paper sticking to the case neck

[Kragman71]

Hello
I recently had cause to remove the paper patched bullets from about 30 cartridges.
These were loded 2 weeks ago,and most of them left pieces of the patch in the case mouth,when I pulled the bullet.
I wonder if this occurs when the bullet is fired form the cartridge.
I suspect that,upon fireing,the neck is expanded,negating this problem.
Does anyone here,know the truth,or have an opinion?
Frank

[docone31]

Pulling them, I get pieces. Firing them, clean as can be.
The only time I have ever had issues was when they were just a touch damp. It seemed they stick to the case walls.
I never had paper stay in the case when I fired them.
I do not lube my patched boolitts. They are .30 cal. Same with my .303 British.
Pulling them is another story.

[Kragman71]

Docone31
Thanks for the reply.
It's nice to have someone agree with you when you are a little unsure.
Frank

[docone31]

Why did you have to pull them in the first place?

[Kragman71]

Had a serious"Senior Moment"
I belled the case necks to accept the soft bullets,and crimped them with a Lee crimper.
This left a bulge on the neck,just below the crimp,that prevented the case from entering the chmber.
When I replaced the bullets,I crimped them with a taper crimp.
No problem
Frank

[docone31]

I take my die, remove the mandrel and firing pin ejector, and run them through again.
I have had that happen so many times. Usually when I am crimping.
Sometimes, I have taken pliers with copper on the jaws and literally squeezed the bulge enough to run it through the die.
When I fire them, they fireform and as long as I do not have sharp dents from the pliers I can get more loads from the cases.
Been there.
I almost have never crimped any cases. Unless it is .357, or jacketed, I don't find the crimp of value. Especially with paper.
I have shot some stout loads without crimping. I mean, back in the old days, having a few beers, loading some 44mag., or 30-06, compressed loads. I have not had an issue with bullet creep in the magazine.
Definately taper crimp paper. No canneleure crimps.

[Kragman71]

docone31
lease don't consider this an argument.
My standard hunting load with the 30/30 is a custom 170 grain bullet,of my design,paper patched.
have a C & H cannelure tool,and this bullet is cannelured and crimped with a Lee crimper.
Currently,that is the only crimped in a cannelure load that I'm using.
I am trying to work one up for my Krag.
Frank

[docone31]

Kragman, not taken as argumentative.
I bet that 30/30 comes to life with that load.
Myself, I do not crimp paper patched.
Back when I loaded jacketed, I crimped into the jacket. It seemed the cannelure was never where I wanted it.
I would love to see that 170 grainer. I wonder how it would work in my .303 patched up.

[Digital Dan]

I had some paper stick in the case mouth of a fired cartridge last November. Loads were 4 years and 2 months old at the time of firing. Deer DOA anyway, but I've noticed they don't group quite as well as they did way back then. Dead soft lead wrapped with 9# onionskin, 50/50 beeswax and Vaseline lube.

First time I've had that experience, fired or pulled. Taper crimp is all I've ever done with them.

[Kragman71]

DDan
Were those bullets crimped,that left some paper residue in the case neck?
Also,did you get your beeswax/vasiline lube from Matthew's book?
Frank

[docone31]

I use the one from Mathew's book, but, I do not use lube when patching.
If I store patched loads for any time, I do coat whatever paper is visible. I do not, lube the paper patches.
When I reload, and I have found a good load for each rifle, I tend to do a bunch at a time. I just feel I "trap" powder degradation, and have some loads for that random chance to hit the range.
I added teflon, Marvel Mystery Oil to Mathew's lube receipe. I don' know if it works, or adds anything, but, it did not seem to hurt anything.
By the by. Mathew's lube is also excellent boot conditioner, as well as holster and knife sheath conditioner.
I have yet to try putting a primer into a 45/70 case, loading it, then front stuffing it like he did with his Rolly Block. Sounds like an inexpensive way to make the Rolly into a 45/90, or 45/120.
I have to wonder 'Why?".
45/70 is a pretty good load as is.

[Digital Dan]

DDan
Were those bullets crimped,that left some paper residue in the case neck?
Also,did you get your beeswax/vasiline lube from Matthew's book?
Frank

Yes to the Matthews recipe and the cartridges have a very mild taper crimp. I'm not disappointed in this, just passing on my experience. I loaded a bunch of it back then with the express intent of testing Matthew's assertions. Now I know. I will continue using the recipe...it works and I like the way it smells.:-D

The load is 17.0 Li'l Gun under a 300 grain RNFB, 9# onionskin and card wad. Mildly compressed in a .44 Mag case with magnum LP primers, probably Federal. 1600 FPS +/-. Bullets come from Montana Precision swaging and are .422" diameter.

The specific bullet recovered from the deer, retained weight over 270 gr.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/PaperPatchDeer009.jpg