annealing for reloading

[Oklahoma Rebel]

I have shot my 7.62X39 brass 2 times, is it time to anneal the necks, and any tips to isolate the heat to keep the lower part of the case cool?? thanks, Travis

[country gent]

You can stand the cases up in a cake pan of water About half way up the cases. Heat with propane torch to light straw/blue color change and tip over to cool quickly. A socket that fits the cases ( 7/16 should do that for 7.62 x 39 cases but you might need a spacer in the bottom) and set tourch upright. spin case with a extension in the flame with the inner blue tip just touching the case to the color change and dump in a pan of water, also dip the holder each time to limit heat build up in it.
You can anneal as you think is needed, I would probably anneal new or once fired and then every 5-6 loadings. 7.62X39 is readily available so its a personal decision as to anneal or not. I have some BPCR brass that gets annealed every 2nd loading.

[bigolsmokebomb]

I have no experience with reloading 762x39 but with my 5.56 I've reloaded it half a dozen times or more without annealing.

[Norske]

Hold the case near the middle, hold the neck/shoulder to a candle flame until it's uncomfortable, then drop into water. The candle is hot enough, but not too hot for the brass.

[Shiloh]

I do the '06's from time to time. Gonna do the 8x57 after the next firing.

Shiloh.

[LeadPoisonTX]

Travis - the most important part of annealing is to not over heat the cases which ruins them. John Haviland wrote a good article on this subject in Handloader #265 (August 2010). I use this method: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FClA2atq7XM
To say that it is "quick" doesn't begin to give it justice. I ruined a few cases by leaving them on the flame too long (4-5 seconds). I suggest you pick a few "practice" cases (range pickups of something you don't reload), so you get the feel of it. Tempilaq also helps, but make sure to pick the correct temperature. I'm using 15/32 socket to hold my 30-06 family cases with my drill (picked them up from pawn shop for cheap). I do not drop them in water, just on a towel with a fan blowing on them. I'm building a solid stand for my torch so it doesn't get knocked around. Wishing you great results!

[dhenry132]

So, what color should the brass turn for correct annealing?

[blackthorn]

Annealing case necks in Lead
Annealing case necks by dipping them into molten lead that is held at about seven hundred degrees ‘F’ works well. Wheel weight alloy, which is approximately eighty nine parts lead, one part tin and ten parts antimony, melts at six hundred and nineteen degrees ‘F’ so you can safely set your lead alloy temperature at seven hundred degrees ‘F’. The use of a thermometer will take any guesswork out of the process. The reason for using lead for annealing is to keep the temperature low enough for proper uniform annealing, and that is simply not possible using the torch method. With a torch the case is often heated on one side more than the other, temperatures are not readily repeatable from case to case, and in falling over into the water, one side is quenched before the other.

To minimize the likelihood of lead ‘soldering’ itself to the brass case it is best to use as close to pure lead as possible (although any lead alloy will work). Anneal your cases with the fired primers left in, as that forms an airlock that keeps lead away from the inside of the case. With respect to annealing cases using molten lead, basically you: set the thermostat on your pot at seven hundred to eight hundred degrees ‘F’ pick up each case by the head and dip the neck of the cases about a quarter-inch into some powdered graphite or light oil (vegetable oil is fine). The oil keeps lead from sticking to the brass but, any lead that does stick is easily removed by a quick twist in steel wool while the case is still hot. Shake off any excess oil, dip the neck, shoulder, and about a quarter-inch of the case body into the molten lead and just as you begin to feel an uncomfortable degree of heat in your fingertips, drop the case into water. If you hold the cases in some other way than with your bare fingers, leave them in the molten lead from eight to twelve, but not more than fifteen seconds. When the case is hot enough that the lead does not cling to it, it is annealed. Pull the case up out of the lead, tap on the side of the case to remove any bits of lead (if the lead is really sticking, the case isn't annealed!), then drop it mouth down (straight) into a container that is mostly full of ice water. Following the anneal, it would be wise to closely inspect the inside of the case both visually and with a bent paper clip just to make sure there are no lead drippings adhering to the inside the case.

