8mm cast boolit load data

[loiner1965]

loaded up some 8mm .323 225gn gas checked lee boolits fed by 16gn to 19gn of 2400 powder.
no holes on paper at 100 yds.
i stood around 30yds away and tried again all 3 rounds were 8 inches low from point of aim.
no speed figures as chrono was sat in a comfy warm house whilst i was shooting away lol.
no soot at all on the cases or gunpowder residue in chamber so all was burn and shot really well apart from not hitting anything....lube was carnuba wax which is rated beyond 1700fps.....what gives ?

[Larry Gibson]

Would like to help but not enough information given. A little information on the rifle used, the sights and what they are actually zeroed for may help elicit a helpful answer.

Larry Gibson

[loiner1965]

sorry larry.....
military verguiero mauser in 8 x 57
standard military sights which more or less shoots point of aim at 100 yds with standard 198gn privi ammo

[Kraschenbirn]

Not really enough info. Assuming the rifle is some variant of the M98, what's it's groove diameter? A .323 boolit diameter is usually on the small side for the typical milsurp 8x57...I mean, outside of a few Yugo M48s, there just ain't any new condition Mausers floating around. Any leading in your bore?

"15 gn to 19 gn of 2400"...how many rounds of each charge did you fire? Shooting off a solid rest or offhand?

"8 inches low from point of aim"...okay, what was rear sight distance setting (assuming 'as-issued' sights)? CBs just don't shoot to POA of sights calibrated for military FMJs. Also, how did those three rounds group?

Bill

Added...looks like Larry got his in while I was typing mine.:)

[loiner1965]

phew ......cheers chaps for the info.
i shoot alot of firearms and do shoot casts in bp withe the martinis / sniders etc
i not slugged the barrel as i always shoot home made loads with 198 gns fmj with vit 160 etc.
i can hold a 6 inch group normally with factory rounds or reloaded rounds at 100 yds with my old eyes which are not suited to be fair for open sights.
i fired 3 rounds at each charge off a cadwell shooting bag so was very stable and recoil was very minimal.
i have other recipes to try but was told 2400 was the most widely used powder for casts which i have plenty.
barrel is spotless and no leading as this is the first time i tried them....its cleaned spotless after use each time.

[runfiverun]

most cast loads need the rear sight raised up to the 3=400yd mark
to be close at 100.

[Larry Gibson]

sorry larry.....
military verguiero mauser in 8 x 57
standard military sights which more or less shoots point of aim at 100 yds with standard 198gn privi ammo

Thanks, adjust the rear sight to the 500 or 600 meter setting. that should get you on a reasonable sized target at 100 yards. You can go up or down to fine tune and even add small shims under the sight leaf to get it zeroed where you want it for that load.

Larry Gibson

[loiner1965]

might have to do that but will try other powders like unique / trailboss and i been told 4198.
trail and error but its fun in working it all out

[Kraschenbirn]

My best results with heavier boolits in the 8x57...I shoot the Lee 329-205, PC'd and sized to .325...has been with 4895 or AA2015 at around 1850-1900 fps. 300M sight setting with a 6 o'clock hold gets me on an 8" paper plate @ 100 yds.

Bill

[loiner1965]

many thanks gentlemen.
round 2 hopefully this weekend
boolits seated alot further out so gas check is still in the case neck as before i didnt check just seated.
checked and dummy boolit chambered.....this time i will try different powders too

[Calamity Jake]

Larry Gibson


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by loiner1965 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=3920795#post3920795)
sorry larry.....
military verguiero mauser in 8 x 57
standard military sights which more or less shoots point of aim at 100 yds with standard 198gn privi ammo



Thanks, adjust the rear sight to the 500 or 600 meter setting. that should get you on a reasonable sized target at 100 yards. You can go up or down to fine tune and even add small shims under the sight leaf to get it zeroed where you want it for that load.

