A 'Red-Headed Stepchild' Mold...Arsenal 311-176-LFN

[OS OK]

Oooops....I meant Arsenal..^^^...not Accurate.

This thang wants to be beat silly to release these casts. I've done the eraser thing to the cavities and cleaned it spic and span with the brake cleaner spray...it shines clean like a new silver dollar...but it wants to hang onto those casts like a dog with a new bone!

188214
I bought this mold used but it's in excellent shape. It's a big heavy hunk of aluminum and casts 2 ea. gas check and plain base.
Today was test run day and the keepers were only about 20% and that was a pretty loose standard as I don't think I'll use any of these due to micro wrinkles and such...they just are not perfect.

I ran the Pb pot from 650* through 750* and the mold ran from 385* to 490* on the hot plate...I just can't find the sweet spot yet...although that's not the worry as I can't understand why it wants to hang onto those cast like it does...there was a very narrow spot where they were falling out with minimal encouragement from the whacker...those were only a few.

Is the problem because it has such square lube grooves and drive bands?

188216
Anyone using this exact mold? Do you have any tips so I can learn to live with this one? (Leement it...possibly to soften the edges?)

188218
This is wheel weight Pb sweetened with 2% Pewter Sn. and the ingots were tested @ 16.6 BHN. It should be a great boolit metal.

[castalott]

Are the bullets round? Are the cavities offset in the mold? Have you tried waiting 2 or 3 x as long to cut the sprue and open? Have you cut the sprue and let the mold cool another 10 seconds before opening? ( Those last 2 sound crazy but sometimes that works. If the bullets can cool and shrink a little they sometimes will pop out.)

I'm not afraid to leement anything..... I use the nut and comet cleanser thing first...

Good Luck!

Dale

[GhostHawk]

Just looking at it I would say it is a combination of square noses and square lube grooves acting together.

I have 4 words of advice for you.

Liquid Wrench Dry Lubricant.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?274647-Tested-Liquid-Wrench-Dry-Lubricant

Go read for yourself. I bought the 4 oz liquid bottle and have enough for 2 lifetimes. 2 drops on a q-tip does a 6 cavity mold. Cavity's first, then I do the top of the sprue plate, then the rest of the mold.

I can not say with 100% certainly that this will cure all your problems.

But it sure made a difference on my problem molds. Worst was the Lee 7/8ths oz drive key slug mold. They hung on to that bottom plug with the slot in it like crazy.

Eventually I lightly stoned a radius onto the slot edges and LWDL does the rest.

[Dusty Bannister]

Have you tried to just tap the inside of the handle to help the mold blocks pop apart? Are the blocks tilting which would bind on the driving bands and that might make them stick worse. If the blocks are loose on the handles that could allow the blocks to tip or tilt when they should be parallel. Are those wrinkles or fractures on the sides of the driving bands?

[OS OK]

I have not tried to wait more time after cutting the sprue...good idea. This is a heavy chunk of Aluminum, it's acting differently than my 'minimalist' Lee's.

The most problematic cavity was hanging on both sides of the mold although it favored the one side the most.
I haven't looked at the roundness with a micrometer yet...I got frustrated and just shut down the shop for the afternoon.

Does the comet cleanser polish or leave micro scratches in the aluminum?

[OS OK]

Have you tried to just tap the inside of the handle to help the mold blocks pop apart? Are the blocks tilting which would bind on the driving bands and that might make them stick worse. If the blocks are loose on the handles that could allow the blocks to tip or tilt when they should be parallel. Are those wrinkles or fractures on the sides of the driving bands?

I shimmed the handles so the mold halves stay straight. It is a bear to open so I'm thinking it's the overall square design of the cavities.
I hate to use the whacker stick at all but that's a good suggestion about whacking it to open. I'll try that.

I know it can release them easily but that temp. band is very narrow and I went into and out of that band quick...prolly 4 drops went perfect then it went out of whack...requiring a big whack! or lots of whacks! I can't live with that.

