Rossi 92 45colt

[Fly]

Ok you Rossi guys I need some help. I have a Rossi 92 in 45 colt. I have been loading my own cartridges.
I have three lee molds. One in 200 grain bullets I use for my black powder revolvers. One in 230 grain I shoot
in my dragoon. The last is a flat nose 255 grain bullet I also use in the Colt dragoon. I reloaded some brass with
all three using 8 grains of unique. I love this rifle but not really getting the best accuracy from it at 30 yards.


Can one of you help me out on a good starting point on load & bullet. It sure helps when some one points a
guy in the right direction.


Thanks Fly:?:

[runfiverun]

up the unique.
I have 2 loads with it I favor, 8.5 and 9.3 with 200 - 250's.
the lee 250 is similar to the lyman mold I use.

[nvbirdman]

OK, I'll start with the first question everyone is going to ask.
Did you slug the barrel?

[Bzcraig]

This 20 shot group was shot at 50yds with my 24" barrelled Rossi using Stevezguns peep sights. The part that sucks is it was shot with Freedom Munitions 255gr plated FP. I bought it primarily for the brass (Starline) not even thinking it would be a good shooting bullet. Now I've got to go down the same road as you but at least I know the rifle shoots!

[shoot-n-lead]

This 20 shot group was shot at 50yds with my 24" barrelled Rossi using Stevezguns peep sights. The part that sucks is it was shot with Freedom Munitions 255gr plated FP. I bought it primarily for the brass (Starlin's) not even thinking it would be a good shooting bullet. Now I've got to go down the same road as you but at least I know the rifle shoots!

Good shootin' and good shootin' rifle!

[runfiverun]

nope.
just stuck some 452 boolits in it and shot it.

[rondog]

Sounds like you need some reloading books with load recipes. I'd stick with the 255's too, the others are likely incompatible. A .45 ain't just a .45 ya know. .45acp/.45 Colt/.45-70/etc. are different diameter bullets AFAIK.

[Fernando]

Try partial resizing also - my 45 Hartford seems to like it a little more.
Has the typical generous Rossi chamber - But I have to use the brass in
just the Rossi as it will not fully chamber in my Bisley.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
You need to know your groove diameter and add at least .001 to your cast... especially if it is of the harder varieties.
Have a couple... they are not the same rifles. One likes .454 and the other likes .453.
But both like 255 grainers or heavier.
Best light load we use is a .455 or .456 round ball over 5 grains Unique. Good bunny basher out to 40 yards or so.
Mike in Peru

[huntrick64]

The Rossi chambers are all over the place. Mine in particular is really fat and bulges the cases all the way to the webbing. To help with brass life, I keep my Rossi brass separate from my other 45 Colt and just resize about 1/2" down (to grab the boolit) and just leave the rest bulged. I also anneal that top 1/2" since I am constantly working that. I have a bunch of 45 molds (Ideal/Lyman, Accurate, MP, Paul Jones, BACO, and yes even Lee. Probably the most accurate in my Rossi was the Lee 255 RF. This is the only gun I own where the Lee boolit shoots better than my custom molds. The mold really does suck and drops small boolits so I just powder coated them to get them up to about .454 which is where they shot lights out with HS-6.

My best 45 Colt powders for accuracy (in order with best on top) have been:

HS-6
Unique
2400
HP-38

My best overall performing boolit for killing stuff (not as accurate as Lee 255 but accurate enough) has been MP-270-SAA cast solid. It simply kills everything it hits.

[KCSO]

I use 454 bullets from an old Ideal mould in Starline cases with trail boss for smokless and Schutzen ffg for black and it will group under 4 inches at 100 yards albeit different poi with the teo different powders.

[MT Gianni]

The Rossi chambers are all over the place. Mine in particular is really fat and bulges the cases all the way to the webbing. To help with brass life, I keep my Rossi brass separate from my other 45 Colt and just resize about 1/2" down (to grab the boolit) and just leave the rest bulged. I also anneal that top 1/2" since I am constantly working that. I have a bunch of 45 molds (Ideal/Lyman, Accurate, MP, Paul Jones, BACO, and yes even Lee. Probably the most accurate in my Rossi was the Lee 255 RF. This is the only gun I own where the Lee boolit shoots better than my custom molds. The mold really does suck and drops small boolits so I just powder coated them to get them up to about .454 which is where they shot lights out with HS-6.

My best 45 Colt powders for accuracy (in order with best on top) have been:

HS-6
Unique
2400
HP-38

My best overall performing boolit for killing stuff (not as accurate as Lee 255 but accurate enough) has been MP-270-SAA cast solid. It simply kills everything it hits.

SAAMI specs show the 45 Colt as a tapered case, you cannot get there with carbide dies. Most compromise and for ease of loading have gone away from lubing and using steel dies w/out a carbide ring. As a reloader you need to decide if you want a case that fits the chamber or ease of loading.

[Harter66]

Good grief Fly why didn't you just ask me over there .....

If you're trying that 452-252 in it , don't .
Both of the 92's I loaded for were small bore/groove with generous chambers . Bbls at 444x450 but will cheerfully chamber a 457 bullet .

The 452-255 RF needs to be pretty soft . I run 50/50 WW-1/20 A/C but I W/Q for Ruger pressures . 8.5 with a CCI LPP in Win brass shoot 3" at 100 . Running on up to 9.5 tends to stay stable as far as groups go out to just past 80 yd . When they go super sonic the bullets go all over when they come back down through . I've seen it with 2 rifles , 4 bullets , 3 powders .

[curator]

My Rossi M92-.45Colt likes Lee .454-255RF boolits with 8.5 grains of Unique pushing them. For serious Hog-medicine, I use .454-280 LBT/LFN boolits with 10 grains of Unique. Accuracy is outstanding with the .454 diameter, less so with .452. Yup, my .45 Colt cases do bulge a bit, and I usually only 1/2 size brass to shoot in the Rossi. So far case life has been OK. I am not unhappy with case splitting after 10+ reloadings.

[Fly]

Man you guys are the best. I had to go to a funeral in Okie City today & have not slugged the barrel yet. Let me
do that to establish that part & I will post back. Is it not great to have you guys around to help a newbie & save
lots of powder & lead getting there.


Thanks to EVERYONE of you guys! Fly

[Buckshot]

http://www.fototime.com/7848272124A4E8F/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/95900A3C1D2F5E8/standard.jpg

I have this M92 Rossi 45 Colt rifle. It's actually quite a nice rifle and required only a bit of interior slicking up. As others, it has a rather generous chamber.


http://www.fototime.com/744223B96FDE8AF/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/D17E117B0ED6111/standard.jpg

It's twist is 30" and it's bore and groove slugs .445" x .450" so it's tight with grooves just over .002". However I've never had any leading issues with it. In using that Lee slug shown in the photo I size it to .456" and it groups reliably into 3" at 50 yards for 10 shots. I've fired slugs from 195gr 45 ACP cast SWC's up to that 340gr Lee. I'd always used a Lee carbide size die. I also have a Miroku M92 rifle in 45 Colt. It has a round 24" bbl and it has a dimensionally perfect bore of .443" x .451", but it has a 16" twist. Truth to tell, it isn't any more accurate then the Rossi.

I'd picked up a S&W M25-5 in 45 Colt and was never much impressed with it's accuracy. I asked a friend of mine (9.3x62Al) about it after letting him look the revolver over. The first thing he asked me was "What kind of size die do you use?" I told him and he said, "Ya know, the 45 Colt is NOT a straight case"?. Well I never thought of that. He said I needed to get a steel sizer so Midway happened to have Redding dies on sale. As an aside I'd forgotten that I also owned a set of RCBS steel dies already :-) In any event, the steel size dies produce a case (both the RCBS & Redding) with a slight bottle neck and a case body larger in OD then the carbide die. It made quite an improvement in the M25's accuracy but as of yet I haven't had a chance to try it in ammo for either M92 yet.

...................Buckshot

[Tackleberry41]

My Rossi 92 eats the same loads as go in my various 45 colts, just lucky on the bore I guess. I size .452 and it shoots great.

[pirkfan]

SAAMI specs show the 45 Colt as a tapered case, you cannot get there with carbide dies. Most compromise and for ease of loading have gone away from lubing and using steel dies w/out a carbide ring. As a reloader you need to decide if you want a case that fits the chamber or ease of loading.

I don't believe this is correct. Just looked up SAAMI specs for 45 colt, and it shows a case diameter of .480 and cylindrical. There is a slight taper to the rifle chamber, but not the cartridge, so steel dies won't be tapered either....I've been using carbide dies and they work great.

[45-70 Chevroner]

I don't believe this is correct. Just looked up SAAMI specs for 45 colt, and it shows a case diameter of .480 and cylindrical. There is a slight taper to the rifle chamber, but not the cartridge, so steel dies won't be tapered either....I've been using carbide dies and they work great.
pirkfan is correct, a 45 Colt is a straight case. Dies for it are straight walled no matter steel or carbide.

[Buckshot]

pirkfan is correct, a 45 Colt is a straight case. Dies for it are straight walled no matter steel or carbide.

..............I'll agree that that is what SAAMI shows. I'll also admit that carbide dies do in fact size the case down into a straight walled cylinder. Reduced from .480" but a cylinder in fact. As I mentioned, I had a set of steel RCBS dies on hand but also bought a new set of Redding steel dies for the cartridge. I took measurements at the time of a couple fired cases. The carbide dies recreated a cylindrical case, which then required an expander to accept a new slug. So you had a somewhat wasp waisted , or hourglass shape.

Both the steel dies produced a case with a vestigial shoulder. The RCBS die created a slightly longer 'Neck' above the shoulder then the Redding size die. The case mouth in this instance also needed an expander to accept the slug, but the point being that the body of the case was in fact, left of larger OD then those sized with the carbide die. I'll grant that case failures normally occur at the case mouth primarily due to expansion and then the re-sizing process. However over time I HAVE had some cases that cracked longitudinally from the mouth to better then halfway down the case.