Larry Gibson

loiner1965

might have to do that but will try other powders like unique / trailboss and i been told 4198.
trail and error but its fun in working it all out

There's no getting around raising the rear sight to get it on paper.
Like Larry said above adjust to the 5-600 meter setting!!!
Then shoot a few at 50 yards, then go to 100

[loiner1965]

i shot into the sand and was watched by a friend and he said they was no impact to be seen.
i even aimed at the top of the board which was around 12 inches higher than the top of the 6 inch target and still no bullet holes in the board ( clean 3ft by 1.5 ft approx paper )
personally i think the gas check were coming off as they were seated below neck.
i bought these boolits already lubed and gas checked and not made by myself.
i did pull a few before and the check was left in the case on everyone .....
the next batch i have made i have superglued the aluminium check on the bullet and sized them and all are perfectly square.
not sure what make or size the original ones were.
many thanks gentleman for your replies and its much appreciated.
i am now going to slug the barrel this week as well to see what size it really is.
i do cast for sniders and martinis but using smokeless and gas checks is another ball game but interesting all the same.

[Boolseye]

Hmm..my Mauser is by far my most accurate rifle with cast using the Lee 323-175 and 16 gr. of 2400. I size at .324" for a barrel that slugs at .323.". Also, of course, the rear sight has to come way up (set at 600m for my load). I use dacron too, to tighten up the groups even more.

[loiner1965]

Will even try kapok even though 2400 is not case sensitive.

[Maven]

"Will even try kapok even though 2400 is not case sensitive." ...loiner

Since 2400 isn't position sensitive, why do you want to add a filler (and introduce another variable and perhaps a degree of risk)? Two suggestions: (1) Drop the charge of 2400 to 17gr. until you get on paper; and (2) as suggested, use a .324" - .325" gas checked CB. The latter may require you to "beagle" the mold (search the forum for this) and lap out your sizing die. If the sizing die is a Lee push through .323", lapping is really easy.

[Larry Gibson]

Concur with Maven; a filler should not be necessary with 2400 under a 225 gr cast bullet in the 8x57.

Larry Gibson

[loiner1965]

will do a search for beagle lol.
i have another source of the same boolits from my friend and they are un sized and not gas checked.....they dropped out .325 / .326
i deliberately asked him not to do anything to them.
he uses these boolits with 14gns unique with packing and hitting golf balls at 100 yds with his yugo mauser with scope.
i will try a few things this weekend but i think the checks were coming off on my first outing.
i will gas check the boolits and seat them in the neck this time and use 17gns of 2400 ( no kapok ) and set sights to 600 yds.
i actually in a desperate attempt to see where they were going i set full elavation and still nothing on paper so i presumed they just whizzed off lol
edit.....cannot enlarge the mold as i dont have it.
i bought 100 ready made / lubed and gas checked and my friend sent me some of his to try too.
is beagling...... self tap a screw to a cast boolit dropped from the mold then inserting into a drill and lap the mold with valve grinding paste ?

[RogerDat]

Might try size & gas check. Then PC. The PC adds a little more diameter to the bullet and makes for a very slick bullet. I use 4198 can't recall the recipe but it is a fairly mild load, same bullet as you are prepared as I said at the beginning. I apply a small amount of crimp, just a tiny touch beyond removing flare for loading bullet. Shoots well in terms of grouping assuming the part back by the trigger does his job right.

[loiner1965]

i did find a load for 4198 powder too......

edit.....22 gns of 4198 powder is quite nice and accurate

[Boolseye]

is beagling...... self tap a screw to a cast boolit dropped from the mold then inserting into a drill and lap the mold with valve grinding paste ?

No, that's lapping. Beagling is just little strips of Al air conditioner duct tape at strategic points on the mold faces, to open the blocks .001-.002" See Beagle's write-up on it. Also some good write-ups on lapping, that's a permanent fix, must be done slowly and carefully to avoid damage.
This is my beagled 8mm Lee mold:186121186122186123

[Shiloh]

My sights set at 600 meter mark drops them into the middle of of a 200 yd. SR target.

