New project

[mud_alaska]

Hi all, hope all is having a happy new year. I'm wanting to start a new project for 2017 with one of my 30-30's I picked up. The rifle in question is a Winchester 94 that I cut down to 16 1/2", shortened the L.O.P. to 12 1/2" to be simulor to the baby Winchester's of there time. The question I have is what caliber would you have Jess rebore your gun to? I'm looking at 35-30, 38-55, or 375 Winchester. Please keep in mind that I live in Alaska and hunt moose and grizzly on a regular basis along with smaller game all within about 100 yards max. So what cal would yo go with? Any suggestions would be great and thanks to all in advance. Justin

[corbinace]

:kidding:No replacement for displacement. Go big or go home.

[runfiverun]

the 375 has too much pressure for the regular 94.
the 38-55 is too lightweight in the velocity dept. but works great on deer and even black bear with a good cast boolit.
which leaves you the better option of the 35-30, if you could get it Ackleyed you'd be just past the 35 Remington.
probably fine for moose, but not what I'd want for a grizzly.

IMO leave it as is for the lighter game and get something larger for the other two.

[mud_alaska]

I understand that the 375's 52,000 psi is above what the 94's action is rated at approximately 38,000 to 42,000 psi. Now the 38-55 is rated at 30,000 psi but if that was chambered in the 94 you should be able to run it up to the 94's psi and have a 255 grain 377 diameter slug going out the barrel at around 2,000 fps in a 20" carbine. I guess I was just using the 375 as a reference more so than anything for the 38-55 is the predecessor to the 375. Thanks again for the thoughts and please keep them coming.

[Beerd]

take the big bears off the list and I would do a 35-30.
lots of mould choices out there.
..

[Mk42gunner]

I don't hunt grizzly bears, (none around here) and if I did I don't think I would use anything that can be safely fired from a 94 Winchester. You shortened version would be even less powerful.

With that said, a 16" 94 with 12.5"LOP makes a very handy little carbine, and I have always liked the idea of a .38-55.

Robert

[Nrut]

38-55 with this bullet, using WDWW for alloy for moose and bear..
185735

http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/bin/TLC380250RF/bullet/bullet_sketch.jpg

Load data:
http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/bin/TLC380250RF/data/loadnotes01.pdf

For deer in the ribs I would drill a cup point and use ACWW + 20-30% Pb..

[bearcove]

38-55 is your most bang for your buck. Load it to max for hunting and a moose won't be able to tell you it wasn't a 375.

[mud_alaska]

I thank you all for your thoughts on this project. I understand most's hesitation on the grizzlies with these caliber's, but a lot of big bears have been taken with a lot less! Anyway Nrut thank you very much for the info you posted. I've been looking at that mold quite a bit but never seen the load data you included. I'm really leaning toward the 38-55. For one it's an original cartridge that was black powder, and two the more research I do on the 3 cartridges I listed the more 2 of them shine, the 35-30 and the 38-55. The thing that sways me to the 38-55 is the .375+ diameter boolit that it throws vs the .358 diameter of the 35-30. I'm not set on anything yet and still have a lot more research to do but thank you all for your thoughts. Thanks Justin

[missionary5155]

Good morning
When Winchester started the 375 development they used standard frames for the tests. Nothing blew up but they realized that the original frame was getting close to the pressure curve where the frame was going to stretch over time. They also decided to thicken the diameter of the barrel threads for just that bit more of steel at the chamber.

Plus it is far cheaper to not mill the "hubs" off. Just polish them a little. And did they pass that savings on to the shooter... The bean counters decided to double the price for the "less work receiver".

Have not read whether Winchester does any "special" heat treatment to the "Big Bore" frame.