[OS OK]

Just looking at it I would say it is a combination of square noses and square lube grooves acting together.

I have 4 words of advice for you.

Liquid Wrench Dry Lubricant.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?274647-Tested-Liquid-Wrench-Dry-Lubricant

Go read for yourself. I bought the 4 oz liquid bottle and have enough for 2 lifetimes. 2 drops on a q-tip does a 6 cavity mold. Cavity's first, then I do the top of the sprue plate, then the rest of the mold.

I can not say with 100% certainly that this will cure all your problems.

But it sure made a difference on my problem molds. Worst was the Lee 7/8ths oz drive key slug mold. They hung on to that bottom plug with the slot in it like crazy.

Eventually I lightly stoned a radius onto the slot edges and LWDL does the rest.

I'll pick up a bottle when I goto town next...thanks. I would like to use it in the cavities.

[runfiverun]

I would polish the cavity's first.
the square edges or too shallow of a draft angle can hang onto the boolits breaking those edges can help.
some of my most troublesome molds are some of my better shooting ones you just gotta smooze them and massage them a bit then find their happy spot.
generally a little frosting in the middle of the boolit is my indicator.

[OS OK]

Thanks...r5r...I like this design for the .30/30. I want to learn to live with it...I suppose this type of problem separates the men from the boys in the casting world. You either fix it and move on or screw it up trying to fix it.
Seems like I read that E. Keiths original SWC designs had generous deep and square grease grooves and Ideal (?) had to re-design that a bit for better mold release.
What do you polish with?

[castalott]

I never looked close to see if comet leaves scratches... But it does remove metal.. Who was that Australian guy that showed how to do this and make every cavity the same size? In a sticky, I think...

Just to make you laugh a little... some of the smooth sided molds you don't need to open...just turn upside down and the bullets slide out.... ( now come on...you smiled didn't you?)

[Baja_Traveler]

I have one mold that is a bugger sometimes. I found that if I turn the mold upside down and tap the handle bolt they fall out easier.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[nagantguy]

I'd be interested in taking that mold off your hands if it gets to a point where it makes casting not enjoyable! Looking for a new 30 mold and that looks like the boolit I sorta had in mind!

[wv109323]

I would look at the mold halves under magnification to see if there were any "burrs" at the parting line. I had a mold with the same problem. It was brass and the bullets kind of soldered themselves to the "burrs". I used a stone to remove them. One thing I noticed, it was the same cavities that were hard to release.

[OS OK]

castalot...yes I'm grinning.I'm going to re-read some posts on the Leementing procedure.

Baja...I turned it every way but loose...a couple of times that sprue plate came around and rested on my bare fingers...yeeeowiiie, I turned it back in a hurry!

wv109323...I worked it over with an eraser...no burs anywhere that I can see with a mag/glass.

Nagantguy...I think this boolit is made for the .30/30...I'm going to work this out...

[CHeatermk3]

Have you tried "smoking" the cavities with a butane lighter?

P.S. Those boolits in your pic. look pretty good to me. Also look like your melt could be hotter (I don't see any frosting).

The perfect is the enemy of the good...

When you open the mold. try waiting a bit longer than usual and when you do open, try using both hands, like you would with an old-fashioned manual hedge trimmer--the giant scissors kind.

[OS OK]

Have you tried "smoking" the cavities with a butane lighter?

P.S. Those boolits in your pic. look pretty good to me. Also look like your melt could be hotter (I don't see any frosting).

The perfect is the enemy of the good...

When you open the mold. try waiting a bit longer than usual and when you do open, try using both hands, like you would with an old-fashioned manual hedge trimmer--the giant scissors kind.

I was using both hands to open it, sorta prying against the handles with my thumbs.

I don't think smoke is going to help here, it's going to have to be Leemented...no getting around it.

[GhostHawk]

"I shimmed the handles so the mold halves stay straight."

I think this could be the problem.

