NuB question?

[runfiveslittlegirl]

ok well I dont believe my dad... if U mix water with the melted lead will it explode? I have always wondered but I didn really feel like trying. so please help.
Thank You much. Dawn =)

[oneokie]

Yes, it will explode. Do a search for "tinsel" or "tinsel fairy". There are several threads that mention molten lead explosions, some even have pics.

[IcerUSA]

At the temp of melted lead water has a tendency to vaporize instantly and if it get under the melt lead will fly every where . In any case water around a smelting pot in not a good idea .

If you suspect moisture in your raw material it is good to to fill the smelting pot and add the heat to melt as the temp goes up the moisture will evaporate before the tinsel fairy can show up .

Keith

[dragonrider]

Just a little calirification of icer's post, he is saying that one fills ones lead pot when it is cold and then make heat. In this manner while it heats up it any moisture will evaporate long before it reaches melt temps. NEVER ADD COLD LEAD TO A HOT POT, this is an ivitation to the tinsel fairy, always preheat your lead to drive off any moisture. It is not just visible moisture as in dripping water that will cause a problem, simply humidity will cause a steam explosion in a lead pot.

[sundog]

Range scrap is an exception if it has jacketed bullets. Water trapped inside a jacket can form steam and not escape until the filler gets soft enough to let it out. By then you very well can have your melt well on its way. That's why I like a lid on the rendering pot.

Water, in small quantity, introduced on the surface of a melt sizzles like in a frying pan. It's when it get under the surface that the real problem occurs. This is not worth trying though.

[montana_charlie]

ok well I dont believe my dad...
If yoU don't believe your Dad, why would yoU believe us?
CM

[Johnch]

I have to add
Just a little condencation on the outside ( in the pores ) of a ingot that falls or is droped into a 20 lb pot
Will empty it in less than a second

As I still have the lead on the walls and ceiling of my casting area to prove it

Luckely for me it happened as I left the room

Just be carefull and have fun

John

[KYCaster]

Here's an acronym for you...BLEVE...Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapor Explosion.

Check out this vidio for a demonstration of the power of a BLEVE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmJoyuUJj2Q


Jerry

[billyb]

ok well I dont believe my dad... if U mix water with the melted lead will it explode? I have always wondered but I didn really feel like trying. so please help.
Thank You much. Dawn =)

when i first started casting i picked up a lot of range lead. my casting shop was a 4x8 shed with sheet iron sides and roof no insulation. i ran gas to a single burner and set a cast iron pot on the burner and lit it up.it was winter ,cold. i went into the house to let the lead melt. the heat built up in the shead the sheet iron started sweating. it rained inside the shead the water driped into the molten lead. i went out to check on the melt when i looked into the shead the pot was all most empty lead covered all four walls,i shut the door cut the gas off and let things set for a while.glad i was not there when it hit the fan. didnt do that any more. insulated the shed an continued to use it for a few more years. water and molten lead do not mix!!.Bill

[runfiveslittlegirl]

montana my dad jokes around with me way to much I dont believe anything he says anymore..

[Southern Son]

What Dragon rider said about it not needing to be wet, just damp is spot on. My one and only visit from the tinsel fairy came a few weeks ago. I was smelting down 3/4 of a bucket of wheel weights I scored. As I sorted the Zinc and steel ones, I would drop the good ones into the melt. The bucket had been sitting in the sun for hours and the weights were visibly dry (dry to the touch to, but I was wearing gloves). I picked up one from the bucket and lowered it into the melt with my pliers. There was a short fizzing noise, kind of like a fuse, just long enough for me to think "What the????" Then POP. Not much lead came out of the pot, thankfully, but it did scorch some hair on the head and burnt up a few whiskers (I had not shaved in a week or so, luckly, I could have gotten bad buns on my chin if I had have shaved). A small peice also hit my glasses and put a permenent pimple on the lense, very annoying while watching T.V., but better than the alternative. That little peice really hit home that you don't need a major event in the pot to really ruin your day, just a tiny little peice of hot lead can really be a bummer.

[Wayne Smith]

If you want to experiment, with your Dad's approval, next time he has a pot melted go cut a green twig no bigger than a coffee stirrer and slowly and gently lower it into the melt. You won't get a big explosion, but each of those pops is a small steam explosion as the water in the wood turns to steam and violently expands. You should be able to feel the stick move and shake as the water vaporizes. Never underestimate the power of steam, it makes most of our electricity, after all.

[HeavyMetal]

Water and hot lead don't mix!

Your Dad may have given you the impression it's a "chemical" reaction, it's not! Water applied to lead at room temp just cleans it. Water "injected" into hot metal of any kind will create a steam "explosion" as water expands at a tremendous rate when it is heated.

The conversion of a liquid to a gas, suddenly, is what splash's lead all over the place.

[willie_pete]

Here's an acronym for you...BLEVE...Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapor Explosion.

Check out this vidio for a demonstration of the power of a BLEVE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmJoyuUJj2Q


Jerry


The water heater wasn't a real BLEVE because there was no real explosion. Here is a real BLEVE done as an experiment with a railcar. We used to call them "Blast Leveling Everything Very Effectively"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvThP6zdfMw

WP

[Ricochet]

I once came on the scene a few minutes after a propane tanker truck (big tractor-trailer) had gotten trapped by traffic across railroad tracks and was hit by a train. The propane had exploded in a fireball and quickly evaporated. Everything was smoking when I got there, but there were no flames. All the cars surrounding the truck were burned to shiny steel, with no tires or glass. The people involved did not fare well, needless to say.

