I'm going to change the way I "do lead"

[Cloudpeak]

Well, I guess I've been doing it wrong. When I first started casting, I just melted wheel weights in a little Ohaus cast iron pot, fluxed, then dipped and poured. After spending a lot of time looking at old messages on Cast Boolits it seems the smart way to do things is melt a lot of wheel weights, flux and clean up the metal well and pour into ingots for later use. I guess I thought melting WW, cleaning metal and pouring was more effecient. Just handling the metal once, IOW. But it seems that I spend a lot of time fluxing, adding WW, melting fluxing, etc. I think this may be one reason my pot gets so cruddy and why I have to spend so much time skimming & trying to keep the metal clean.

So, my new plan is to quit my old ways. I found a post about cheap hot plates at Walmart. 1100 watt burner for $8.94. If I buy a big enough steel pot, I imagine this would be enough wattage to do a good job of melting a big bunch of WW? I plan on cleaning the metal and pouring the lead into muffin pans. I think this would be faster and more effecient than using my Lyman 4 ingot mold. I plan on skimming metal clips with a big dipper with holes in it as opposed to skimming with my tiny dipper/pourer which should save a bunch of time.

I plan on buying a Lee electric pot so I can pour lead from the bottom. It looks like you would get nothing but clean metal with this method as opposed to using a dipper on the top surface of the melt. Comments?
It also seems like this would be faster than pouring from a dipper.

So, a few questions:

Do I want a pot that's tall or short? The Lee Pro 20 looks kind of low and the Pro 4-20, Production Pot 4 and production pot look tall so it would be easy to get my 6 cavity mold into place. Any recommendations on which Lee pot? (I need to keep costs low, hence Lee)

Do you still have to flux and skim if you're putting pre-fluxed and cleaned ingots in the electric, bottom pour pot?

Do you drain the remaining lead from the electric pot when you're done casting?

Thanks, Cloudpeak

[SharpsShooter]

IMHO Smelting WW in quantity is the way to go. Sure, your method is efficient, but it would add a lot of time to a casting session. I look at it this way: Smelting is just a singe step to clean and prep the alloy so that when you sit down to cast boolits you can concentrate on just that objective.

If you go with a bottom pour, keep in mind that it is difficult to cast heavy boolits consistently. Buy the largest pot your budget allows and it will serve you well. The larger pots maintain their temperature better for longer casting sessions and that in turn produces a better boolit and you have less rejected casts. I use a bottom pour to cast 450gr 45-70 stuff and it works fine.

:coffee:

[carpetman]

Cloudpeak---My preference for the smelting is not to use electrical heating. For one reason,it needs to be done outdoors. A fairly small cast iron pot and a Coleman stove works well for me. I do find the ingots from a Lyman mold are more convenient than from a muffin pan. They stack easier and are easier to add to the pot. I got the Lee with extra clearance--don't know if needed or not.

[fourarmed]

Absolutely, go for the 4-20. We have both in our casting shack, and the low one is definitely restricted as to which molds it will take.

[9.3X62AL]

Dittoes to all the above, esp. Carpetman's advice. The 10# Lyman pot on the Coleman stove is a little slow, but I usually smelt in the garage while doing other things like clean guns or watch football games.

[mike in co]

its sorta about getting a "lot" of lead that behaves the same.
so the bigger the melt, the more consitant the mix, the more consistant the boolits.
a colman stove will support a 50 cal ammo can and easily melt 40-60 lb in one lot.

my preference is a strong turkey propane burner and a 50cal can....now we are talking 100 lbs easy.
i think the electrics are slow, limited and gonna be expensive at the end of the month when the bill comes in.
the gas stove is less than a half gallon for about 50 lbs, the propane is unknown at this time but so far i have done over 200 lbs and the $7 bottle(20lb) bottle aint empty yet.

[Old Jim]

I found a "6 quart" heavy aluminum sauce pan with a sturdy handle (garage sale $.50) that I use to process wheel weights.
I heat over a propane Coleman stove, add 1 " of unused old style(non-clumping) kitty litter to the pot to absorb oils and fumes, flux and pour into muffin tins. Harder to handle than Lee ingots but eight instead of four and cool quicker on a concrete floor. My muffins come out at about 2 lbs so any alloy computation becomes easy.

[powderburnerr]

your 11oo watt hot plate most likley has an overtemp switch that wouldn't let it get hot enough under a big pot .it would turn off the plate until it cooled off . ................. Dean

[Denver]

For a heat source, I bought a single burner gas stove from Harbor Freight. It puts out a good deal more heat than the coleman camp stove and only cost about $15. You need a regulator and a gas tank, but if you have a gas grill, you're all set. :Fire:

[slughammer]

I found a post about cheap hot plates at Walmart. 1100 watt burner for $8.94. If I buy a big enough steel pot, I imagine this would be enough wattage to do a good job of melting a big bunch of WW?