Some molds may have to open more in the front to release.

I think if it was me I would put it back the way it was and try it.

[OS OK]

With the shims they open and close smooth and easy...it's when they have the Pb inside they don't want to open. Those drive bands are filled out perfectly because of the added 2% pewter Sn I added to the COWW's.

I've been reading the archived post on this mould release problem and one of the fellas said that his problem was solved by reducing that blend with a 50/50 blend of soft Pb. It reduces the ability of the Sn to fill so perfectly in the square drive and lube bands. Later this morning I'm going to do that and see the difference before I start fooling around with the polish.

[TexasGrunt]

I'll second smoking the mold with a butane lighter. It takes a few seconds and you'll lose nothing doing so.

[OS OK]

Have you fellas ever tried using a Q-Tip to rub the cavities with powdered graphite...or used spray graphite to aid release?

Oh yeah...how you feeling this morning Marine?

[skeet1]

I would guess that the mold is bored off center. What I am trying to say is that one side of your mold is holding the bullets because the cavity is offset more to one side that the other. If you have a way of measuring your cavities you will find that one side will have a deeper lateral depth than the other. I just ran into this with a Lee six cavity Harris mold. This mold was bored .010 to .015 deeper laterally on one side than the other and held all of the bullets in that side requiring "beating" on the hinge bolt to release them. Lee was very good about replacing the mold and the new one is perfect.

Ken

[Boolit_Head]

Before you get radical on the mold and do something that permanently changes is I'd talk a bit of small wooden dowel and rub the edges in case there are any burrs. Then I would smoke it, the layer of carbon will act like a non stick surface till the mold gets broken in well.

[TexasGrunt]

Have you fellas ever tried using a Q-Tip to rub the cavities with powdered graphite...or used spray graphite to aid release?

Oh yeah...how you feeling this morning Marine?

Dry graphite on a Q-tip might work.

I'm hurting this morning. Weather front coming through. Arthritis is flaring up. But I've got a couple of new to me molds that arrived yesterday so I'm going to go out later and pour some lead.

[HABCAN]

Any mold that starts to act up I just resmoke HEAVILY and that seems to cure its non-release tendencies. YMMV.

[runfiverun]

polishing is simple.
but you need to target where the problem lies.
it might be as simple as rolled edges on the cavity's, or a vent line might extend a bit into the cavity.
you can remove them with an X-acto blade.


a little whitening tooth paste and some comet rubbed onto a boolit and spun with a star head screw will do a nice polish.

[gwpercle]

All of those square bottomed lube grooves are woking to hold the boolit in place. here are some things to try.
Tap the handle hinge bolt with a mallet before you open. I hold one handle and tap on the hinge bolt , not real hard...light taps , until the mould seperates. Then open the mould with both hands . I find the tapping get the opening started , then it's not so hard to finish opening.
Treat the cavities....Liquid Wrench Dry Lube, apply with Q-Tip, my preferred treatment.
Smoke with a lighter or try the graphite. I bought a can of spray on graphite mould release , it seems to work at first but builds up and gets all cruddy. The dry lube is better.
I remember the Keith moulds getting changed because the square grooves made them difficult to get out the mould....seems like they still like to hang onto boolits.
Gary

[OS OK]

Thanks Gary for your comment, I will be incorporating the opening/taping method you describe...although I hate to use the whacker at all and am trying to get around it all together...?

Here's another little subtlety I hadn't noticed...this is the best picture I can get to show this anomaly. I've taken about 30 shots and deleted all but this one as it shows a dimple...an area about .001" deep, almost like a drill center, I'm guessing where the center of the nose is lower than the outer edge. I think this helps to lock these casts into the mold.

Imagine the mould open and that little bump in the mold forcing the cast to get over it...all the same time those square lube slots are keeping it from having any slack to rise above this bump on the nose of the mould...

I can put a straight edge over the nose of the cast and see daylight under the straight edge in the center of the nose...that has to help to lock this cast into the mould.


