize how much it can hurt, so you're less likely to want to ski faster than you are willing to fall.

[Drew P]

They are good at that because they haven't had any broken bones to tell them that doing certain things *hurts*. When you get older, you realize how much it can hurt, so you're less likely to want to ski faster than you are willing to fall.

that's why I got one of these this year. Makes me feel old, but it's so worth it. ;)

[Drew P]

Back on topic, the testing is going well. The flat points with 3gr red dot seem to be a nice training load, a little lethargic but soft shooting and fun.

My mandate to to keep it stock didn't last long. Ordered these i dot sights.

[Lloyd Smale]

19s are great guns. For competition I prefer a 9 for ppc but use a 1911 that's a tad more accurate then my glocks. For plates I like a 45. Just better then any 9 for marginal hits. We don't have enough shooters here to do major and minor power level classes so its shoot what you brung. But for a fun day out plinking or a woods bumbling, or self defense gun a 19 is a great gun. Of all the guns I'm my safe if shtf and I had to get out of here fast id either grab my 19 or my 23. To me there kind of a do it all gun.