Shot my first cast hand loads today

[jamesp81]

Lee 200gr 452 SWCs. Out of an STI 1911. I think this is a copy of the H&G 68 type boolit.

Worst. Leading. Ever.

It was like a leading apocalypse. Never had anything this awful with commercial hard cast boolits. Unfortunately I don't have the first clue what the cause is. The leading was evenly distributed the entire length of the barrel. I did have some issues with fill out when casting these because I could never get my mold and my alloy hot enough. That might have something to do with it.

Boolits were cast with straight wheel weight alloy and air cooled. Sized to .451". Before you say it, I have no choice but to size to .451. My 1911 will *not* chamber a cartridge with a .452" diameter bullet. When I was loading commercial cast boolits for it I had to use the Lee FCD, which basically just swaged the hard cast boolits down to .451 anyway (or maybe .4515, I never knew the exact diameter).

I lubed with 45/45/10 from White Label. I think I got this part right, the boolits dried and were not tacky and you couldn't really see the stuff on them.

What does it usually mean if the leading is distributing down the entire barrel? Does that indicate gas cutting from an undersize boolit? If it's an undersize boolit problem, the only thing I can do is load hotter and hope to obdurate the boolit better. I'm already loading pretty hot with Winchester 231, not max, but not far off of it either. Maybe I should use the Lee FCD instead of the size. It might leave me closer to 452 than 451...might make a difference too.

I'll check back here soon. Gotta go buy some chore boys...

[Shiloh]

.001 larger won't chamber?? From what you said, I would think the .451 make give occasional trouble as well??

Shiloh

[jamesp81]

.001 larger won't chamber?? From what you said, I would think the .451 make give occasional trouble as well??

Shiloh

I have 2 1911s and .452 will not chamber in either of them, period. .451 chambers in both without issue.

[Murphy]

jamesp81,

Just out of curiosity, have you mic'ed your loaded rounds on the case mouth? I have never used the LEE FCD. I have always used a taper crimp die in my auto's.

With a taper crimp die, .471 on the case mouth seems to be the magic number. Maybe this will help, maybe it won't, just putting it out there.

Murphy

[308Jeff]

Subscribing to learn...

[jamesp81]

jamesp81,

Just out of curiosity, have you mic'ed your loaded rounds on the case mouth? I have never used the LEE FCD. I have always used a taper crimp die in my auto's.

With a taper crimp die, .471 on the case mouth seems to be the magic number. Maybe this will help, maybe it won't, just putting it out there.

Murphy

I have some loaded rounds at home that have been thru an FCD. I'll check them in a bit. i would point out I've loaded hard cast commercial bullets sized to 451 (both from being staged in a Lee FCD and from buying cast boolits presized to 451) successfully without leading. So it can be done.

Back to the original question. Leading down the full length of the barrel. What is that a symptom of?

[427smith]

probably of no help but I put my Ballester-Molina barrels in my lathe and cut .002 out of the chambers. With no visible case bulge now they feed and shoot lyman 452460's sized to .452 fine. my guns are not very accurate but don't lead the barrels with a stiff load of Unique. most common cause of leading is undersized bullet. I had that problem in the early 70's back in the days when if it chambered and went bang it was perfect.

[Yodogsandman]

Think you'll find that the FCD sizes down your WW boolits more than commercial hard cast boolits
.

[Murphy]

jamesp81,

My first suspicion is the bullet is being sized down (way down)
by the FCD. My second is the lube. And of course, there is always the hardness in question of your boolit. I have fired many thousand .45's cast using the same alloy as you are using, and never had any problem with obturation. The majority of those were loaded using a rather mild load of 4.5 grains of Bullseye.