188278
I think I need to devise a method to remove this bump evenly while the mould halves are closed together...? But how? I have a Dremel and lots of little polishing tips.
Maybe a small white fiber barrel shape tip with some lapping compound on the bottom...?

[Boolit_Head]

Depending on how they cut the cavity that makes me think a bad cherry was used. but I can also think of a few ways they could cut it where that would not be the case. Hmmmm...

[runfiverun]

I would clamp the mold on the bench.
take a small flat grinder in the dremel and use one single pass on 1 cavity [both sides] and give it a run.
if it gets better, then maybe another pass, and do the other cavity's.

it seems to me that just opening the mold would be a tug and pop affair.

[Boolit_Head]

I would not get radical with it yet. Several of my molds have been sticky at first till they broke in.

[OS OK]

Good advise there Boolit...I'm going to start off simple with all the non-marring ideas, trimming edges with a stick, looking closely with a magnifier, applying powdered graphite...change the Pb blend to a little less Pewter Sn...alll that before going nutz on it.

I have high hopes for this design so I'm going to go easy...just a soon as I finish my ham sandwich.

[castalott]

The molds I have that don't want to open I lay the mold on the soft cloth and mostly release the handle. tap the handle pin gently and the mold usually pops open. Worth a try...

[Artful]

I'm going to suggest to heat the mold up and then try one cavity at a time and see if one is causing more problems then the others. That Dimple may just be from the center cooling and shrinkage is pulling it back in towards the center from the flat face.

[Bird]

Thanks Gary for your comment, I will be incorporating the opening/taping method you describe...although I hate to use the whacker at all and am trying to get around it all together...?

Here's another little subtlety I hadn't noticed...this is the best picture I can get to show this anomaly. I've taken about 30 shots and deleted all but this one as it shows a dimple...an area about .001" deep, almost like a drill center, I'm guessing where the center of the nose is lower than the outer edge. I think this helps to lock these casts into the mold.

Imagine the mould open and that little bump in the mold forcing the cast to get over it...all the same time those square lube slots are keeping it from having any slack to rise above this bump on the nose of the mould...

I can put a straight edge over the nose of the cast and see daylight under the straight edge in the center of the nose...that has to help to lock this cast into the mould.


188278
I think I need to devise a method to remove this bump evenly while the mould halves are closed together...? But how? I have a Dremel and lots of little polishing tips.
Maybe a small white fiber barrel shape tip with some lapping compound on the bottom...?

I would close the mold down on a wooden dowel, and spin it with a hand held drill. You can shape the end of the dowel with sand paper to the correct diameter for the nose of the bullet, then glue a piece of 400 or 600 grit paper to the tip.

[dkf]

Something I have found out with some of my MP molds is that deep fairly square grease grooves can be a pain to release and get complete fillout in the grooves. On my MP .380 mold I bored out the grease groove some so it is not as deep. In my experience you don't need massive grease grooves to get the job done. I'll agree that some lapping with fine lapping compound should make the bullets drop easier.

[TexasGrunt]

Good advise there Boolit...I'm going to start off simple with all the non-marring ideas, trimming edges with a stick, looking closely with a magnifier, applying powdered graphite...change the Pb blend to a little less Pewter Sn...alll that before going nutz on it.

I have high hopes for this design so I'm going to go easy...just a soon as I finish my ham sandwich.

Ohh... ham sandwich. Sounds good.

That mold is broken. Send it to me. I need a small anchor for the boat. :p

[Boolit_Head]

Dang it, now I want a ham sandwich! That does sound good!

[runfiverun]

now I want a tiny boat.

[quilbilly]

I'll second smoking the mold with a butane lighter. It takes a few seconds and you'll lose nothing doing so. I agree as well.

[castalott]

I just realized that you have the first mold with a built in hollow point! Wow!

[OS OK]

Thanks for all the comments and help fellas and I think lady too...the previous owner just PM'd me with some advice to find the sweet spot.

