Hornady edl-x bullets?

[nagantguy]

I know it's a jword and this isn't the hunting with CB's thread but I wasn't sure where this fit! Question now that my favorite jword bullet of all time can't be found and the reason is some where between limited production and discontinueation I'm in the new market for a jword hunting projectile, not just for me but for dad, brother and buddy as well, the combined technologies Winchester/Nosler 308 dia 168 grain ballistic sliver tips was the best preforming bullet in several 30 cal rifles including my favorite 06 which I've only missed one game animal with since 2000! Anyhow they have fallen from the face of the earth so the new Hornady eld-x 308 178 grain pill has caught my eye, read all I can about it, seems like a projectile capable of incredible accuracy, anyone here have experience with it making meat? I'm looking to replace a great bullet that was capable of 7/8s of an inch 5 shot groups at 100 and 1.7 inch groups at 200 and dropped game animals from yotes to large northern whitetails in there tracks!

[BK7saum]

I have used Hornady bullets for years and think that the ELD-X bullet should be a fine bullet for your intended purpose. I used the A-MAX in .243 (105 grain) and 7mm (162 grain) for hunting loads and they have performed flawlessly for me. The A-MAX was originally marketed as a medium game / target bullet, but when the SST came out, they changed the manual and listed it as a strictly target bullet. The hornady bullets have always shot well for me and when compared to same weights with Nosler, the hornady shot better for me in those two rifles.

So, I have no personal experience with the .308 178 gr ELD-X bullet yet. I say go for it. I don't think you will be disappointed.

[runfiverun]

I have got to the point where I judge other bullets by the Hornady interlock.
within a 2750-2900 fps MV window your gonna have a real tough time beating their terminal performance.
after 2900-3,000 fps then a tougher bullet is definitely warranted.

[nagantguy]

Funny you should mention a fps threshold, have found with this type of bullet and the sliver tip inparticlar 2782 seems to be the top end of the sweet spot, in 06 and just a shade below in 308, can push them faster but groups open up, and while some maintain that speed kills a slower hit in the pump house beats a fast miss every single time with no exceptions! Don't ya just hate it when they discontinue something that you love? I mad at my self for not folllwing my own advice and buying a life time supply times 2 when I found something that works! Guess 500 wasn't a life time supply with something this easy to shoot well!

[Blackwater]

If you liked the Ballistic Silvertips, why not just go to the Nosler Ballistic Tips? The only difference between them and the BST's is the coating. If you've been doing well with the BST's, the uncoated BT's should do the same job. You'll probably need to clean out the moly lube out of your bore, and I believe simple mineral spirits applied until the patches come out clean, should do that for you. Then, just load up like you've been doing. The uncoated bullets may give you the same velocity with a slightly reduced powder charge. The moly coating tends to reduce friction in the bore, and thus pressure, and sometimes need a tad more powder to give the same velocity as uncoated bullets.

That would be my go-to solution, anyway.

[deep creek]

shot a muley buck and a cow elk with ballistic tips 140 gr in 7mm/o8 vel 2800-2850 buck at 324 cow at 130 bullet totally blew up couldn't even find anything but one tip. will never use this on big game.i did have to shoot them twice

[nagantguy]

If you liked the Ballistic Silvertips, why not just go to the Nosler Ballistic Tips? The only difference between them and the BST's is the coating. If you've been doing well with the BST's, the uncoated BT's should do the same job. You'll probably need to clean out the moly lube out of your bore, and I believe simple mineral spirits applied until the patches come out clean, should do that for you. Then, just load up like you've been doing. The uncoated bullets may give you the same velocity with a slightly reduced powder charge. The moly coating tends to reduce friction in the bore, and thus pressure, and sometimes need a tad more powder to give the same velocity as uncoated bullets.

That would be my go-to solution, anyway. leaning toward just what you've outlined, in many ways this isn't a real crisis but an annoyance, fact is l love the bullet ,the job it's done for me and how cool it looks all black and silver in the shiny nickel cases, mad at myself for not buying more than 500 when I had the chance!