[hammerhead357]

Ricochet, I'll bet the train crew didn't fare well either. Tractor-trailer rigs are a railroaders nightmare, especially tank trucks. But for the life of me after 35 years as a railroader I haven't figured out why people will stop on top of a rail road crossing. It is just doesn' make sense to me......Wes

[hammerhead357]

Littlegirl, sorry I didn't mean to hijack your thread. Back to the water, lead mix. You don't want to introduce water under the surface of molten lead...Even the skimmers and stirring implements need to be heated before use or the moisture trapped on the surface of them will explode when stuck into the lead melt...Don't ask how I know this.......Wes

[725]

There are three kinds of explosion: Nuclear, chemical, & mechanical. Nuclear is kind of self evident. Chemical occurs when the compounds deflagrate. Mechanical occurs when stuff like trapped water rapidly turns to steam and generates expanding pressure, or a pressure vessal is filled beyond it's ability to contain the pressure. ie: a balloon explodes

[KYCaster]

The water heater wasn't a real BLEVE because there was no real explosion. Here is a real BLEVE done as an experiment with a railcar. We used to call them "Blast Leveling Everything Very Effectively"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvThP6zdfMw

WP




:hijack:

WP, Technically, I suppose I have to agree with you, but not for the reason you imply. In the vidio I cited, heat was applied to the water heater until the expanding LIQUID increased the pressure until the container failed. At that point the pressure was reduced causing the steam explosion.

By the same token, the propane tank in the vidio you cited failed for the same reason; heat was applied until the expanding LIQUID caused the container to fail. At that point the propane vaporized and expanded until the propane/air ratio allowed the fuel to ignite, causing the fireball. (fuel/air bomb) The propane explosion was an added effect to the expanding vapor. The tank would have ruptured even if the liquid it contained were not flamable.

Unfortunately I can't find anything that correctly demonstrates a true BLEVE. Everything I've found is identical to the two we've already cited, all of them causing the initial failure of the container by increasing the temp of the liquid until the container fails.

The same thing can be accomplished by maintain the pressure in a water heater at a constant 70 psi and the temp. at a constant 300 deg. F. Then, by simply opening a valve the pressure is relieved, allowing the water to instantly convert to vapor. In this case it's expanding VAPOR, not liquid that causes the initial failure of the container.

Thread hijack over...back to your regularly scheduled program.

Jerry

[MT Gianni]

I agree Jerry. I watched a good training video out of Alberta where the camera crew set up 1/4 mile away, bypassed all safetys and remote monitered a water heater until it blew. It totaled the 2 bedroom home it was in and the crew decided 1/4 mile was too close. You won't see an actual BLEVE on Youtube. I saw the after effects of a 20# propane bottle that bleved during a fire and witnesed a tank split from a fire. Amazing stuff but tough to catch on camera. Gianni

[runfiveslittlegirl]

Wayne thank you for the idea I will ask my dad if I can do that.


I was told by my dad today that the "tinsel fairy" is my uncle. He was working with hot lead and some sweat got into the pot, I guess the lead exploded and covered my uncle completly... and the garage was also covered completly. So I called my uncle and its true lol.

[runfiveslittlegirl]

oops double post

[Bret4207]

If your Dad tells you something LISTEN TO HIM!!! He may not be cool, he may smell odd and maybe he dresses like a bum, but he loves you more than life itself and if he gives you advice it's best you listen to him.

Glad you're here- Bret, father of 6, 3 girls, and yes I know I smell odd and dress like I bum.

[runfiveslittlegirl]

Bret thank you I will listen to him...well mabey

[Wayne Smith]

Listen to him, then ask to verify. Like I suggested, use an experimental method to verify what he tells you. He should enjoy this.

[Maximilian225]

Bret, father of 6, 3 girls



Bret. I have often heard that your not really a parent until you have two kids. As a father of 2 boys and 1 girl I can honestly say your not really a parent until you have a girl. 1 Girl is equal to 3 boys.

:hijack:

[9.3X62AL]

Oy, vey.......I have 6 girls. Luv 'em to pieces, but I'm thankful for having a garage to retreat to. It is known as The Bear Cave, The Bear Habitat, and a few other names I haven't overheard yet.

Mark Twain said it best--something along the lines of, "When I was 14, my father had no idea how the world worked or what life was about. By the time I turned 21, he had really come around."

LG, your Dad is steering you right. I don't think I would try that green stick experiment without full safety covering, 'cause any visit from the Tinsel Fairy is a pretty scary event. I strive to keep that wench at a long distance.

[runfiveslittlegirl]

Al. My dad wont let me try the experiment instead he told me of my uncle who had himself and the garage covered they and it wasn' pretty at all! I decided it does happen and I dont want it to EVER happen to me!

Thank you all for your help.

[runfiveslittlegirl]

We dont try to be like that. Were just stubborn and know what we want, and when we want it! We know we can be bratty and well idk the word 4it. But we usually no were doing it.

My dad has two girls, and my brother. My bro. and sis are handi-cap with a learning disability and My sister has schizophrenia but we all love to shoot and we usally listen to him. Unless we decide to be stupid, but Ive learned No is No with my dad.... too bad my friend Alexandria hasn' yet. lol

[PineTreeGreen]

Back in the days before PVC pipe and solvent, we used cast iron soil pipe and poured lead joints.
One morning we had filled the lead pot (40 lbs.)and turned the heat on. We were setting up a pump to pump the ditch out. Luckily no one was near the lead pot. It just went "whooooosh". Don't know what happened, but the lead was everywhere and pot was almost empty. :confused:
Before I cast, everything i'm going to melt is stacked up in the pot and then the heat is turned on. Everything gets nice and warm together, cozey [smilie=1: