Fired the wrong cartridge, got the best accuracy!!!

[fatelvis]

While I was at the range, I was trying out several 30-40 Krag loads in my #3 Ruger @ 100 yds. Most of which were using a 311299 over 16-19 grains of 4759. Suddenly, I stumbled upon a four shot group that was much tighter than the others! Great! I looked down at the fire cases laying on the bench, and realized they were 30-30 cases, all split down the side with the shoulder blown out of whack, and they were loaded with 16grns 4759 under a 311041 boolit!!! After I cleaned out my undershorts, I figured I would clean the chamber real good and maybe try 311041s and 16grns 4759 in the correct case next time! Seriously, I am happy that nothing was damaged, or no one was hurt. But it did give me some future load ideas, and Was a reminder to stay alert.

[starnbar]

Thank the good Lord nothing happened to you had one of my sons put 308 in a 3006 yes they look similar but one is shorter than the other.

[NoAngel]

If one were to make a mistake of that sort, the #1/#3 action is the one to do it in. It's the 350 4 Bolt Main of the gun world.

I have always been mildly curious what kind of pressure it would take to get one of those actions to let loose. I bet it would be impressive.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Thank the good Lord nothing happened to you had one of my sons put 308 in a 3006 yes they look similar but one is shorter than the other.

That is a bit different, for if the extractor doesn't hold the case head tightly against the breech face, you can have a drastically excessive headspace. At least the .30-30 has a rim.

While most emphatically not a thing to try again (it could be disastrous just one time in five, or you could have beaten the odds this time), I am not surprised by the result, or by at least reasonable accuracy. If the pressure will split thick brass in the rear part of the body, it will expand thinner brass in the neck, and quite possibly expand it first, leaving the bullet free to move. Did you notice whether there was fouling anywhere unusual around the action? There is every chance that the split didn't run back to the solid head, and therefore provided a seal, just like a head separation usually does.

[runfiverun]

reminds me of when I went to fire form some rounds in my 03A3.
the load wouldn't shoot worth beans in the savage or the 1917.
but I wanted to check out the new rifle and needed the brass.
load development ended right there for that rifle.

[gwpercle]

Now, in theory, accuracy should have been ...not so good. But in practice it was the best !
Go figure , what did Yogi Berra have to say about theory...
The Ruger #3 did an admirable job, glad all is well.
Gary

[fatelvis]

Those four rounds of 30-30 formed about a 1.25" group!!


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[Ballistics in Scotland]

Now, in theory, accuracy should have been ...not so good. But in practice it was the best !
Go figure , what did Yogi Berra have to say about theory...
The Ruger #3 did an admirable job, glad all is well.
Gary

What Sir Isaac Newton said about bullets was that you don't have to make them fly in a straight line. You just have to eliminate whatever would make them fly off squint, and they will do it of their own accord.

[Tatume]

Actually, Newton was well aware that bullets follow a parabola. He was also aware of the fact that, in theory, a bullet fired at a sufficiently high velocity could hit the shooter from behind. The direct descendant of this line of thought is Earth-orbiting artificial satellites.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_cannonball

[skeettx]

Bought a P-14 enfield, took it to my shooting spot.
Chambered a 303 Brit
Pulled the trigger, NOT GOOD
Opened the bolt, out came a fire formed 300 Win Mag kinda looking case!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YUK!!!
Mike

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Actually, Newton was well aware that bullets follow a parabola. He was also aware of the fact that, in theory, a bullet fired at a sufficiently high velocity could hit the shooter from behind. The direct descendant of this line of thought is Earth-orbiting artificial satellites.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_cannonball

Indeed he was, because bullets in flight, including the special case of orbit, are acted upon by external forces. Without those they would either remain at rest or continue in constant-speed straight-line motion.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Bought a P-14 enfield, took it to my shooting spot.
Chambered a 303 Brit
Pulled the trigger, NOT GOOD
Opened the bolt, out came a fire formed 300 Win Mag kinda looking case!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YUK!!!
Mike

They are popular for conversions, or they used to be, such as my .300H&H. The .303 bolt face is a good fit for the magnum case-head. But mine was a rebarrelling job. I have heard it said that the .300WM rechambering of the military barrel (otherwise, usually a good quality and nicely contoured one) is inadvisable because a screwhole comes undesirably close to the shoulder. How likely is a failure as a result? Probably quite unlikely, but how good is quite unlikely with rifle blow-ups?