If you are left-handed, have the cases on the right side, the lead in the middle, and the ice water on the left. The cases go only one direction, to the left, and you use only one hand. If you are right handed, reverse the set-up. Because it only takes a few seconds per case, you can anneal hundreds of cases in an hour with this method. After the annealing process, remove the cases from the water, shake them out and use a piece of bronze wool to clean the annealed portion. This removes any residual lead and/or burned oil. Then, dry and tumble the cases to remove any traces of residual oil and they are ready to process.

There are many threads that deal with various ways of annealing cases on this site. The above is only one of them (the one I use). You can find others if you look.

[CaptainCrossman]

I have shot my 7.62X39 brass 2 times, is it time to anneal the necks, and any tips to isolate the heat to keep the lower part of the case cool?? thanks, Travis

stand them up in an old frying pan with water level just above the rim about 1/2" up. heat the neck/mouth area with a plumbers torch all around circumference, until it lightly discolors bluish color- then knock the case over with the torch tip end into the water to quench it

7.62x39 is so cheap, is there any cost advantage to reloading it ?

[blackthorn]

I took the time to run "bullet case annealing" in the "Advanced Search" (top of the page, right side" and there are 10 pages of annealing related threads. Have fun!

[dragon813gt]

Annealing is a process that's verified by science. There are all types of ways to do it and most won't give you repeatable results. Will this effect brass life or impact on target? Hard to say because there are to many variables.

The long and short of it is you need something to measure the temperature of the brass, like Tempilaq. And a machine will give you the same result every time. I used the drill and socket method for years. But the results differed from case to case. I now use an Annealeez. Lots of options when it comes to automated annealers. Horizontal table machines have more adjustment but cost more money.

Here is the Annealez in action.
http://s198.photobucket.com/user/dragon813gt/media/TimeToMakeAmmo/D0435E58-D1DC-4E32-BA77-130B64B89F8A_1.mp4.html

[flashhole]

I use the torch method and drill/socket but I use a fixture that positions the brass in exactly the same place piece to piece and I count time in the flame. Works for me.

[GhostHawk]

I have not annealed a lot. I did anneal some .303 british cases that I fireformed to .410 brass. I used my lead pot about half full of lead. Dipped the neck in some bullet lube just before going into the pot. Lube would migrate ahead of the lead keeping the lead from sticking. I held bases with a pair of pliers. When I saw a color change they came out, got tapped on the pot side once to shake off any lead and dropped into water.

Was a pretty simple process, went fairly well. I only ruined one case, first one up, left it in too long. Was dead soft clear to the rim.

Otherwise I doubt I would anneal brass until I started losing more than 1 per hundred to case neck cracks and the like. IMO the Brass will tell you when it is time.

I think of all my brass I have some 7.62x54r that has been reloaded the most often. With 7-8 cycles. No sign of cracks or problems yet so I am in no hurry. YMMV

[Steelshooter]

Hold the case near the middle, hold the neck/shoulder to a candle flame until it's uncomfortable, then drop into water. The candle is hot enough, but not too hot for the brass.

This cracks me up every time I hear someone suggest it.

[slim1836]

I made this one, works well. Several variations can be made, just check YouTube.

http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?54267-75-DIY-Automatic-Case-Annealer-Project-Complete!-Plans-and-parts-list-included!&highlight=case+annealing

Slim

[dragon813gt]

This cracks me up every time I hear someone suggest it.

Same here. Worse part is that it was recently published in Handloader. There is no vudu behind annealing. It's strictly time and temp. Subject the case to a specified temp for a specified amount of time and the case is annealed. You need a temperature indicator, like Tempilaq, if you don't know the temp the case is being exposed to.

[popper]

Depends on why you want to anneal. Neck splits on x39 - who cares (mostly PPU brass?)? I tried the lead, candle, socket tricks, PITA. I use the MAPP torch, neck in the flame tip and hold the case head with the fingers and rotate. When I feel it getting too hot, dump in H2O. For sub MOA, neck turn and anneal about every 6 reloads. Top end loads, anneal more frequently.

[Steelshooter]

If you don't get the brass (case neck)up to proper temperature you are wasting your time and energy.

[gnostic]

I don't bother annealing brass, because it's the primer pocket that fails first.

[Steelshooter]

You must be really loading those cases hot. I have never wore out a primer pocket in 40 years of reloading and I have 308 brass that I know have been reloaded at least 30 times.

[dragon813gt]

I don't bother annealing brass, because it's the primer pocket that fails first.