[leadman]

I have been using The 140gr and 150gr Ballistic Tips in my Rem 7mm Magnum. Only shot one elk twice, but was not really needed. The about 15 or so elk all went down with the first shot. At almost 3,300 fps they leave a hole on the off side large enough to put my fist in. Same on antelope. The newer Nosler Accubonds are basically the same bullet but with a bonded core. Haven't shot any game with them yet.
I have been shooting the ELD in my Ruger 6.5 Creedmoor and get better accuracy with the Sierras. I weighed some ELDs and they had about a 2 grain variance. I did some 1/2" 100 yard groups with them but got more over 1".

[runfiverun]

the old ballistic tips were a very fragile bullet much like the A-max is.
I don't have a lot of faith in anything with a tip penetrating well.
except the Barnes TTSX it needed the initiator.
and bonding... well,,,,, it has nothing to do with how a bullet works it just sticks the core to the jacket.
that might help with separation some but it doesn't help with smearing and break up.

if you break down the terminal performance you like to see in a game animal and gear your search towards finding bullets that do those things [inside your velocity window] your gonna have better results.
the trick is finding one that shoots well enough to give you the confidence you need in the field.

[nagantguy]

R5R I agree with everything you said; it's the only non varmit bullet I use with a tip of polymer, I don't think it was /is the same bullet as the bowler Ballistic tip, from 8 yards directly blow me to 200 yards of always made an exit hole, it don't take cutting edge modern science to kill a whitetail but like you said it's an essential element to have confidence in your bullets accuracy in your rifle

[Blackwater]

This has been a controversial subject since good, effective, quickly expanding bullets were first put forth. I believe all the dissension boils down to two things: 1. Bullet placement and 2. Size of game.

FWIW, I'd never go against something like moose, bear or elk with a BT under @ 225 gr. I believe my .35 Whelen AI would be good elk medicine, but I don't (or haven't yet) shoot unless I know pretty darn well WHERE on the target my bullet will likely hit. That's a big factor, and not every one in every type of hunting has that liberty. If you stalk, you will often likely have to shoot at a running deer, and there, you want two holes, as large as possible, because none of us ALWAYS hits them right when running. The big holes on both sides help leak blood so we can follow them up if necessary.

But for a standing deer, broadside or nearly so, that we can take a calm, well-aimed shot with ..... now THAT is fodder for the quick expanding bullets. Jack O'Connor touted the 130 gr. Silvertips in the .270 for deer, and other similarly quick expanding bullets in other calibers. And indeed, they DID work very well on deer for most folks. He even shot a number of elk and I believe a few bears with this load. In my experience on our smallish southern whitetails, it almost always exited, leaving a good sized hole at the exit side.

Others like what they term the "controlled expansion" type, which de-coded usually means something like "I want to see entrance AND exit wounds, no matter what the angle." I have no problem with that, and it actually makes great sense when you're stalking. Deer DO tend to go at least a bit further when hit with these type bullets, and probably particularly our smallish southern whitetails, that don't provide a whole lot of resistance to expand a tough bullet, particularly if you wait (and CAN wait) for broadside shots.

So basically, the logic of it seems to indicate that the bullet you use really needs to be based on what type of hunting you do and how large the game you expect to shoot. Where big animals you MAY have to defend yourself against are present, such as deer hunting in grizzly country, it's best to "load for bear" and shoot your deer with that load, and do a little extra tracking if needs be. That seems to be simple common sense, since griz have been known to surprise folks at times. No time to reload with more appropriate ammo.

So bullet choice CAN depend on many factors. Here, and for any deer hunting where I am pretty sure to have a shot at a still, undisturbed animal, and the game is "thin skinned" like deer, I'll always love the BT's and any other quick expanding bullet. But I'm NOT wedded to that! I once hunted a really large deer and did a good bit of stalking trying to get him. Hunted that deer for 3 years, to the exclusion of all others, and kept track of him (by his tracks) all summer as well. Never got him, but in the '06 I was using at the time, I went to the 165 gr. bullet rather than the 150's. If I were hunting large mule deer, I'd probably do the same there.