[Texas by God]

Reminds me of Ron Spomer firing a 7mm-08 in his 25-06 Dakota single shot. And a group of gunwriters firing .41 mags in a Super Blackhawk- wondering why they weren't hitting those distant rocks anymore. Myself- I bought a mail order Siamese Mauser & being young I just wanted to make it go bang. I fired a .32 Win Special(8mm,right?) In it. I got so much gas in my eye it took a while to see straight. Pay attention my friends!!

[Scharfschuetze]

I once bought a 1903A3 that had a badly pitted barrel for a song. I screwed on what was apparently a stock and mint RA 44 barrel onto the rifle and thus, I thought, rejuvenated the old war horse.

Went to the range and fired a few rounds and is my practice, looked at the cases to see if there were any issues.

Yep, sure enough there was. Someone had rechambered that otherwise untouched GI barrel to 30 Gibbs. I had just managed to fire form a few Lake City Ought Six cases. While it was a safe operation, I really didn't need to find anyone to make me a set of 30 Gibbs dies so the barrel came off and a proper RA 44 barrel was screwed on.

If I was building a custom deer or elk rifle, the 30 Gibbs might be a good choice, but not for a restored military rifle.


Reminds me of Ron Spomer firing a 7mm-08 in his 25-06 Dakota single shot.

I shot with Ron for a week several years ago in Oregon. He's an excellent shot and a died in the wool gentleman.

I grabbed this photo of the 30 Gibbs off the Internet.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Reminds me of Ron Spomer firing a 7mm-08 in his 25-06 Dakota single shot. And a group of gunwriters firing .41 mags in a Super Blackhawk- wondering why they weren't hitting those distant rocks anymore. Myself- I bought a mail order Siamese Mauser & being young I just wanted to make it go bang. I fired a .32 Win Special(8mm,right?) In it. I got so much gas in my eye it took a while to see straight. Pay attention my friends!!

Again we are comparing different situations. The .30-40 and .30-30 have about a .035in, diameter difference, the .41 and .44 Magnums rather less (and your face nearly as far from the head as from the cylinder gap. The 7mm.-08, .25-06, .308, .30-06 and .30 Gibbs have no functional head diameter difference at all, and the extractor may minimise the effect of the length to shoulder. The .32 Special and the 8mm. Siamese round .082 if they didn't go in for oversize military chambers, with a very good chance that the solid head will fail. It could have been a longer while.

[Boogieman]

Once fired a 41mag. in my SBH 44mag. didn't find it till I tried to resize the fired case.

[Texas by God]

I wasn't comparing situations. I was simply listing a few examples of the wrong cartridge/right gun phenomenon. The OP is fortunate to have gotten away with carelessness. As we all are at some point. Best, Thomas.

[lightman]

I've found several odd cases over the years that were fired in the wrong chamber. A 300 Winchester Magnum looks funny when fire formed in a 300 Weatherby chamber. So does a 308 when fired in a 30-06 chamber. Seems like I have found a few others.

Glad fatelvis was not injured. Thanks for posting this!

[fatelvis]

Thanks guys. Hopefully I'll never start another post like this again! Lol


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[Texas by God]

We all are glad you are ok. The scenario that scares me is for someone to grab a magazine of .300 Blackout and put it in a 5.56 AR and fire it. THAT would be BAD. Hopefully only the gun gets hurt(and it would). Oh by the way that #3 is ruined-better send it to me for disposal........ Best, Thomas.

[pka45]

I once loaded some 45 loads in 44 Mag brass - didn't notice until I saw that my spent brass were all split! Now that's why the bullets were so hard to seat...

