Hi guys, 500 S&W midrange loads

[TMenezes]

Hi guys, just wanted to bring up loading the 500 S&W. I recently purchased a 500 S&W BFR revolver and looked here and elsewhere for midrange loads. I didn't find nearly as much info as I do for more common calibers so thought I would share my experience for others who may find themselves in my situation. I knew I wanted a 50 Cal but also knew I didn't need all the 500 S&W had to offer with its huge case and high 60k max psi. I was actually looking for a 500 JRH but the lack of brass and reloading info was a problem.

So I bought a used 500 S&W BFR for $735 and went about looking for less than full power data. Problem was the most common data for that was using Unique or Tightgroup powder which barely puts any mass in the case which has the possibility of double or even triple charges going unnoticed.

I ended up using starting data for IMR 4227 and found that it filled the case nicely, did well with putting plenty of power downrange, but still had very manageable recoil. In fact I was able to fire it one handed. After hearing about how vicious the recoil would be I was actually nervous to pull the trigger. I found out due to the fairly heavy mass of the revolver coupled with the fact that the pressure was only around 44 Mag levels that it was actually very enjoyable to shoot.

For load info I am using Lyman data. Cross checked with Hodgdon's data.

350 gr Berry's plated using 37.1 gr IMR 4227 (they start at 37.3, but my powder throw settled on 37.1 so I just went with that) with an overall length of 1.985

They claim it's in the 1500 fps range which is plenty enough for me. I didn't check it over my chrono but plan to at my next range session. Accuracy was good as I was hitting very close to point of aim and forming nice small groups. My next outing I plan to bring the chrono and a tape measure. This first outing was very informal and just to see if I even liked the gun and ammo. Turns out I loved it and am very much looking forward to getting it out there again.

For the next outing I have more of the same load plus a load of 40gr H-110 under the same 350gr Berry bullet at the same 1.985 oal. So more to follow and just want to let other new to 500 S&W guys out there know it's a fun gun to shoot.

[leftiye]

"Hi guys, 16 inch naval cannon midrange-" (though if I had one I MIGHT load it down)

[Tatume]

The 500 S&W cartridge always struck me as remarkably similar in appearance to the 50-70 Government cartridge. The 50-70 is a little bit shorter, which would raise pressure if load data were substituted. On the other hand, the guns for the 50-70 weren't as strong as modern 500 S&W guns either. So, if I were looking for powder-puff data (relatively speaking) for the 500 S&W, I would consider 50-70 sources. That might at least help identify appropriate powders. Here's one source:

https://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/article.cfm?magid=18&tocid=220

Take care, Tom

[TMenezes]

Lol Leftover, but seriously threds I was finding mostly fell into 2 camps.

There was the "hey I just bought a 500 and want it to recoil less than my Daisy BB gun, think 5gr of Trail Boss would work"

And then there was the "This caliber is rated to 60psi and if you don't load to max then your just a sissy an shouldn't be allowed to have a 500"

Looking back on it it wasn't all bad but that's what it seemed like at the time :-)

[44man]

I fall into the last. Why buy a real gun when you want a .38 S&W?
I don't want a .500 S&W because the JRH covers anything on earth. But I shoot to what my guns were made for since they are for hunting. I have shot many .500 S&W guns and they are not bad at all. But weight needs a turret mount.
I load for accuracy and don't care what velocity is, might be just below max or at max. Maybe even over book. You buy a .454, .460, .475 or .500 and look for kitty cat loads. To be a man means you shoot them that way. A .454 is not a .45 ACP.
It baffles me why some puff the chest with a huge gun and want to shoot it like a .22.

[TMenezes]

I fall into the last. Why buy a real gun when you want a .38 S&W?
I don't want a .500 S&W because the JRH covers anything on earth. But I shoot to what my guns were made for since they are for hunting. I have shot many .500 S&W guns and they are not bad at all. But weight needs a turret mount.
I load for accuracy and don't care what velocity is, might be just below max or at max. Maybe even over book. You buy a .454, .460, .475 or .500 and look for kitty cat loads. To be a man means you shoot them that way. A .454 is not a .45 ACP.
It baffles me why some puff the chest with a huge gun and want to shoot it like a .22.