In regards to the barrel being leaded from one end to the other, I experienced this long ago. It was my first attempt at casting my own. A coworker had a mold w/handles (Lyman #358156), gas checks, a Lyman 45 and a LEE 10 Lb bottom pour pot I purchased. I fired it all up and after a few tries had some very nice looking boolits. I proceeded to load them to a medium velocity with Hercules 2400 (yes it was that long ago). 12 shots later and my S&W Model 13 looked like a smooth bore. Mind you, this was over 30 years ago and information wasn't out there today as is now (no internet). I passed my 'good deal' onto friend at a slight loss. He later asked me why I was sizing my boolits for a 9mm? Huh? Ummmmm, Murph, that sizing die in the Lyman 45 is for .355 Dia boolits. Sigh, live and learn.

Get back with us once you've mic'ed some of those loaded rounds.

Murphy

[Mk42gunner]

To me, leading the entire length of the barrel is a lube issue. Especially since you have shot .451" lead projectiles in the past.

I won't even try to count the number of ACWW Lyman 452460's I have sent downrange with W231, usually sized .452", but you have to go with what the gun will eat. For the last several years I have been using FWFL, but the .45 ACP isn't usually all that tough as far as lube requirements go.

Robert

[flyingmonkey35]

Grats on shooting your fist cast boolits.

Tip on cleaning out the lead. Buy a 100% copper brilo pad (chore boy) cut some off and wrap it around your copper brush. Go back and forth and you'll clean the lead out in no time.

As for leading slug the barrel.

And measure the grooves. .1k a inch larger then that and your perfect.

There are things you can do to fic your barrel for shooting lead as well.

Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk

[reddog81]

I had similar experiences in 9mm, 38, and 45. I decided to try powder coating and haven't looked back.

[jamesp81]

jamesp81,

My first suspicion is the bullet is being sized down (way down)
by the FCD. My second is the lube. And of course, there is always the hardness in question of your boolit. I have fired many thousand .45's cast using the same alloy as you are using, and never had any problem with obturation. The majority of those were loaded using a rather mild load of 4.5 grains of Bullseye.

In regards to the barrel being leaded from one end to the other, I experienced this long ago. It was my first attempt at casting my own. A coworker had a mold w/handles (Lyman #358156), gas checks, a Lyman 45 and a LEE 10 Lb bottom pour pot I purchased. I fired it all up and after a few tries had some very nice looking boolits. I proceeded to load them to a medium velocity with Hercules 2400 (yes it was that long ago). 12 shots later and my S&W Model 13 looked like a smooth bore. Mind you, this was over 30 years ago and information wasn't out there today as is now (no internet). I passed my 'good deal' onto friend at a slight loss. He later asked me why I was sizing my boolits for a 9mm? Huh? Ummmmm, Murph, that sizing die in the Lyman 45 is for .355 Dia boolits. Sigh, live and learn.

Get back with us once you've mic'ed some of those loaded rounds.

Murphy

I measured a round loaded with commercial cast. Case mouth is at 0.471.

I am out of cartridges loaded with my cast bullets. I'm also out of primers but my press is still setup, so I'll make a dummy and measure it.

I did take a .452 boolit and dropped it in the chamber. Interestingly enough, it seemed to fit ok. I am seriously wondering now if I used a seating die to apply a taper crimp if I couldn't use .452 boolits. I can make up some test dummies and see. My mold drops at .452 so I'll have to cast some more (I've already sized all my boolits) or use a leftover commercial boolit.

I just remembered something. Several of my boolits passed through the sizing die far too easily. A .451 sizing die. Very little force for some of them. I'm really starting to think my difficulties getting my mold and alloy hot enough are biting me here with way undersize boolits / incomplete fill out.

[runfiverun]

now your thinking.
generally going through your process with a caliper in your hand will point right at the culprit.

[Murphy]

I'm going to go with runfivefun's reply on this one. Undersized boolits are the only thing I've ever experienced that created leading to that degree. And, they can do it with very few rounds down the barrel.

I've owned 2-3 of the LEE 200 Gr SWC molds (still do) and never had an issue with them dropping undersized boolits. Cast faster your next casting session and see if that doesn't help with the incomplete mold fill out. Once you begin to get complete fill out, put the calipers on a few of them and I believe you will notice a difference.

