Hollow points in the wind

[sutherpride59]

So I was shooting with my 200grn hollow points cast from the Mihec 225 grn mold over 5.5grns of W231. Well I was shooting at 50yards and the wind was coming straight from my right side blowing across the range. The wind was a constant 15mph and gust of 20mph. My groups were far from great with the wind blowing me around. Well the wind settles and my groups got much better. They went from 6" stringing groups stringing from left to right to a 3 1/2" group centered on the target with no stringing.

i know most of it was just the wind physically blowing me but I wonder if at 50yards the wind may have been strong enough to push the rounds a bit too. IM NOT BLAMING THE WIND FOR BAD SHOTS!!! I am curious if that may have been a factor in the horizontal stringing. Like I said the shots were almost all left of center till the wind died down. My guess is the wind was blowing me around more than the rounds themself and let me tell you it was blowing, a fella tried to move his target closer and the whole wooden target stand flew out of his hands.

[OS OK]

Shooting in the constant wind, stiffening your frame and engaging muscle groups that normally are calm, trying to be steady, anticipating and bucking the gusts...determined to see and get the sight picture right, not jerk the trigger when you are 'on'...yet keep adding more and more pressure until it fires and surprises you when the sight picture is perfect . . . it's a wonder that you did as well as you have.

Look at it this way...if it was a perp...you nailed him! So . . . it musta been a pretty good day, huh?

[sutherpride59]

Lol sounds like you've been there too apparently, you just described every shot of the day �� my groups were better than I thought they would be for sure but I can't wait to get back out there on the 50 on a much calmer day.

[runfiverun]

I have had much faster jacketed round pushed off by the wind about 2" at 100 yds.
oddly my slower cast loads were pushed off just a tick more.
it's still possible to shoot good groups in the wind you just have to be pulling the trigger under the same wind conditions each time.

I used to have some pictures I would put up of one of my groups and one of little girls under the same conditions with the same rifle and same lot of ammo.
my group was a tight little round cluster and hers was strung sideways across almost the full 1" grid.
and another set of groups on another day with the wind a more calm 5-7 mph.
mine was nearly the same size and her group was a torn hole in the paper, which her first one would have been if she would have paid better attention to the wind gusts.

[sutherpride59]

That's what I thought runfiverun, I figuered I was getting pushed around causing the stringing and not so much the boolit. I figuered I'd ask cuz you read plenty of articles about shoooting little rifle boolits in the wind and the effect but I've never seen anything about slow fat hollow points in the wind at distance

[pka45]

Sounds like good shooting for the conditions! I think the slow velocity matters (more time being pushed by the wind), and the large bullet profile (more for the wind to push on), but I doubt the hollow-point makes any difference on the effects of wind...

[buckshotshoey]

Calculate the wind in feet per second, then Factor in the bullet flight time and velocity. You will see how little effect the wind is at 50 yards.

Try shooting Camp Perry at 600 yards in that cross wind and then you are looking at big numbers. As for hollow point bullets, you will find they will not increase the wind drift or bullet drop. Very negligible if any as compared to a soft point. A hollow point at supersonic speeds forms a mach come over the top and reduces drag. The bullet "wake" has more effect on drag then a hollow point tip does.

[fecmech]

You didn't say but I'm guessing you are shooting pistol bullets. If that is the case most pistol bullets have a ballistic coefficient of a brick:kidding: and are very much affected by the wind. If you think of most pistol bullets as .22 rimfire in regards to wind deflection you won't be far wrong. Plug a pistol bullet BC into a ballistic computer and add a cross wind, it can be an eye opener!

[buckshotshoey]

I didn't consider he was talking about a pistol bullet. But the hollow point of a .357 going supersonic as compared to a .357 flat, won't make much difference.

[Digital Dan]

Suspecting there be some misunderstanding about the dynamics at play related to wind drift. Let's start with a couple or three basics. It isn't drift, it is a deflection. It has everything to do with ballistic coefficient, and time of flight is relevant only to the degree that relative wind varies in significant t portion.

I won't get into the fine points on the I-Phone, but suggest a google search for Brian Litz might be educational.

[OS OK]

The wind and especially the gusts, had more effect on the shooters ability and state of mind, in the wind he is not standing there going through a calm, well rehearsed mental sequence of sending the perfect round each time...he is doing mental backflips trying to send each round while some invisible Murphy is pushing everything out of whack when he least expected...the wind had more leverage on the shooter than it did on the projectiles at this distance.