I don't recall at this point the differences in case body ODs between those sized in carbide vs the steel dies. However there WAS a difference. The steel did did not produce a case with a straight taper to the mouth. What IS a fact however is that the steel die left a somewhat larger body OD and an identifiable reduction in OD from the body to the case mouth.

I'll have to see if I don't have some fired unprocessed 45 Colt cases, record measurements, then size in a carbide and steel die. Record measurements and take a couple photo's.


................Buckshot

[9.3X62AL]

My core point in this subject is that my RCBS tungsten-carbide sizing die GROSSLY undersized my 45 Colt brass--to .469" OD. I then use a .451" expander spud to accommodate .454" bullets, and the resulting loaded cases 1) looked like Coke bottles and 2) lasted about 5-6 firings before getting lengthwise fissures. Since I began using the steel RCBS sizer die, my brass is holding up a LOT better, and accuracy has improved--no more fliers. The tapered case produced by the sizer die works better. If the gunmakers are going to cut chambers with generous dimensioning--to include tapered chamber profiles--then we as ammo crafters need to hew to the poetry sent our way by the factories.

44 Magnum--a straight case in SAAMI cartridge and chamber specs--has similar complications when a RCBS T/C sizer gets used. Coke-bottle effect, again. No mas--I went to a steel sizer for this caliber as well, and no more Coke-bottling or over-working of brass.

Nicely enough--my 1979-made RCBS T/C 38/357 sizer die produces an on-spec .379" case diameter, and none of the Coke-bottling when bullets get seated.

[ukrifleman]

nope.
just stuck some 452 boolits in it and shot it.

Slug the bore and I bet you find your '92 needs .454 diameter bullets not .452.

ukrifleman

[rond]

The chamber on my Rossi is oversize, the fired cases are bulged at the rear. I only size half the case for the Rossi, they will not fit the Rugers.

[Harter66]

I use a universal decapping die and a gutted 45 ACP FCD for a sizer for my Colts and Raptor now because of the gross over sizing of all of the FL dies . With the internals out the FDC can be used for just a neck ,FL or a bulge buster . Anyway this is working out for me in the Rossi Colts and the Raptor .

[ncbearman]

nope.
just stuck some 452 boolits in it and shot it.


Do I detect a wee hint of sarcasm in our MODx2 voice?

[9.3X62AL]

An add-on to the steel-die info for 45 Colt......that die produces a case mouth diameter of .477", and near the base the sized brass is .479". Expand with the .451" or .452" spud, seat a .454" bullet, and the assembly measures .480". SAAMI spec.

Fired brass that used slightly-warmed loadings (250 grain-class bullets at 1000 FPS) are .483" at the case mouth and a "fat" .486". Not earth-shattering "taper", but it's there in fired brass--and as folks have described above, there are a variety of methods to go about brass management in this caliber. My method has greatly extended usable case life and gave a small uptick in accuracy. I should add that I own no 45 Colt rifles and have zero hands-on firing experience with them.

[Bzcraig]

Great thread since I'm on the front end of loading for 45 Colt in a Rossi. Here are the measurements I got for Starline brass.

New: Just above rim: 476 midline: 474 rim: 470
Fired: Just above rim: 479 midline: 479 rim: 475
Sized: Just above rim: 475 midline: 470 rim: 469 using Lee die

Please explain to me what a steel die does differently than a carbide die?

[lar45]

The Carbide die has a "Carbide" ring inserted into the die body almost at the base of the die. This is slightly smaller than the rest of the die. The case gets sized all the way through that ring so it is all the same size top to bottom. One note is that the carbide dies don't size all the way too the base. They stop just short of the base.
A steel die has the profile of the case cut into it. You lube your case and run it all the way in and your brass turns out to the size and shape of the die. I'm sure the brass will spring back just slightly, but you get the point.

[azrednek]

I've been shooting the apx 250 gr SAECO 945 with a gas check or the SAECO plain based #458 both sized to .452 backed by 10grs of HERCO in my Rossi for about 10 years and I'm totally satisfied with the shot to shot accuracy. Never slugged the bore. The 45 Colt loads were originally loaded for my Blackhawk. After printing nice clusters with the Rossi I never bothered.

I also shot various handloads loads using lighter 185-230 gr home castings and even some GI hardball slugs. My Rossi and me simply prefer the heavier slugs.

[Buckshot]

..............Okay to provide some graphics for this thread, I was forced to work overtime :-)

http://www.fototime.com/622F19D4F43BC5E/standard.jpg

These 3 cases are 'Winchester' headstamp, and were fired in my Rossi M92. It was the only unprocessed 45 Colt I had on hand. They hadn't been tumbled yet and all I did was to wipe them off with a paper towel. Each one was sized in a different die. One carbide unit and 2 steel size dies. One of 2016 make and the RCBS dated 1977. I trust you can see the vestigial 'shoulder' formed on the 2 cases used in the Redding & RCBS dies? The so called 'neck' formed with the Redding die is much shorter then that made by the RCBS die. Obviously the cases sized in the "Steel" dies is not worked as hard. I suppose that's why Redding came out with their dies using 2 separate carbide inserts in the same die?

................Buckshot