Annealing isn't just about case failure. It's about consistent neck tension as well. Which plays heavily in accuracy.

[country gent]

Annealing offers several benefits to the Hand Loader, more consistant neck tension, less spring back both in fired cases and when sizing, easier cutting when trimming chamfering and or neck turning, longer life. the shoulder areas softening makes full length sizing easier and more consitant also due to the lessoned spring back. On cases that are neck sized or partial full length sized this also makes for more consistant fire forming and shoulder locations.

[ascast]

I don't bother annealing brass, because it's the primer pocket that fails first.

wow !

[Smoke4320]

I don't bother annealing brass, because it's the primer pocket that fails first.

I'll second you must be loading really hot for the primer pockets to fail first

[Gunners Mate]

Only way to go for accurate case annealing, I have the Giraud works great
https://www.ampannealing.com/
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2015/01/new-flameless-induction-electrical-annealer-from-giraud/

[Electric88]

Only way to go for accurate case annealing, I have the Giraud works great
https://www.ampannealing.com/
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2015/01/new-flameless-induction-electrical-annealer-from-giraud/

I would hope that works great, for that price! :bigsmyl2:

[dragon813gt]

Only way to go for accurate case annealing, I have the Giraud works great
https://www.ampannealing.com/
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2015/01/new-flameless-induction-electrical-annealer-from-giraud/

That is not the ONLY way. If it was then all the other mechanical methods would not be used. And since some companies that produce the brass cartridges use flame annealing it proves it's merit. Induction annealing is the next step. But until costs come down there won't be many adopters. People don't want to spend the money on a cheaper vertical annealer or a more expensive horizontal table annealer let alone an induction machine.

[country gent]

On the case manufacturing set ups I think annealing may be done several times in the process from cupping to drawing necking and final sizing. For ease of control at the speeds these are done I believe the induction is used. Flame annealing in the process would burn the lube off and be harder to set and maintain. Induction could be built into the die and set allowing for the progressive die to run continuously and almost unattended. These progressive dies use hardened tooling and or carbide so the temps annealing brass would have little affect on it.

[Boolit_Head]

I've been thinking of annealing my 300 blackout for better neck tension. Since the brass is converted from 5.56 the necks are from the area below the annealed part of the parent case. Using a flame seemed a bit twitchy but I really like the idea of the salt bath annealing. Enough that I just ordered the stuff to try it.


https://youtu.be/vwdTaDLz56Q

[popper]

If I push my BO past 2200 the PP gets loose. I anneal converted at least once just to make converting it easier - the body hasn't been annealed. again for x39, only for best accuracy.

[flashhole]

No way I would expose my cases to a corrosive solution like salt. Good on you if you are having success.

[gunwonk]

Annealing offers several benefits to the Hand Loader, more consistant neck tension, less spring back both in fired cases and when sizing, easier cutting when trimming chamfering and or neck turning, longer life. the shoulder areas softening makes full length sizing easier and more consitant also due to the lessoned spring back. On cases that are neck sized or partial full length sized this also makes for more consistant fire forming and shoulder locations.

Maybe it's just me, but when I trim softer brass I get bigger wire edges -- so chamfering is more work -- and it just seems to me the cuts are a bit less precise. Or maybe <insert complaint about tools>, whatever. :roll:

+1 on everything else, though.

[country gent]

All my cutters for my trimmers were sharpened by one of the cutter grinders I worked with. they are ground for brass and are at the proper relief angles. I always run on the faster side in the drill press. These cutters were sharpened on a cnc cutter grinder and very fine wheels on the finish grinds. These steps help a lot also. A carbide cutter sounds good and may be a small improvement but by hand or tools available to the reloader you don't have the rpms to take advantage of it. I have a Gracey trimmer that the cutter head runs straight off the motor shaft at 3,000 rpms it does trim chamfer and deburr in one pass and works off the shoulder of the case. The cutters in it are high speed steel possibly with cobalt but not carbide. Ive trimmed many thousands of rounds of .308, many thousand 30-06, same with .223, and bunches of 300 win mag 243 and 22-250 on these cutters and have yet to have to sharpen them from the cutter grinders touch up.

[EDG]

The harder a copper alloy is the cleaner it machines. When annealed it is gummy to cut and tends to stick to the cutters at high speed.
I always form cases, cut off and then trim before annealing.