[popper]

20mph 90deg.wind on a 220gr. BC .2 @ 900 fps. 1" horiz. & 2.3" drop @ 50. It's the wind blowing on YOU. IMHO it doesn't make any difference which way the wind is blowing, you are a big 'sail'.

[runfiverun]

you can see the effects up close and personal on the shotgun range.
pull up on a moving target and then get swung off to the side so you fight back into it then suddenly jerk clear off to the other side.

[buckshotshoey]

you can see the effects up close and personal on the shotgun range.
pull up on a moving target and then get swung off to the side so you fight back into it then suddenly jerk clear off to the other side.

Sounds like you just described my love life! Lol

[OS OK]

That was a 'good-un' buckshot...very subtle but effective on my dirty little mind!... :bigsmyl2:

[Blackwater]

OS OK and Run5 give excellent advice. You didn't say what kind of bench you were shooting off of, but unless it was dead solid, wind will use any surface it has to push against it, and wind CAN move a less than solid bench more than it looks like should be possible. And as noted, it'll blow US too! Keeping as low as possible, feet spread a little further apart to help steady up, and chest on the front of the bench to further steady the upper body, and good bags, set solidly, and you've got as good a setup as you can get. After that, it's just a matter of aligning the sights, and waiting for a lull in the wind, or the exact same steady wind to pull the trigger. A momentary check and recorrection of the crosshairs to make sure they're dead solid perfect, and your groups should be as small as your gun can manage, or very close to it.

It's kind'a a zen-like process, where you balance a number of variables at once, concentrating on each in its logical turn, and culminating with breaking the shot. But it's learnable, and it really doesn't take that long to learn it. Then, the refining part starts, and you begin carving your groups by miniscule amounts. But it all helps, and pays off in some occasionally big ways.

Mostly, it just requires a mindset, and some quiet and calm determination. The rest is just doing it and paying attention enough to notice the "little things" that most discount. It's those "little things" that make all the difference, and only really diligent seeking will find them, and enable us to utilize them, and become the best shots we're capable of being. And it helps to shoot with someone who shoots better than you do. Most of them are generous in their help. But none if it helps without a good bit of shooting, and the good part is, the better you get, the more interesting it all gets. Life's full of rewards, if we'll only seek them.

[OS OK]

Oooops!...You can disregard what I said...I thought for some reason he was standing shooting 2 handed freestyle at 25 yards. I was impressed by the group size vs conditions...I seldom shoot a pistol off the bags unless I'm testing a new unproven load or new cast. Since my handloading friends here don't hunt with a pistol all our pistol work is freehanded meant for self defense practice, 7 to 25 yards. I'm the dummy this time...I just re-read the post more carefully!
That's what I get for assuming...

[sutherpride59]

Sorry I should have been more detailed. I was shooting 45acp at 50yards off hand. My groups are a rough estimate based off the 1" squares off the target. I lost 5 out my 6 targets with a good gust halfway through my outing so I didn't get to take a ruler to them.

I believe y'all are right I was probably being blown more than the boolit was but I figuered it was an interesting question worth asking. I thought about shooting off bags but I had already shooted all my boolits when I had the idea :D so I didn't get to try it out.

[OS OK]

At 50 yards in those conditions...that ain't nothin to sneeze at...freestyle...are you kidding? If we ever get into a shootout let's make sure were on the same side...preferably the same foxhole!

[sutherpride59]

Lol well don't be too impressed those were my best 5 shot groups and I have a sneaky feeling that those 50 yard stands may have been a little closer than 50 yards.

[Tom Myers]

It wasn't all your fault.
Wind drift is a predictable factor.

Images are from the soon to be released up-grade to the Precision Ballistics Software. (http://www.tmtpages.com/basbal/bal.htm)

Click on the images to enlarge

[OS OK]

Pretty danged impressive ballistics program...where didya go to university to learn that package? . :bigsmyl2: .
I was just pullin a number out of my butt...but...I thought it would be 2" or so at 50 yds. and since that was a guesstimate, I really had no guess atol` at 100.

[sutherpride59]

I ant see what it says all that well but it looks like 1" and some change at 36yards?