Actually sounds dangerous. Those hot plates are made up of a bunch of plastic in their construction. Catastrophic failure with a big pot of lead on board would be a bad thing.

[Cloudpeak]

For a heat source, I bought a single burner gas stove from Harbor Freight. It puts out a good deal more heat than the coleman camp stove and only cost about $15. You need a regulator and a gas tank, but if you have a gas grill, you're all set. :Fire:

That sounds like a plan. Much better than the electric hot plate. Plus, I'll never run out of propane when I'm cooking again.

Cloudpeak

[jballs918]

cloud,

i just went through what you are talking about. so i have figured out and the guys will back me up on thius on is to get a cheap turkey cooker, they are at walmart for 25 bone and i got a 10 cast iron dutch oven from habor for 14 bones. i paid under 40 dollars and i proably can do 100lbs plus at one shoot. also mini loaf pans are good for ingots and also mini muffins for small jobs like adding in your pot after you get it going. the only this that can cost you more money is if you dont have a tank. the cooker comes with a reg and hell you even get a nice pot and turkey cooker. fluxing not really sure about that yet still learning and alot of peeps seem to like the 4/20 lee. i have read like 4 different messageboards and they say its most likely the best bang for the buck. but this is just my 2 cents.

[Goatlips]

Cloudpeak,

This might give you some suggestions.

http://goatlipstips.cas-town.com/smelting.html

I have a little site under construction with the idea that a picture is worth more than a description, at least for me.

Goatlips

[versifier]

Goatlips,
Nice website! Good photos, clear, concise, and informative. Thanks for turning us onto it.
Tom

[45nut]

Indeed,Nice Job there. I started out with little to go on but conjecture and wive's tales. Reading books will get you there,eventually......but a picture is still worth a thousand words.

[keeper89]

Goatlips,
Great website! I sure wish I had had a resource like that 25 years ago--just thinking about all the fumes coming off those ww melts in the cellar in the electric pot for all those years--it's a wonder the chief didn't pack my stuff in the yard while I was at work one day!!! Outside batch processing is assuredly the ONLY way to go...........
:lovebooli

[shooter2]

your 11oo watt hot plate most likley has an overtemp switch that wouldn't let it get hot enough under a big pot .it would turn off the plate until it cooled off . ................. Dean

Right on! I have one that's similar and while it works well in the wood shop for hot melt glue, it is not hot enough for melting lead. Get a good gas burner like a Coleman stove. I use and old Cabela's Fish Cooker. Now they call them turkey cookers. Many years ago I ran across a 1.5 quart cast iron pot in an army surplus store. Perfect for the big smelting process.

[imashooter2]

I found a "6 quart" heavy aluminum sauce pan with a sturdy handle (garage sale $.50) that I use to process wheel weights.
-snip-


Aluminum pots for smelting are a safety hazard. They will fail without warning. It may seem like a good solid vessel, but one day it is going to leave you standing in a puddle of molten lead.

[BruceB]

For my smelting heat source, I use a Harbor Freight weed-burner which cost me about $11.00 a few years back.

I have a table outside just for this purpose, so I rig the burner in a vertical position through a hole cut in the table top. This way. the flame is evenly in contact with the entire bottom of the pot, which is made of 6"-diameter heavy-wall steel pipe with a bottom welded in and a bail and pouring spout added. It will melt wheelweights faster than I can fill the ingot moulds and empty them.

The burner is also still useable for weed-burning.

[Old Jim]

Aluminum pots for smelting are a safety hazard. They will fail without warning. It may seem like a good solid vessel, but one day it is going to leave you standing in a puddle of molten lead.

Didn't know that!!!

[Cloudpeak]

Lots of good stuff. Thanks guys. Goatlips: nice sight, very helpful.

Cloudpeak

[Goatlips]

RE: http://goatlipstips.cas-town.com/smelting.html

Thank you for the compliments from people whose opinions I greatly respect. Then again, this board is primarily responsible for getting me involved in this madness.... :mrgreen:

Goatlips

[drinks]

I have a magnet, about 1x1x2", I clamp this in a pair of vise-grips and use it to remove the clips, wear a welding glove on the left hand to pull the clips off the magnet, works fine.

[Cloudpeak]

I have a magnet, about 1x1x2", I clamp this in a pair of vise-grips and use it to remove the clips, wear a welding glove on the left hand to pull the clips off the magnet, works fine.

