Casting went better this time

[jamesp81]

Taking advice from another thread asking for said advice I achieved some better results this time, but also encountered new issues.

I did did two things. First I preheated my molds longer. Second, I heavily fluxed the melt with sawdust, far more than I have been.

I think both both of these steps made a world of difference. I had practically no wrinkled bullets. My first cast out of my .358 mold was, in fact, too hot. 30 seconds for the sprue to harden, extra frosty when dropped.

I casted with my 2 cavity .358 mold for a while then switched to my .452 6 cavity mold, which emptied the pot in a hurry.

Upon measuring my boolits I found that many of my .452 boolits were out of round. I measured one that was .452 at it's narrowest and a whopping .460 at its widest. Naturally, this is the next problem I want to diagnose.

I observed the following about the out of round .452 boolits. 1) They are not undersized at any point, only oversized at some points. 2) A few boolits have finning. 3) A few more had more visible casting lines. 4) The boolits were most oversized 90 degrees from the casting lines.

I am looking at three culprits here. One is that I might have some tiny piece of crud on the face of the blocks or on one of the alignment pins, preventing closure of the mold. A second is heat. I noticed a gold sheen forming on my melt which I think is tin oxidizing, indicating too much heat. I reduced the tin back into the melt with gulf wax, but if heat was too high I wonder about heat warping the mold. Third culprit is technique. Maybe I need to squeeze the mold handles more firmly.

I will do a thorough cleaning of the mold blocks and alignment pins then re lube when I cast again.

My .358 boolits are showing some out of roundness as well but not as much. They run .358 to .360, though that could be measuring error...I'm using dial calipers.

As for my oval shaped boolits, can they be salvaged? Would putting them through the sizer make them concentric?

[runfiverun]

keep your thumb off the sprue cutter handle.

[bigolsmokebomb]

It could definitely be your mold not closing all the way or possible misalignment. I would clean your mold thoroughly and lube the alignment pins with some beeswax. After cleaning and lubing hold the mold closed up to the light and look into the cavities, if you see light coming through you've got issues.

[GhostHawk]

All of the above.

I do have a couple of molds which do not do as well if they get too warm. For those a small damp towel and 3 seconds of contact does the trick.

[jcren]

+1 for the sprue handle opening the mold a bit. Look for dots of splashed lead on the mold faces, look like little shiney spots. If it is lead spots, get the mold back up to temp and scrape them off with a wood stick ( I use bamboo kabob skewers)

[jamesp81]

It's definitely one of the alignment pins, the rear one I'm pretty sure. I knew something was up when I held the blocks together and they could ever so slightly rock back and forth against each other.

I held the mold closed with sprue plate open with a light behind it, and sure enough, I could see light coming through. I took the handles off and placed the front alignment pin in the rear receptacle on the other half of the block...no light passed through. I did the reverse, placing the rear alignment pin in the front receptacle of the other half of the block, and could see light coming through. There's my culprit.

I used a soft wooden dowel rod to push the rear pin back in some. This helped a good deal. If holding the mold with a normal grip, I can still seem some daylight coming through the blocks if I get the angle right, but it's far less than before. A firm squeeze cuts off all light.

My .452 2 cavity mold is experiencing some of the same issues with light pass through, though it's far less. You really have to get the angle correct to see any light coming through on the 2 cavity mold with a normal grip. With a firm grip, no light passes through.

Question then. How much light pass through is acceptable? Is any at all too much?

Of my three molds, only my .358 diameter mold has zero pass through of light with a normal grip.

[Walter Laich]

some of mine show a bit of light when cool but this disappears when heated.
also I believe these are new molds? If so they will wear in a bit with usage and this problem will go away

also remember the sizer will do a lot to round out the bullets and the barrel with do the same thing. It may or may not affect accuracy--try some and see

[Blackwater]

This place is THE best resource available for learning to cast really good bullets, but ultimately, the ONLY real way to learn is .... to just start casting. And we've all learned as we went along, and in particular, we learned how to tell what to do by the bullets we're casting at any given moment. You're progressing just like most of us did. I expect by this time next year, you're gonna' be a real "old pro" at it! Welcome to the club! You're gonna' make a real good fellow caster. Your attitude and inquisitiveness will aid you more than you presently realize. One thing we never quit doing, is asking questions, and wondering about any unusual things we notice, and experimenting. Experimenting is how we REALLY begin to learn, and become 'advanced' at this thing we do. You'll be there before you know it!

[Beau Cassidy]

There is certainly a learning curve to casting. If we knew where were you were I am sure someone would be willing to help you get going.

[bigolsmokebomb]

If you see just a tiny amount of light at only one angle you should be fine. I've got a mold that does that and when it gets hot it goes away. The best way is to just keep at it. It took me casting a a few different times and a bunch of research to get good boolits. Just make sure your molds are hot and keep a good rythim to keep the temp up.

