Alliant

[big bore 99]

I recently got my 2017 Alliant reloaders guide. For 45-70 the only powders they recommend are reloder 7 and reloder 10X.
Wonder what has changed?

[runfiverun]

maybe even Alliant can't get 2400.

[Shiloh]

;) ^^^^

SHiloh

[tdoor4570]

same thing in the 2016 book

[Beagle333]

You can find 2400 online if you search. It's not everywhere, but a few places have it.

[LAH]

maybe even Alliant can't get 2400.

Good one.

[dragon813gt]

You need all their manuals if you want data. I find their manuals since the start of this century to be really lacking.

[runfiverun]

pretty much since ATK took them over.
I spent like forever using/refining loads for Alliant powder and I'm starting to get a bit nervous about it being with us in the future.

[WHITETAIL]

+1, I just called Winchester powder co.
the other day. And asked what powder/
load to use in a shotgun shell of theirs
I was told sorry can't help???[smilie=b:

[WHITETAIL]

I believe they do that so you have to
buy more of reloading books.
A new powder here, a new powder
their. Opse sorry we discontinued
that powder????:takinWiz:

[rosewood]

I just finished working up some subsonic loads using Bullseye in the 45-70. NO way they listed that option. :)

It is a big business, they do not bother with testing every load option out there and probably have a bunch of newbies working there that is in charge of the load data now. I think most of what the list is for what would be considered "standard" loads that ammo manufactures put out. They probably stay away from the custom loads that we live for.

Rosewood

[dragon813gt]

I believe they do that so you have to
buy more of reloading books.
A new powder here, a new powder
their. Opse sorry we discontinued
that powder????:takinWiz:

That doesn't apply to Alliant since they don't charge for their reloading manual. Either in print or online download. You can sort of make the case for Hodgdon since they charge for their annual manual. But all of the info in it is available for free in their online reloading data center.

No one has to buy a reloading manual these days. The powder manufacturers have free data available online. It's when you get into bullet manufacturers that you have to pay for the data.

[rosewood]

No one has to buy a reloading manual these days. The powder manufacturers have free data available online. It's when you get into bullet manufacturers that you have to pay for the data.

This is something that never made sense to me. Powder companies give it away. Bullet companies charge. They are both required to reload. It is like buying a new phone and having to pay for the operation manual.

Rosewood

[rosewood]

That doesn't apply to Alliant since they don't charge for their reloading manual. Either in print or online download. You can sort of make the case for Hodgdon since they charge for their annual manual. But all of the info in it is available for free in their online reloading data center.

No one has to buy a reloading manual these days. The powder manufacturers have free data available online. It's when you get into bullet manufacturers that you have to pay for the data.

Hodgdon does have the free manual you can get at some stores, it is a "lite" version much like the Alliant one.

[JohnH]

I seriously doubt it has anything to do with anything other than 2400 is not a "speed" of powder appropriate to the 45-70. Although 2400 was originally advertised as a reduced velocity rifle powder, that was what, some 80-90 years ago? That was a time when very few powders existed, there actually was a demand among shooters for reduced velocity loads (people didn't have one gun for ground hogs, one gun for large game, yet another for target shooting. They had one gun, maybe two and those had to do everything. 5744 is a more appropriate speed and powder type (bulkier) than is 2400 and with the gun rags extolling the virtues of it for modern reduced load needs, 2400 is simply falling out of favor for the task. None of that means 2400 won't work. It has in past, it will in future, but the days of powder manufacturers listing loads for as many chamberings as a powder can be used in are gone. I have a paper Alliant Reloaders Guide I picked up at a gunshop in the 1990's. (Early 90-93 if IIRC) It lists 2400 loads for 22 Hornet, 221 Fireball, 25-20 Win., 30 Carbine, 30-06, 7.62x39, 308 Win., 375 Win., 38/55 Win., 44-40 Win., 444 Marlin, 45-70, 458 Win. Mag. Interesting what is not listed... 30-30 .... Really? 35 Remington... Really? The rifle powders they list; 2400, Reloder 7, Reloder 12, Reloder 15, Reloder 17 and Reloder 22. Reloder 25 has a small foot note of loads in the corner of a page. While we may do a lot of shooting, we do not represent the shooting community at large, not just as cast bullet shooters, but as reduced velocity shooters as well. For years, my Accurate #2 manual was the only other source of cast boolit data that I'd seen printed by a powder manufacturer. Lyman has been the go to resource for cast boolit data for years. Take a look at Lee. They have been making boolit molds for decades now yet the only published data I've ever seen for any of their molds is in the 4th Edition Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. The Spear #14 manual has data for RCBS boolits, but how long has that taken even though the two companies have a relationship that goes back into the 1960's. Today's focus in the powder manufacturing industry seems to be aimed at specially blending powders for specific cartridges. Look at Leverevolution, CCE 223. Also look at the broadness of the powder shelves. There is something in every speed niche with sometimes 5 or 6 powders overlapping in the same speed window. AA9, 2400, H110 come immediately to mind here. 4895, 4064, Varget, BL-C2, 748 inhabit the same window, certainly not interchangeable, but useful in the same cartridges for similar velocities. So Alliant isn't promoting 2400 for moderate to large rifle cases these days? I"m really not surprised. Staying alive in this market means providing for what's hot. We are dealing in a mature science, so making the chemistry fight fouling while providing higher velocity is cutting edge. And just what powder is going to do the best job in the 22 Nosler? Right now it's a wildcat but with the growth of the AR market and the demand for higher performance than the 5.56/223 in that platform we're going to see lots of changes in powders offered and old line availability. Consider that in the last 10 years cartridges offered for the AR platform have gone from one to nearly a dozen now. 2400 data for 45-70 has been available for more than 50 years. The 300 BlK has their attention at the moment

[runfiverun]

it might have their attention but the same old powders work in it just fine.
wanna guess what my 100gr go-to varmint load powder is in the 300?
yep 2400.[or it's Accurate clone]
I guess I could go with the other old reliable H-110, or even 4227, or AA-1680.
the new CFE black is just a hodgdon version of a slow blend of 1680.

they ain't bringing anything new to the table they are reformulating a newer [cleaner]version of someone else's powder to gain a larger market share.

my thinking on the 2400 is that it produces an undesirable waste product that's hard or expensive to deal with.

[LAH]

my thinking on the 2400 is that it produces an undesirable waste product that's hard or expensive to deal with.

Explain this, gotta know? In the manufacturing?

[Green Frog]

it might have their attention but the same old powders work in it just fine.
wanna guess what my 100gr go-to varmint load powder is in the 300?
yep 2400.[or it's Accurate clone]
I guess I could go with the other old reliable H-110, or even 4227, or AA-1680.
the new CFE black is just a hodgdon version of a slow blend of 1680.

they ain't bringing anything new to the table they are reformulating a newer [cleaner]version of someone else's powder to gain a larger market share.

my thinking on the 2400 is that it produces an undesirable waste product that's hard or expensive to deal with.

I may be showing my ignorance here, but I have to ask, what is the Accurate equivalent of 2400? I do like 4227 for larger, slower cartridges like 32-40 and 38-55, but I never thought of using it in the 300 BO... that is the 300 you're referring to, right?

Froggie

[trapper9260]

maybe even Alliant can't get 2400.I seen it in the store i was in last night.It was in stock.I did not needed any at this time so I did not bother.

[big bore 99]

Thanks for all the replies. I too have been reloading 45-70 light loads with Unique for many years. Always gave great results.