You see what I am talking about! My current load is a straight out of the book load for straight up 500 S&W and not a reduced load. Time will give me the opportunity to work up to whatever my gun likes but right from the start 44 man shows exactly what I said lol. Just teasing you 44 man, I respect your opinion and am sure I will find a sweet spot for my gun probably using 4227 or H-110. I do have MP300 but figure I'll work with the other 2 powders first.

As far as the size of the gun, yea it's big but hey it's a range toy so who cares. I may try it on a wild boar hunt but honestly I don't get time to hunt much since I had kids and already have plenty of guns that are already more than capable of taking a pig so no rush there.

Anyone have any pet loads for this caliber?

[PositiveCaster]

I just don't get the fear many handloaders have of "double charges" with faster powders. Many many millions of .45 ACP and .38 Special cartridges have been loaded with tiny charges of Bullseye for many decades, and those target shooters weren't scared of a double charge. Yet now for - some reason - we handloaders have become stupid and careless and are terrified of making a mistake.

Next we'll have to limit ourselves to one powder which is "safe" in every gun we own because if we accidently use H110 in our .30-06 we will die. Nope, we just have to take responsibility for our actions and be aware of what happens if we make a mistake.

BTW OP, no one bothered to mention it, but using H110 for reduced loads is a bad idea. It is intended for high high density use and the manufacturer cautions not to load much below max levels.


.

[44man]

My friend John sold his short barrel Smith and got a longer one. He is the same and can't take the heavy loads so he found Tite Group and has loads to try tomorrow.
Now he does not hunt at all. I do not know why he buys big guns. He shoots, looks at me crossed eyed and shakes his hand. Tells me to shoot the rest. He can't justify because he never shoots far either.
His wife makes more money then he does as an aircraft mechanic so his pay is play money and he does spend for things he does not need. He has guns I have no need for. A big toy shop!
Now the trouble is, most big guns will not shoot mouse loads, never designed for them. Even the .44 will not shoot heavy boolits slow.
It was funny yesterday when my neighbor was talked into shooting my 45-70 BFR, he was afraid and did have the barrel hit his cap brim. He is skinny and flinched from the bags to hit low. The monster gun has less recoil then my .44 but he was intimidated by it. He wanted to know why until he seen what it can do. He will not shoot my JRH or .475. I bought them to make use of them but larger does not fit where I hunt. The big, bad .500 smith means a bag full of sponges to eat for steak. It is a "T" Rex gun. It is a manly gun that most can't handle.
Yet the modern revolver and steels are amazing. Who ever thought Weatherby pressures in a revolver? Life is good.
Buy what you want but don't wimp out.

[rockrat]

My BFR in 50ae is all my hand wants nowadays. Now, when I was a lot younger the 500 S&W would have been on my list, but now at 60+ and carpal tunnel issues, some days, heavy 44 special loads are more than enough. Heck, some days 45acp is plenty. Tried some loads in my 50ae the other day using a .501 round ball. Worked pretty well.

[TMenezes]

To Mister PositiveCaster, no one mentioned it because I didn't and would never download with H-110. None of my 500 S&W loads are downloaded as I clearly stated.

If you check the manuels I listed you will find they are book loads. H-110 is listed for my 350gr slug at 38.8gr starting load to 40gr max according to Lyman. Hodgdon goes abit hotter listing 39gr start and 43gr max. My chosen starting point at 40gr is NOT a download according to Lyman and Hodgdon.

As to using a bulky powder for large cased calibers it's just easier for me to visually verify every case has the appropriate amount of powder in it. It's a common safety precaution that I and many others use to produce good quality ammo.

Also as a side note all magnum pistol powders tend to take allot of space anyways and that's the only type of powder that's going into my 500. I didn't buy a 500 to feed it tiny amounts of fast pistol powder.

[TMenezes]

Hey 44man, I usually use H-110 in my 44mag. But a found 300MP for $13.25 a pound at Widener's. It was such a good price I risked it and ordered 10 pounds of it.

Have you ever tried this stuff and if so what did you think of it?

[leftiye]

What little I have seen makes it about like 110/296 - until you get to the really heavy boolits. Then it seems to assume a sort of second life and performs miracles. Where you would expect much over pressure to occur it pushes some eye opening velocities.

[44man]

Hey 44man, I usually use H-110 in my 44mag. But a found 300MP for $13.25 a pound at Widener's. It was such a good price I risked it and ordered 10 pounds of it.