I'll bet the rare earth magnets would really work well. My youngest daughter has a few on her frig and you have to slide them over the edge of the frig & grab them. Almost need a pair of pliers.

Cloudpeak

[eli]

I use a Wal-Mart hot plate and a handle-less 6 qt stainless pot for smelting ww. One of the things I like about using the hot plate is that the temperature is easy to keep just low enough that I don't have to worry about melting zinc ww, into my alloy.

I also use a Harbor Freight meter (as recommended elsewhere on this forum) to keep an eye on the heating metal and a bit of loose foil over the pot in the initial heating phase, then flux and skim the pot until I have full load of metal.

I then cast nearly that entire melt in steel muffin tins, leaving only enough to help start the next batch of ww along.

I also stamp a lot number into the ingots of each pot load, just in case there is something wrong with the melt and to keep track of what I'm doing. It sounds like a lot of work, but that's just not so.

The Wal-Mart hot plate has yet to give me any trouble and is sturdy enough so far for the size melts I'm doing. I would NOT want to use a larger pot on this unit though; there has to be a limit to what it would support safely and I don't ever want to find out what that limit is. Turkey sized pots are a non-starter for me.

All told, I have maybe $40 into this set-up and though I might want to go larger in the future, this works just fine for now.

Cheers

[SharpsShooter]

Nice website Goatlips! That would have been handy to have when I got started in this quagmire of fun

[boogerred]

heres my setup- a single burner propane stove and a 2 qt stainless dog bowl for smelting,candles and slotted spoon for fluxing and skimming,mini-muffin pans for ingots,a hot plate for preheating my molds. i have a lee10# and the mini-muffins fit better and melt faster than the brick type ingots. my setup works for the amout of shooting i do now. i personally drain my bottom pour and i give it a good brushing and a blow out before i use it again.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
I thank you for the Al pot warning. Never did it but might have someday.
What I do now is fill old #10 coffe cans w/ WW ( they hold 10 lbs) put it on an electric burner on high outside. Flux & stir w/ a 1&1/2' spoon, dip out the clips. Then pore ingots as I put a 2nd #10 can on to melt. Can also cast while its melting.

[grumble]

HI,
I thank you for the Al pot warning. Never did it but might have someday.
What I do now is fill old #10 coffe cans w/ WW ( they hold 10 lbs) put it on an electric burner on high outside. Flux & stir w/ a 1&1/2' spoon, dip out the clips. Then pore ingots as I put a 2nd #10 can on to melt. Can also cast while its melting.

How are the seams of tin cans sealed? It used to be with solder, but lead-phobia stopped that in the '60s. No concern these days of the seams coming apart with heat?

[StarMetal]

I thought the seam on old tin cans was soldered with TIN, not lead solder.

Joe

[imashooter2]

How are the seams of tin cans sealed? It used to be with solder, but lead-phobia stopped that in the '60s. No concern these days of the seams coming apart with heat?

I believe the cans that still have a seam are all welded these days.

[eli]

"I believe the cans that still have a seam are all welded these"

I may be way off base here, but I seem to recall hearing that a chemical process is sometimes used to seal the seams of some cans.

Living in this age of cheap, plentiful seamless stainless steel containers I can not see taking any risk at all with a pot full of molten metal. Those free coffee cans might end up being one really expensive and dangerous choice.

Cheers

[nighthunter]

My Dad was a cable splicer for the phone co. many years ago. He taught me a lot his tricks in preparing the melt that he dealt with daily when all cable joints where wrapped in and wiped with lead. He used to stir the lead with a tightly wrapped section of newspaper. The paper would char and burn layer by layer and produce a beautiful mirror like top of the pot. He then showed me how to pour the cable sheathing into ingets later to be added to wheel weights and tin to pour cast bullets. I've never forgotten his lessons and today make bullets that I love to shoot as much as I did those bullets 40 some years ago when Dad was in better health and could shoot with the best of 'em.
Nighthunter

[Idahoser]

We've been wanting to get a Coleman stove anyway, for disaster prep. We had decided a dual-fuel made more sense than propane in the event that supplies became hard to come by, because coleman fuel isn't pressurized and gasoline will be stocked. I've alse heard that propane has a lower specific impulse (I think that's the right name), or whatever you call it that means you get more energy from a given quantity or something like that.

Anyway, two questions: is a dual-fuel stove okay too; and does it ruin the stove for cooking to melt lead on it? (I KNOW IT RUINS THE POT!)

[shooter575]

Idahoser I would not use stove for food after it was used for cooking lead.May not hurt a old dog like me,but would not be safe for others[kids] etc. I used a old coleman white gas stove for a while.The propane turkey cooker with a cast iron pot is the way to go IMHO. Melts the fastest.