SHiloh

[loiner1965]

Had a try again today and after a few rounds with 17gns 2400 and sights at 600 .
bullet seated within the neck they were still no holes in paper.
an experienced bp shooter and cast boolit shooter asked what's the issue.
He knows it shoots great with full metal jacket and I told him what happened previous so my only option was to slug the bore.
luckily he is an ex tool maker and carried the instrument in his car to measure my bore.
it was shooting sized .323 boolits but my bore measured .325 / 6 .
he shoots mausers / sharps and a mk 4 lee Enfield which shoots accurately with .314 boolits.
so now we know what boolits I need.....I have some un sized .325 boolits but how can I seat the gas check?
It will not beat me as it will shoot cast boolits to my satisfaction......lol

[Oklahoma Rebel]

I have a mosin nagant and an sks, and both need the sight raised to hit where I am aiming, 4198 wont help, I use it and rel7 and still the sight stays high, jacketed bullets offer more resistance so they leave the barrel a little later in recoil, so when you shoot cast and the boolit leaves earlier in recoil it is angled lower than the jacketed bullet. no getting around it, that sight has got to come up. good luck, Travis

[Oklahoma Rebel]

mine are at 200 and 300 so you will have to find your rifles sweet spot, you might have gone to high, lol

[Oklahoma Rebel]

what kind of sizer are you using, I have had a lee sizer lathed out before, I think it was lathesmith that did it, either way you need a bigger die, sorry, I know it can be frustrating but that's the answer to your problems right there. by the way, did you actually measure a slug or did he measure the inside of the muzzle with calipers?

[loiner1965]

what kind of sizer are you using, I have had a lee sizer lathed out before, I think it was lathesmith that did it, either way you need a bigger die, sorry, I know it can be frustrating but that's the answer to your problems right there. by the way, did you actually measure a slug or did he measure the inside of the muzzle with calipers?
He had a set of instruments that entered the muzzle and you twist the end so a t piece opens up inside the bore and measures the width.....then he used a micrometer to get the reading.
i did a search on here and they was another poster who asked about cast boolits for his verguiero and his measured .325 too....I even replied to his thread 7 years ago lol.
am ordering some more boolits at .325 and trying again.

[loiner1965]

Previous boolits were bought in sized and gas checked at .323
i sold my Starr and lyman 4500 years ago as I never really used them .
lathesmith did make me a few dies for them too for martini Henry etc.
i do have the lee push thru sizer here but would not be cost effective to send it to him.
round 3 will come again as soon as I am kitted out

[Oklahoma Rebel]

alright, well keep us updated, I am interested in you getting that rifle shooting right, I am sure it will. like I said , my 7.62X54 w/ 200 gr boolit and 17 or 18 grs of imr4198, needs to have its sight at 300 yards to hit point of aim at 50 yards

[loiner1965]

Boolits gas checked and sized around .325 are hopefully on their way tomorrow.
i will use magnum primers this time even though all powder as been burnt from previous shootings.
they was a chap on here with a verguiro asking more or less the same questions years ago too.
most I spoke to have been using .325 boolits unfortunately I was using fmj sized cast boolits

[Eddie Southgate]

#45 Lyman manual lists 19-24 gr for a 168 gr GC bullet and 16-20 gr for a 246 gr GC bullet both on #2 alloy . They used a 98 Mauser for their test . With the 168 gr bullet their most accurate load was the 24 grains. With the 246 gr bullet it was the 16 grain load . Speaking of 2400 of course . I would think somewhere in the 20-22 grain range would be about right with the 225 grain GC Lee bullet . They were using .323 bullets .

Eddie

[Boolseye]

you can always hone a Lee sizer to the diameter you need, get you a 1/4" steel rod and some 4 and 600 grit sandpaper. Very carefully wrap the rod for a snug fit and roll it along a rough piece of wood or the like. It's easy to go too far, check regularly. As long as the shank is in spec, you should be able to apply gas checks and size out to .325". I suggest slugging your barrel too, just to double check that guy's measurements. If your groove diameter is actually .325-.326", then .325" boolits won't shoot that great either. I suspect the real measurement is somewhat smaller.