Have you ever tried this stuff and if so what did you think of it?
I never tried it yet, very hard to find powders here. It should work with the heavy boolits I shoot.
I have never loaded for velocity and once I pass what groups, I go back, might never run the guns over my chronograph.
My friend can't make it until Sun, if his loads work, I will let you know.

[lightload]

I've never loaded for this cartridge but have a suggestion should you decide to down load the 500. Consider Herco, which is slower than Unique and not as pressure sensitive as some others.

[kmrra]

I use H110 and I like that powder but read the warning for the 500 , you have to go by the book they stress about reduced loads with this powder , you could get pressure problems when you do , so they say in the book, I havent seen this on any other cal that I load with H110 but the 500 I use 43 g of H110 and that just about equals what a factry load Magtech is with a smaller bullet Iuse a 325 and mag tech uses a 440 , very pelesant to shoot I use a good leather glove with the trigger finger cut off , with out it 5 rounds and your hand is stinging

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Hi guys, 500 S&W midrange loads

Hi guys, just wanted to bring up loading the 500 S&W. I recently purchased a 500 S&W BFR revolver and looked here and elsewhere for midrange loads. I didn't find nearly as much info as I do for more common calibers so thought I would share my experience for others who may find themselves in my situation. I knew I wanted a 50 Cal but also knew I didn't need all the 500 S&W had to offer with its huge case and high 60k max psi.


...SNIP
Did you find John Ross's website, He has lots of load data, that'd I'd define as midrange. He utilizes Rifle powder, which would be typically slow for a pistol, but generally the loads are at or near 100% fill.

[Moonie]

The lyman 49 manual I have has load data that I would classify as middle of the road.

[bns454]

The Accurate powder company manual has a variety of midrange and reduced loads.Also as stated above find the John Ross article using rifle powders.

[44man]

True about H110/296, never download for ANY caliber. It is a little hard to ignite and airspace from the primer moving the powder too far can cause it to fail.
I needed .444 loads for Accurate powders and the site did not have but one. I E mailed them and they sent a full page of loads. Came from Ramshot customer Service, nice people. Usually if you can't find what you want the powder companies are happy to help.
We got the .444 to shoot great even with the slower twist of the old gun. Lighter boolit works.
The BFR in .500 should shoot lighter loads since the twist is 1 in 15" but once you get to the heavy weight boolits, you need to move them more. Really not much more then lighter as velocity will be close but recoil climbs.
I love my 45-70 even as a crew served thing that they emptied the steel mill to make.

[44man]

We shot all from a light 350 I believe, darn I didn't write it down. used 16 gr of Tite Group and still a hefty thumper. Went to my 440 gr and some make of 480's that look almost exactly like mine, with heavy loads.
All shot decent at 50 but the heavy boolits hit 14" high and the light ones about 6" high. Needs a higher front sight. I figured .082" more to start. Why it came with a 1/4" sight, I don't know. Rear sight is bottomed out.
The cylinder unlocked with the heavy loads but just barely, told John to ask for a heavy stop spring too.
Still does not equal a BFR. It will take more work before a decision can be made on the X frame. Trigger breaks clean but about 3X more then I like. The hammer drops like slo mo, weak strike that failed to fire one primer as it sat the primer.
I don't think I will be buying an X frame.

[Doggonekid]

I try to never red line any of my loads. There are too many variables. I don't down load any of my big guns because I bought them to be a hand cannon. I load most of my big guns around 90%. I do find it funny that the powder I use most for my big guns is Lil Gun. I started using this power when H110 could not be found in this part of the woods. I enjoy shooting my SW500 mag and the 460 mag. It is fun to see someone shoot a gun like that for the first time. When they get a big grin and ask if they can shoot the rest of the cylinder I know that maybe I might be creating another monster.

[44man]

Lil'Gun scares me because of heat. I don't know what it does in the larger calibers. It was accurate but 12 slow shots made a .357 Freedom so hot I could not touch the barrel.
My interest is what you experience in the .500.
I say a lot of things about powders like the 4227's that do not work in the .44 mag. It becomes very sensitive to gun heat in the .44 but does not do it in the .357 max. Then powders fail with barrel length but are super with rifles. Powders that work in shorter barrels can fail in longer ones.
All guns are different too. Yet my loads have worked in every brand. Not heavy boolits in the S&W of course but 240 to a max of 265 gr are spot on in the .44.
The X frame is up in the air for me. I have shot 4 and am not impressed yet. More felt recoil and sensitive to hold. Barrel rise and torque can be felt differently every shot. I will forever be a hog leg shooter and even a Bisley eats dust.