But I do know this... A caliber 38 255 grain cast or 50-50 smacking any critter at 1550 fps will do it mortal harm. So do not under rate the "lowly" 38-55. Boxcars of corn crunchers were slaughtered in the early 1900's through out the northern states with the 38-55 loaded not with smokeless but BP with the 255 grainer chugging along at 1250 fps. So if 1250 fps was far more than enough to "thwap" deer and hundreds of bears 1550 fps has all the icing with a couple cherries on top.
From bunnies with round ball to nasty bitty critters with 240 grainers caliber 38 rifles will and still do get it done.
Caliber 35's are OK also and I have some ... but bigger holes are always better.
Mike in Peru

[ulav8r]

At one time, the hi speed load for 38-55 in modern guns was a 255 grain bullet at 1800 fps. I think it came out in the 30's or so, for use in newer 94, Marlins, etc. Not a shabby load at all, and easily bettered by the Ranch Dog loads referenced above. I like the Hodgdon 4895 load at 1943fps and a Pmax of 33,300? ? because it doesn't state PSI or CUP.

That seems to be plenty of energy at a low pressure. Not knowing the age of your rifle, I would not recommend starting with the max loads shown that exceed 40K Pmax. When chambering have Jess target the lower end of headspace tolerance. I would also want the locking bolt to be as tight as possible in its mortise, much more important if you want to use loads over 40k pressure than if you stay under that.

[bearcove]

I thank you all for your thoughts on this project. I understand most's hesitation on the grizzlies with these caliber's, but a lot of big bears have been taken with a lot less! Anyway Nrut thank you very much for the info you posted. I've been looking at that mold quite a bit but never seen the load data you included. I'm really leaning toward the 38-55. For one it's an original cartridge that was black powder, and two the more research I do on the 3 cartridges I listed the more 2 of them shine, the 35-30 and the 38-55. The thing that sways me to the 38-55 is the .375+ diameter boolit that it throws vs the .358 diameter of the 35-30. I'm not set on anything yet and still have a lot more research to do but thank you all for your thoughts. Thanks Justin

A 35 rem/35-30 is weak for bear unless loaded to higher than sammi for sure. A 38-55 will do a good job with a 275 gr boolit pushed hard IMO. Most folks will tell you how it KNOCKS down Deer. But you are not talking about 150-200 lb deer.

Neither would be my first choice for a mad bear or moose. But both beat the hell out of a 30-30. My beach guns for getting out from the boat to fish are 45 cal or a 375 ruger. I prefer the Ruger cause the kids go with me now.

[OverMax]

If all Alaska's peoples hunt like the Alaskan Bush People I've seen on TV. Any of the listed calibers meet the need.

[Kestrel4k]

If all Alaska's peoples hunt like the Alaskan Bush People I've seen on TV. Any of the listed calibers meet the need.
I'm from Alaska, and none of Alaska's people hunt like the people on TV, lol. ;)

[MarkP]

38-55............. compare it to a 44 Magnum, the 38-55 has more velocity and a higher sectional density.

[mud_alaska]

Thanks again for the information you all are providing. Missionary5155 thank you for the information about Winchester using stock 94's for their testing with the 375. I have never heard of that till you posted it! I read a bit about a guy here in Alaska that had Jess rebore his trusted model 94 30-30 to 375 and just doesn't run it at full tilt. He has nothing but good to say about the gun, and rebore that Jess did. I think from my reading & reloading experience that the 38-55 w/ the 2.125 starline brass should be plumb safe to load to low end 375 velocity/psi in my post 64' model 94 Winchester top eject. Bearcove I understand what you are saying about the 30wcf however I have no problem taking moose with it. I have killed 2 moose each with 1 shot from my marlin glenfield 30wcf using lee 170 grain mold wich my boolits come out w/ lube & checks @ 173 grains and cronograph at 2,156 fps using leverevolution powder. OverMax if you believe what them yahoos are doing on tv than I feel very sorry for you. They are nothing but a joke and Kestrel4k is rite on the money about how we hunt in AK. Thanks again for all your opinions and thoughts on this project. Thanks Justin