LEE molds don't always cast their best the first session, so give a few more attempts. Good catch thinking back and noticing a few of your boolits seemed to size too easy.

Murphy

[jamesp81]

I'm going to go with runfivefun's reply on this one. Undersized boolits are the only thing I've ever experienced that created leading to that degree. And, they can do it with very few rounds down the barrel.

I've owned 2-3 of the LEE 200 Gr SWC molds (still do) and never had an issue with them dropping undersized boolits. Cast faster your next casting session and see if that doesn't help with the incomplete mold fill out. Once you begin to get complete fill out, put the calipers on a few of them and I believe you will notice a difference.

LEE molds don't always cast their best the first session, so give a few more attempts. Good catch thinking back and noticing a few of your boolits seemed to size too easy.

Murphy

I'm going to try to shoot them unsized this time. I have an extra seating doe I can use for taper crimping without the Lee FCD.

The great thing about casting is you mess up you just throw your mistakes back into pot.

I have a new Lee 20 pound ladle casting pot I'm going to try. I'm hoping the heating element can he the lead hotter than my Lyman. We will see.

[Bzcraig]

R5R is leading you in the right direction. Making a dummy round and trying the plunk test should always be the first step once you think you have all the variables dealt with. I can't tell you how many times I thought I did everything perfectly only to discover I had misread my mic, setup my powder scale wrong or held my tongue in the wrong corner of my mouth. Now some questions; have you slugged your barrel? Are you using a caliper or mic to check boolit diameter? What are you lubing your boolits with? How are you checking the temp of your alloy? How are you preheating your mold? Is the mold iron, aluminum or brass? I know it's a lot of questions but the more info we have the more we can help/suggest. Finally, welcome to the addiction!

[jamesp81]

R5R is leading you in the right direction. Making a dummy round and trying the plunk test should always be the first step once you think you have all the variables dealt with. I can't tell you how many times I thought I did everything perfectly only to discover I had misread my mic, setup my powder scale wrong or held my tongue in the wrong corner of my mouth. Now some questions; have you slugged your barrel? Are you using a caliper or mic to check boolit diameter? What are you lubing your boolits with? How are you checking the temp of your alloy? How are you preheating your mold? Is the mold iron, aluminum or brass? I know it's a lot of questions but the more info we have the more we can help/suggest. Finally, welcome to the addiction!

Used a commercial cast boolit and crimped differently, no Lee FCD. Passed the plunk test. Going to try to load my next batch unsized (they're dropping at .452 when things are working right). We will see what happens from there.

You're right about it being an addiction. Even moreso than reloading.

[bullseye67]

Good evening, Sorry about your unlucky start. How much flare are you putting on the case? Most new to cast reloaders have their dies set up for JACKETED bullets which require very little flare. I flare the case enough to get 1/8 inch of the boolit into the case. Measure the largest boolit you have made. Use it to load a dummy round, load it just like you have been doing. Pull the boolit and measure it, it should be very close to as cast. Mine largest is .4524 as cast. Loaded and pulled .4251 with no visible signs of lube being damaged. I ALWAYS use a LEE FCD. Good luck and happy shooting!

[shoot-n-lead]

jamesp81,

Just out of curiosity, have you mic'ed your loaded rounds on the case mouth? I have never used the LEE FCD. I have always used a taper crimp die in my auto's.

With a taper crimp die, .471 on the case mouth seems to be the magic number. Maybe this will help, maybe it won't, just putting it out there.

Murphy

The LEE FCD die for auto cartridges (45acp in this case)... IS a taper crimp die...and it is roll crimp die for revolver cartridges.

[wv109323]

Why would the .452 bullets not go into the chamber? Will a .451 boolit go into a fired round of brass? You don't mention brand of brass. R-P brass has a thinner wall so you should be able to to use a .452 bullet with that brass.
if you have more trouble post pictures and we can help.