[Doggonekid]

I don't experience any excess heat in my 500. I shoot Lil Gun in my 500 SW Mag. 35 grains with a 400 grain HP from a NOE mold. It shoots cans and paper targets at 25 to 50 yards. I like shooting rocks at about 100 yards. It seems to do the trick. I took this load deer hunting last year and never got a chance to shoot at a deer. 44man I have seen some of the targets you have posted. I'm not that good but I am better than the average guy with a hand cannon. I like 4227 in my .475 Linebaugh. I shoot a 400 grain WFN from LBT. My FA 83 is harder to control than my X frame.

[44man]

Good to hear. Why 4227 does what it does in the .44 can't be explained.

[TMenezes]

If I do buy an X frame it will be a John Ross model. I sent him a PM to see if he was interested in doing another special order group buy as he has in the past.

Sad there is so little info / interest in 300 MP, I got it for a steal at $13.25 and I saw it on special yesterday for $12.75 or so at Widener's. I know their shipping is high but throw in a few other powders / primers and it's still a great buy.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

If I do buy an X frame it will be a John Ross model. I sent him a PM to see if he was interested in doing another special order group buy as he has in the past.

Sad there is so little info / interest in 300 MP, I got it for a steal at $13.25 and I saw it on special yesterday for $12.75 or so at Widener's. I know their shipping is high but throw in a few other powders / primers and it's still a great buy.
I swapped my 4" X-frame a couple years ago, I really hated the swap-a-Comp design. I'd probably jump on a comp-free 5" John Ross x-frame gun, if I stumbled onto an available one.

[TMenezes]

Just back from the range and dam it I forgot to take the chrono. I am a Rangemaster / Firearms instructor and have so much **** to take to the range I keep forgetting the freaking chrono! For my regular loads in the 500 S&W I am really liking IMR 4227. For my balls to the wall loads I usually like H110 but this Alliant 300MP is freaking nuts. No matter how much powder I dump in my primers are still looking good. Today I took a ladder of 45gr up to 48gr 300MP under a 350gr slug and while the recoil and firebal was certainly impressive there is no pressure signs at all.

But speaking of fireball, today was night qualifications for us so I was able to get footage of the huge 4 foot fireball that looked more like dragon fire!

[cainttype]

I have a friend that enjoys IMR 4759 in his 500 S&W. Downloading it should present no problems and it takes up quite a bit of case capacity, so it appears to fit your criteria well.

There's nothing wrong with having moderate loads worked up for your big guns. It only adds versatility to a tool... It makes sense in "hand cannons" as much as it makes sense in centerfire rifles.

[TMenezes]

I would love to try IMR 4759 but can't find any. If someone wants to help me out with a couple pounds of it I would be very grateful ��

I could swap some HP38, True Blue, H110, Trail Boss, 700X, HS7, or 300MP... Maybe a few others, I'd have to go look.

[TMenezes]

I asked John Ross if he had any more of his special run of S&W 500's and he does! This is his response in case anyone else is interested.

Dealer cost on Ross Edition 5" .500s is now $1495 + $40 shipping. Both finishes available NIB.

Check and FFL to

John Ross
7600 Clayton Rd.
St. Louis, MO 63117

[olafhardt]

I took a different path on the big 500. Years ago I read an article by C.E. Harris about walking around rifles. The idea was to load a single shot pistol caliber rifle to an almost silent subsonic velocity and tote it around to bust critters that you decided to bust. He recommended slow blunt nose boolits at low velocity. Somehow I became intrigued by this idea but in an enlarged caliber. A light loaded 500 S&W Handirifle seemed just the ticket so I bought one. At that time load data and components were scares. Brian Pearce had published some data wiich included a load of 16 grains of Tightgroup under a 440 grain gaschecked boolit. This is actually a respectable hunting load out of a Handi. Fooling around and reading I came to the conclusion that 16 grains of any fast pistol powder could be used in the 500 and half of that would be a suitable walking around load with any of the Lee 50 caliber muzzle loader projectiles one of which is the Mother of All Hollowbased Wadcutters. I think it is the improved or modern wadcutter. I load this over 7.0 grains of Unique. If I goof up and double charge, I am still below max charge.

[Cold Trigger Finger]

I wonder how Rl 7 or 4198 would work in the 500 S&W with a 440 gr bullet ?,?