[Texas by God]

I remembered another. My first ex brother in law (Sister picked a couple of losers before she got it right) took his turn at the bench with his .270. The third shot sounded different and he said "dust hit my face". He had grabbed one of the previous shooter's .243 shells by mistake. The brass came out neck less and apparently the neck and bullet landed in the group on paper. This was similar to the Spomer incident but in reverse. Like Ballistics said the case body being the same diameter prevented a worse experience.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

It should prevent a worse experience. Some extractors don't hold the case close against the breech-face, and the sort of light strike that could result might well cause enough of a hangfire for the case to be hurled as far forward as it will go. There was obviously some gas escape, and some rifles handle it much worse than others.

Your case should remind us that leaving a cartridge at the firing point is a potentially dangerous act. It could have been much worse with a larger-calibre one which would chamber.

[Harter66]

I once picked up a badly split steel 223 case that had gone through a 6.8 chamber .
I've picked up a full box of 7mm RM with a decidedly Weatherby shoulder also . I picked about 10 rounds on 7mm08 that only had a neck about 18 long . I'd guess it was in a 7x57 . I suppose it'll happen to me some day .

[26Charlie]

Fatelvis, CB loads are more forgiving, and even we older experienced sages screw up. Took some CB 311041 loads for the .30-06 to the range. First shot was on target where it should be, but case came out ending at mid shoulder. Aha, faulty case cracked off and front part went down range with the bullet, I thought. Looked through the bore. Fired another round (a Nono!) Same result. Right, they were .308 loads. Gave the deformed cases to some younger shooters as object lessons in what not to do.

[Shiloh]

Thank the good Lord nothing happened to you had one of my sons put 308 in a 3006 yes they look similar but one is shorter than the other.

I have seen pics of .308 brass fired in an '06 chamber. I saw one piece found at the range by a buddy. I couldn't talk him out of it for my collection.

Shiloh

[dverna]

We all are glad you are ok. The scenario that scares me is for someone to grab a magazine of .300 Blackout and put it in a 5.56 AR and fire it. THAT would be BAD. Hopefully only the gun gets hurt(and it would). Oh by the way that #3 is ruined-better send it to me for disposal........ Best, Thomas.

It is one reason I have not acquired a .300 BO upper for my AR's. I may never do something like that, but I have others in my family who might.

Don Verna

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I have seen pics of .308 brass fired in an '06 chamber. I saw one piece found at the range by a buddy. I couldn't talk him out of it for my collection.

Shiloh

It should be easier than talking you into producing one for your collection.

[P Flados]

A while back, I was at our nearby indoor range with my son.

After we had been shooting revolvers for a while, I notice he was not shooting as good as usual. I pulled out a batch of light 38 Specials and told him to practice slow fire offhand in my Contender. He fired a couple. The hits looked good, slightly left, about an inch apart at 25 ft. However, after the he pulled the second one he noticed that the removed case was split and generally looked ugly.

Turns out he was shooting 38 Specials in my Contender with the 30 Herrett barrel instead of my Contender with the 357 mag barrel.

Again, the mystery was how well they shot and grouped.

[Scharfschuetze]

I have seen pics of .308 brass fired in an '06 chamber. I saw one piece found at the range by a buddy. I couldn't talk him out of it for my collection.

Shiloh

As the range OIC, I once saw a BAR eat a whole magazine of M118 Match ammo (7.62 NATO) without a hitch. I had to call a cease fire on the range when I discovered that the troopers had loaded all their BAR magazines with the NATO rounds instead of the M2 Ball ammo (30/06) that was supposed to be fired in the four 1918A3 BARs that we had on the range.

That BAR never even hiccuped in full auto. What a fine weapon. I bet that they would have fired all the rounds in all those magazines without anyone noticing if I had not seen the oddly fire formed cases on the ground. We had a quick review of the 1918A3 (BAR) while the chastised troopers (from a sister SOF unit) reloaded the magazines with the proper M2 rounds.

[Texas by God]

This is the reason the .450 Marlin has a longer belt. To keep from being chambered & fired in a 7mm mag,etc. The .458x2"wildcat will chamber in all the standard belted magnums and fire. Quite literally a bomb. Keep only the ammo for the gun being fired on the bench!!! Be safe.