Bullet selection IS a key factor in our success. Guys around here who use the 180 gr. .30 cal. bullets or even a 220, consistently complain here about the '06 not being "enough to kill a deer," even when they place their shots fairly decently. Then they buy .300 mags. that they can't shoot as well, and .... you know what happens then. Some wind up with .243's and find happiness with that caliber, mostly, I think, because they finally learn to place their shots better with a rifle they're not afraid of. So many factors, so much varying game in size and build, and so many bullets. Each bullet has a purpose, and a velocity range in which they tend to perform most reliably.

I'd NEVER load 150 BT's in a .300 mag.! Penetration is THE most crucial element in any game bullet. When penetration is sufficient, then expansion is an added element that can result in quicker, cleaner DRT kills, which is everyone's goal, or at least ought to be. Some judgment and rationale needs to guide our bullet selection, and NOT just "what's popular." Madison Ave. advertisers can sell ice boxes to Eskimos, so .... don't pay much attention to what you read that you know going in is contrived and self-serving. Use some judgment for your type of hunting and the game you pursue, or that might present itself. That's the wisest way to pick a bullet, IMHO.

[nagantguy]

What he said ������! Agreed mostly BW, accubonds and grand slams are in the pipe when elk and bear and moose are on the menu!

[runfiverun]

where I run into issues is I can have just about any shot presented.
and at distances from 15' to well over 300 yds.
here is a break down of our last 6 deer [not counting the nephews 2 does]

1. 330yds slightly up hill on an open ridge. nearly broadside [feeding]
2. 15' on the other side of a creek, facing 3/4 away [moving through willows]
3. 85yds up a very,very steep hill, quartering in slighty [head down feeding]
4. nearly the same shot as NO-3, but he was behind some buck brush [shoulder exposed, and some chest through an opening] and right before dark.
5. down hill shot at 60 yds, quartering away. [once again right before dark]
6. 225 yds up on a ridge at about a 30* angle from the rifle, deer was caught out in the snow walking [almost a broad side shot]
these deer weighed from 200 to over 300lbs, and all of them were within 25yds of thick cover.

so do you go for the lighter constructed bullets or the penetration.
I take penetration, and consider anything less than 2 holes a failure.

[nagantguy]

Yes in my world penetration often trumps expansion, except of course when it doesn't ! I keep track of deer harvest as well, I like to hit home as in shoulder, two reasons to anchor and to break down means of locomotion if it's not dead right there, around home the hunting land is boarded by a nasty swamp full of Autumn olive with 5 inch thorns and quick sand and black muck and choke cherry covered in poison ivy and past that a tree farm that while the owners are nice enough you'd need a pack of hounds to find a bedded and dead deer in their as they are fanatic pheasants forever people and train rabbit dogs so hedge rows and brush and over grown pasture! Up north on the hunting land thousands and thousands and thousands of acres of public lands surround our little paradise and the hunting is good but in that public land is other hunters some of whom will steal a deer and a stand and anything else they can carry, and along the rapid river is some cedar swamps that are every bit as nasty and wet and thick and full of pit falls as any South American jungle I've spent time in, ask me how easy it is to fall get hurt, get wet and get lost! Not necessarily in that order! Like I said in an earlier post here, from almost muzzle contact i.e. 8 or so yards to far on running yotes I'd found a bullet I liked, my rifle loved it did what I asked of it, went where pointed, broke bone, disrupted soft tissue, pulped blood and oxygen moving organs created traumatic wound cavities and always exited! I hen I said bigger northern deer, I meant it, it's not uncommon for does to go at or over 200, dad has a huge non typical broken 9 point that went 260 live weight, on the small end in 2011 I mercy killed a yearling with a badly damaged /shot hind leg weight less than my German shepherd at the time, head shot close range 308 cal entry, quater sized roughly exit! Everyone says including manufacturer that the nosler ballistic tip is the same bullet just not coated, maybe maybe not but my 06s don't shoot them as well and don't seem to hold together as well at close impact shots; best friends son, my God son, late in the season this year, neck shot smallish doe in the neck right at dark 40 yards give or take, nosler ballistic tip, 165, looked like a small grenade went off massive wound, dead is dead not saying the bullet failed but is obviously came apart dramatically at that speed/range after hitting spine, not what I consider heavy bone

[runfiverun]

I would probably switch over to the accubond.
it is a bit tougher jacket.