[Cold Trigger Finger]

Yup, this is a great forum. With a little looking around its like an encyclopedia on bullet casting. I really appreciate all the q and a as when I have some of these same issues I will have an idea how to solve the problem. James; when you said you fluxed with more sawdust than before. How much sawdust is that ? We don't have any pine up here . But millions of acres of spruce. I wonder if spruce sawdust will work ?

[Phlier]

My first cast out of my .358 mold was, in fact, too hot. 30 seconds for the sprue to harden, extra frosty when dropped.

I would be concerned about this, especially since you're now having problems with boolits not being concentric.

I warped my first Lee six cavity mold, and the symptoms were exactly as you described; heated it up way too much, first cast took the sprue forever to solidify.

Take the mold blocks off the handles, and put them together with your hands. if the blocks don't fit together solidly, your mold is warped.

That mold now casts .358-.361. They are able to be sized down to a concentric .357 or .358, although if i size them down to .357 they end up having very little in the way of lube grooves left, especially on the part of the boolit that is .361.

I ended up just buying a replacement mold, although the boolits could be shot (and they shot well), I wanted perfect results.

Two things to be very careful about:

1. Don't get your mold too hot.

2. Don't unevenly heat your mold. If you're using an old style electric burner with the circular elements, put something on the top of it to act as a heat sink to spread the heat more evenly. A guy here suggested using an old circular saw blade, and that works very well. I bought a ten buck single hot plate from Walmart that doesn't have the old style element, and am able to put my molds directly on it.

[Strtspdlx]

put the bullets in question through a sizing die, that's the only way youll know if theyre usable.

[jamesp81]

I would be concerned about this, especially since you're now having problems with boolits not being concentric.

I warped my first Lee six cavity mold, and the symptoms were exactly as you described; heated it up way too much, first cast took the sprue forever to solidify.

Take the mold blocks off the handles, and put them together with your hands. if the blocks don't fit together solidly, your mold is warped.

That mold now casts .358-.361. They are able to be sized down to a concentric .357 or .358, although if i size them down to .357 they end up having very little in the way of lube grooves left, especially on the part of the boolit that is .361.

I ended up just buying a replacement mold, although the boolits could be shot (and they shot well), I wanted perfect results.

Two things to be very careful about:

1. Don't get your mold too hot.

2. Don't unevenly heat your mold. If you're using an old style electric burner with the circular elements, put something on the top of it to act as a heat sink to spread the heat more evenly. A guy here suggested using an old circular saw blade, and that works very well. I bought a ten buck single hot plate from Walmart that doesn't have the old style element, and am able to put my molds directly on it.

My 6 cavity 452 mold that is not dropping concentric never got that hot. My 358 mold that did get hot has no daylight showing through the blocks. It casts 358 - 359.

[jamesp81]

An update.

I sent the mold back back to Lee. They state it gauges within spec. I am going to try to lap it using the pour through a nut method and some valve grinding compound. If it doesn't go well, I'll cough up for a mold from Accurate molds.

[toallmy]

If you lap the mold take some time to figure out how to get the mold to close up nice before lapping , I'm afraid you will probably end up with a mold casting to the larger size all the way around . That's quite a bit of out of round .452 -.460

[toallmy]

Some more things to look at , how is it not closing , are the blocks bowed are twisted touching in the middle but not on the ends can you go into some detail it might help . I am a guy that usually says lap it to make it what you want , but that is only as a last resort , and generally on a under size mold . Your issue may be something else .

[Wayne Smith]

Also check the other side from the alignment pin. A tiny drop of lead in the hole will prevent it from closing. This is more likely than the pin being too long.

[ubetcha]

I have a mold that does show some light when closed ,but as stated, it will go away when warm. In my experence, If I let the mold get to hot or alloy get too hot, I will get finning.

[jamesp81]

Also check the other side from the alignment pin. A tiny drop of lead in the hole will prevent it from closing. This is more likely than the pin being too long.

No bits of lead that I can find.

Lee isn't interested in fixing it from what I can tell. I'm probably going to sell it with full disclosure of its issues and get something else. I *might* send it back to Lee one more time, this time with some bullets casted out of it, and see what they think. Maybe. I haven't decided yet. If I send it again I'm already into 25% of the cost of a new mold in terms of shipping.

[jamesp81]

I have a mold that does show some light when closed ,but as stated, it will go away when warm. In my experence, If I let the mold get to hot or alloy get too hot, I will get finning.

Light pass through does not change when this one is hot.

[jamesp81]

I am still considering the idea that my technique could be messing me up. Two things have occurred to me.

1) Sometimes once my sprue solidifies, I tilt my mold to get better light on the sprue so I can watch it "haze over", this being my cue to open the sprue plate. Any chance my tilting here is messing me up in the form of getting oblong bullets?

2) Is it possible that the bullets could be getting deformed when I drop them from the mold if they hit each other? The freshly dropped ones I'd imagine are still on the soft side.