[HABCAN]

Indoor testing range, poorly lit. Friend had just purchased a long Swede 96, and an old part box of factory Dominion 6.5x55 cartridges at a gun show. One round didn't 'want' to chamber, but was forced in and fired. Funny............yup, 6.5x53 Carcano round. OOPS!

[Mohawk Daddy]

"Keep only the ammo for the gun being fired on the bench!!!" Excellent rule. After repeatedly warning my son about shooting 308 and 7.65 Mauser at the same time, I somehow managed to load a mousefart 30-30 round into a Mosin-Nagant and fire it. When the shot went "whuff" instead of "bang", I knew I had done wrong. I extracted the case and was surprised to see it wasn't even split. The 30-30 brass had ballooned up to fill the Russian chamber without bursting. Very odd looking round, the fireformed 30-30/7.62X54R. I don't intend to make any more.

[woodbutcher]

:lol: The post about the BARs reminded me about a comment that a retired Marine said about the BAR he used in Korea.That damned thing would eat anything that you would feed,and not fuss a bit.And thank the good Lord for that,too.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[Ballistics in Scotland]

It is a greater danger with old or military rifles, for which civilian range use was never foreseen. Armies, with a few exceptions, generally issue only one type of ammunition which looks like it would fit a given firearm. So why would they need to mark the gun with a cartridge identification?

[RustyReel]

I just picked up a nice Weatherby Vanguard in 300 Weatherby Mag. Guys ad said he only fired it three times. So, while making the deal I asked him if he had any ammo. I said there should be a partial box around here if he only fired it a few times. He hands me a 17 round box of 300 Winchester Mag. When I questioned him about it he said that is what the guy at the store gave him. He was not a gun guy!

When I got home I did an interweb search and apparently he is not the first guy to do that. Supposedly does not hurt the rifle but ruins the brass.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

They both begin with a W. Clearly he must not have liked it for some reason. With a belt setting the headspace this should be at least as safe as fireforming most of the Ackley Improved rounds from standard cartridges. I think there is even a pretty good chance the brass might be fine.

[Texas by God]

Firing .300 WinMag in a .300 Wby chamber might make good .458 Win Mag brass if anything....

[Thin Man]

An acquaintance brought his new 9mm to me with two complaints - it didn't always fire the cartridge, and fired brass looked really strange. I looked at the rollmarks on the slide and informed him he owned a pistol chambered for .40 S&W. He read the rollmarks and pitched a fit. He had just bought the pistol new from a local gun shop. After telling the clerk which pistol (and caliber) he wanted the clerk went into the back room and reappeared with a closed pistol box containing this pistol. The sale was completed and neither of them took the pistol out of the box in the store. I suggested the owner could either keep the .40 and feed it the correct ammo, or return it where he bought it to exchange it for a 9mm. Never did hear how he settled the question.

Thin Man

[Texas by God]

An acquaintance brought his new 9mm to me with two complaints - it didn't always fire the cartridge, and fired brass looked really strange. I looked at the rollmarks on the slide and informed him he owned a pistol chambered for .40 S&W. He read the rollmarks and pitched a fit. He had just bought the pistol new from a local gun shop. After telling the clerk which pistol (and caliber) he wanted the clerk went into the back room and reappeared with a closed pistol box containing this pistol. The sale was completed and neither of them took the pistol out of the box in the store. I suggested the owner could either keep the .40 and feed it the correct ammo, or return it where he bought it to exchange it for a 9mm. Never did hear how he settled the question.

Thin Man

A little reading goes a long ways. And we wonder why our new guns have so many words on them.

[pakmc]

trust me, a 300 blackout in a 5.56 would be bad. it was bad with a 300 blackout in a 6x45 chamber(.223 necked up to .243) we saved the charging handle of the upper and I was able to squire the lower back to where it would take a regular mag. not a rounded one.(I had two guns that where built the same except for the bore of the barrel.)