Why not more spitzer designs?

[RU shooter]

Why is it that I dont hear of more people shooting pointy spitzer shaped boolits such as the 311329,365,397 ? I know they are not the proper boolit for hunting but for paper only the seem like they would have a good BC for 200 yd target shooting. Ive been thinking on something like this design for a plain base long range boolit . Why dont I hear more about the spitzer boolits ?

Tim

[felix]

Tim, there is so little area for the rifling to grab onto when using a good target projectile. The harder the projectile is, the more straight it will get into the guts of the barrel. A boolit with a large bearing area will have a better chance to straighten up enough to shoot an inch or two, more often the latter than the former. Not so for a target boolit with a condom profile using a typical store bought gun with its inherent errors. ... felix

[Blammer]

in other words, the nose is not fat enough....

[grouch]

For what it's worth, 311365 does have a bearing well onto the nose and shoots quite well up to 300 metres or so - but in general FMR and Blammer are right. Many pointy bullets have been poorly designed.
Read what LBT (Veral Smith) has to say about bullet design and look at the Paul Jones moulds designs - they usually own the single shot matches.
NEI and CBE both have pointy wasp - waisted plain based .458 diameter bullets for long range black powder shooting that look good.

Grouch

[Maven]

Many of Veral Smith's (LBT) CB rifle designs are spitzers, but with a long[er] bearing surface. Sized to fit your throat & bbl., they are very accurate.

[redneckdan]

Even the lee HBC which has quite a long bearing surface can be kind of tricky.

[DonH]

In .32-40, I shoot at 200 yds a Barry Darr designed plain-based spitzer form bullet. It is very accurate. Dimensions are as follows: o.a.l., 1.230"; base dia, .322", tapering to .314" at the front lube groove which is where the ogive begins. Bearing length is .625". Weight is 220 grains.
I believe this bullet was designed in conjunction with an Oehler 43 ballistic lab system. The bullet has a high B.C. and shoots considerably flatter than previous designs used in single shot rifle shooting. It also suffers considerably less wind drift. An additional benefitis that this form of bullet seems to "fool" the rifling twist, allowing use of a heavier bullet than would normally be used for a given twist. My 220 gr spitzer shoots great from my 14" twist barrel. Velocity is ca. 1450 fps.
If I had a camera and knew how I would post a picture. Perhaps Dale53 is using a similar bullet and could post a picture?

[Bret4207]

The short bearing length also allows more chance for the boolit to be seated off center. Think "Tumbling Tumbleweeds"!!! The Loverin designs with sharp noses and long bearing length don't have this problem.

[joeb33050]

Why is it that I dont hear of more people shooting pointy spitzer shaped boolits such as the 311329,365,397 ? I know they are not the proper boolit for hunting but for paper only the seem like they would have a good BC for 200 yd target shooting. Ive been thinking on something like this design for a plain base long range boolit . Why dont I hear more about the spitzer boolits ?

Tim

Why? I think because dimensions drifted off at Lyman, and those spitzers just didn't shoot. In 1960 the most popular 30 caliber bullet was 308/311 413, a spitzer looking bullet. Many shot them very well to 600 yards. I had several molds, never got it to shoot, got pissed off and gave up. There are a lot of guys my age who will tell the same story about 308/311 413 not shooting.
The French-designed SS rifle pointed bullets also didn't shoot when the mold was "later".
From this kind of experience we gained a prejudice against pointed bullets, went to 311291, 31141 and the Loverin bullets, which are a pure PITA to cast soft. Points were out.
Then Lyman's 311299 and 314299 got cooking, pointed but not sharp bullets, and at least some molds/cavities shoot very well.
Something happened to Lyman's dimensions, correct dimensions shoot fine.
I also have a Borton/Darr spitzer, 30 caliber, and it shoots just great. 1.128" long, tapered from .3003/3008 to .3083/.3096 from the nose to rear band.
It's all about the dimensions, not much about the shape.
joe b.

[joeb33050]

From "THE BREECH LOADING SINGLE SHOT MATCH RIFLE", Ned Roberts and Ken Waters, page 150-written by Roberts, it looks like.
" Very few scheutzen rifles of any caliber give nice accuracy with any type of pointed bullet, although the "French" 32-40 pointed 181 grain bullet was designed by that expert rifleman W. H. French especially for use in these rifles. I have tried that bullet in Ballard, Maynard and Winchester match rifles, but never succeeded in getting it to make nice groups in any of these rifles. Another pointed bullet of peculiar shape in 32-40 and 38-55 calibers- the "Carver" bullet-was designed by James W. Carver, an expert rifleman years ago, especially for fine accuracy in Ballard and Maynard rifles. Carver bullets were paper-patched, and, on several occasions about the year 1900, I saw Carver make very small 10-shot and 20-shot groups at 200 yards rest with his bullets in his 32-40 and 38-55 Ballard rifles. Theoretically, a pointed bullet should have an advantage over a flat-nose or round-nose bullet in a match rifle, but we do not find this to be true in actual practice and all the most highly accurate rifles of this type invariably give their best accuracy with bullets having a flat nose like the Pope, Schoyen, Zischang, and Hudson bullets."

I still contend that it's the dimensions, not the shape.

joe b.

[smokemjoe]

I got one in 22 cal. long point. made for the 220 Swift, only shot okey in one - 22Hornet. Joe