I've been off line all afternoon, some kind of net trouble I guess in Sacramento...maybe the dam let loose and my IP is under water?

Goodnight all...charlie

Will post again tomorrow PM after another go-round with this 'step child'!

[OS OK]

WaSalmonSlayer PM'd me with the inside dope on this mold, I got it from him. He said run the pot at 735*F. , Pour a generous sprue on a really hot preheated mould...I set the hot plat at 75%, dumped yesterdays Pb and added straight COWW to the pot...

188354
These once difficult casts started raining out of the mould...I still had to use the whacker...only a little differently. After giving the sprue an extra few seconds to set up well, I cut it and held the mould level and tapped it to encourage it to open and continued with light taps and the casts started falling. They seem to unhook from the bands and grooves better this way than hanging to one side where the heavy nose can cock the mold in the mould and hang itself up.

188355
I also honed the bottom of the sprue plate on a large piece of granite over some 400 grit paper to sharpen the cutters. Running the pot from 735 - 770*F. (kinda hard to maintain w/out a PID controller) the sprues cut smooth and flat, no smearing. After cleaning the mold with MEK and scrubbing in hot soapy water it sat in the oven at 170* for about 15 minutes to dry.
When I reassembled the hardware I used AntiSeize on all the threads and smeared a fine coat on the bottom of the sprue plate and the top of the mould. I used a Q-tip to coat the cavities with dry graphite.

188356
So...after all that I got some real nice casts...some were a bit frosted some not so...they were filled out perfectly and didn't show any micro creases in the noses and didn't have messed up drive bands...todays good casts prolly ran at 90%+ and I scrutinized them pretty hard, these will be the first to get a work-up in my Win-lever rifle so I want them to be the best casts I can use.

188357
The Plain bases are going next to PC and will first feed the .30/30 Win. and I'll see what they can do this spring...the GC bases will get a GC and whether I PC them or lube size all depends on the results of the former tests.
Well, this didn't turn out to be a Red-Headed Step Child Mould after all...instead it was a learning curve for the old man in the shop!

[castalott]

Are you going to hunt with that bullet? I would love to know how it works on game....

[OS OK]

Yes, eventually. I've a long ways to go before I know it will go down range straight and true.

[Walstr]

Ditto with cheatermk3 & texasgrunt: My first cast with Lee 6-cav .452 45LC mold was similar. I use pine sawdust for fluxing & the copious smoke does a great job on the mold. I dump sawdust & place open mold atop lead pot. That's also a good time for stretching dem bones from sitting.

RE: Frost appearance--My experience shows frosted appearance is achieved on the "cool" side of casting temperatures & a desirable surface for tumble lubing. "Pretty, shiny" silver looking boolits come from the warmer side of casting, in my experience. I too use AC_COWW+2% Pewter/tin. You'll get it, then YOU'LL be the only pard on the block who knows how to cast good boolits.

[Smk SHoe]

I have put Kroil on a qtip to season the cavities of a new mold. once cleaned then a light coat of kroil in the cavities, then use a dry q tip to get it all out. I heard the kroil soaks into the metal a little. all I know is it works for me
l
l

[TexasGrunt]

I've got some Kroil on order. I've been reading good things about it and I'd like to try it. Best price I could find was direct from Kano Labs.

[Boolit_Head]

You used to be able to pick Kroil up at better auto parts places.

[OS OK]

The dry graphite I use on lubing bottle-neck case necks before expansion...have been Q-tipping it into the cavities forever. A teeny-weenie bit goes a looong ways. When applied you can barley see it...only a shade darker looking shiny cavity compared to the one next to it. There's no removal and there is no buildup over time and I can't complain about the graphite other than it gets on your fingers and smears all over liken to anti-seize.
I quit using the smoke method because of the nasty looking face of the mold...I just don't want anything on the faces that would hold the mould open or plug the vent lines. But...I know it works just fine.

Thanks for all the suggestions...y'all...charlie