Maybe it's just me, but when I trim softer brass I get bigger wire edges -- so chamfering is more work -- and it just seems to me the cuts are a bit less precise. Or maybe <insert complaint about tools>, whatever. :roll:

+1 on everything else, though.

[sniper]

Hold the case near the middle, hold the neck/shoulder to a candle flame until it's uncomfortable, then drop into water. The candle is hot enough, but not too hot for the brass.

That works very well, I anneal my cases after 3-5 loadings. The method seems to be substantiated by scientific tests. John Barsness did an article on it in a past Handloader or Rifle magazine...I disremember which. Got it somewhere in my handloading log downstairs. Cheap and easy, using a household candle. (The kind they sell as "emergency" candles at the supermarket.) Some people just make things harder than they need to be!:???:

[Steelshooter]

I would really like to see that article. I don't think a candle will get the brass hot enough, fast enough to anneal the brass before it will burn your fingers off. It has been proven that for the brass to be annealed it has to be heated to 700 and 750 degrees.

[Steelshooter]

Go to 6mm br.com and read the article The Art and Science of Annealing

[Boolit_Head]

I would really like to see that article. I don't think a candle will get the brass hot enough, fast enough to anneal the brass before it will burn your fingers off. It has been proven that for the brass to be annealed it has to be heated to 700 and 750 degrees.


A candle ought to be hot enough.

Color tells us about the temperature of a candle flame. The outer core of the candle flame is light blue -- 1670 K (1400 °C). That is the hottest part of the flame. The color inside the flame becomes yellow, orange and finally red. The further you reach to the center of the flame, the lower the temperature will be. The red portion is around 1070 K (800 °C).

https://hypertextbook.com/facts/1999/JaneFishler.shtml

[Steelshooter]

Don't know what kind of candle they were using, I just went out to the garage with a regular storm candle and measured it with my casting thermometer and after about 45 seconds it reach a high of 690 degrees. I then got a 260 remington case that the thermometer fit tight in the case and measured it again, after approx: 10 seconds the case base was to hot to hold but the thermometer was only approx: 200 degrees. Not scientific by any means but not even close to what is needed to anneal brass. I will test again when I get my tempilag back from my friend.

[gnostic]

You must be really loading those cases hot. I have never wore out a primer pocket in 40 years of reloading and I have 308 brass that I know have been reloaded at least 30 times.

You may have something there, I tend to load jacketed bullets on the warm side, otherwise, I'd be shooting
a cast bullet.

I don't doubt your word, but I've never seen a case loaded, anywhere near that number of times.

[John Boy]

what color should the brass turn for correct annealing?
The correct color is a bluish-green that creates a temperature of 625-650 Fahrenheit. If the brass turns red - your in the 900 degree range which is over heated

[waco]

I wanted to take all the guess work out of it. I bit the bullet and bought a Bench Source Vertex annealing machine. All brass done right the first time. And It's very repeatable. 204315

[747 captain]

I’ve got some cases that I’ve fired 14 times and anneal every fifth firing

[Mr_Sheesh]

I've just always done it by eye, the color rings show nicely if you have the right lighting and you drop the case in water soon as the rings are just right. That's worked well for me anyways.

[dragon813gt]

I've just always done it by eye, the color rings show nicely if you have the right lighting and you drop the case in water soon as the rings are just right. That's worked well for me anyways.

Different brands of brass will yield different visual results. Cartridge brass composition is not the same across all brands. This is why this method is not consistent. Yes, it can and will work. But the results will vary from case to case. If you're annealing for consistent bullet pull this will be a big problem.

[10gaOkie]

If you are loading .351WSL and your custom made brass costs more than 50 cents each, you might be considering annealing. /Chris

[JBinMN]

http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html

[detox]

Without over thinking or sounding TOO scientific, I spin 223 cases over propane torch using a cordless drill. The case is held using 3/8" six point socket (1/4" drive). I direct flame at case shoulder until case neck turns cherry red (dark room), then dump case in water.

[M_59]

Without over thinking or sounding TOO scientific, I spin 223 cases over propane torch using a cordless drill. The case is held using 3/8" six point socket (1/4" drive). I direct flame at case shoulder until case neck turns cherry red (dark room), then dump case in water.

This is basically what I do as well. Darkened room. Heat til I can just barely see color and then dunk.