Marlin 444 with large slow bullets

[andym79]

Hi guys, I am thinking of getting a 444marlin setup with a 1:20" barrel.

I want to shoot large bullets 300+ grains at pretty low velocity 1000-1300fps, does anyone have experience with this?

I am very keen to hear!

[Hickory]

The newer Marlin 444 are everything the 1894 Marlin 44 magnum is not.
If you will be shooting much over 100 yards you might need to up the velocity a bit.

[andym79]

I was hoping that like the 40-65 and 45-70 accuracy could be maintained with low velocity?

[44man]

It should work. My friend has an old 1 in 38" twist and even 240 factory loads are sad.
Seems 75 yards is max.

[GhostHawk]

I have been shooting the Lee .430 310 gr gas checked wide meplat round nose in mine.

Over 13 grains of Red Dot it was amazingly accurate. Cloverleaf's at 25 and 50 yards while zeroing the scope. Would have had one at 100 yards but I pulled one shot up and left an inch.

Love mine, it is in a H&R single shot. I don't shoot it much, saving it for when I want something not just dead, but dead right now right there.

Pick a load that works for you. Then run the data through a ballistic calculator. Make yourself a cheat sheet. At 150 yards hold X and 200 need Y. Then it is just a matter of practice.

[ioon44]

I have a older 444 and have shot 180 gr to 300 gr jacked out to 100 yards with good results, I have some 300 gr LBT with Hi-Tek coating that I want to try when I get the time.

[44man]

Now if you want some fun, get a BFR revolver. It has a 1 in 16" twist. Should shoot any boolit ever made.
I have the 45-70 with a 1 in 14" and it will out shoot my 1 in 18" BPCR all day at any distance.
Now 1 in 20" is fine for a .44 and the .444 can shoot heavier boolits then my SBH, yet my 330 gr has done 1-5/16" at 200 yards. I never checked the velocity of the boolit but a 320 LBT is 1316 fps and the Lee 310 is a tad more. All are tack drivers. The 265 RD is deadly with 3/4" at 50 and 1-1/4" at 100.
Hornady bullets did 1/2" at 50 all day, XTP most accurate ever made but the 240 SIL great. The 300 XTP will match accuracy. With the 240 SIL, I had a group of 3/4" at 200 meters.
I am a twist nut as all here know, too important to ignore.
The S&W 29's have a 1 in 18-3/4 so watching bullets fly, I seen a corkscrew around the flight path with 240's but they still shot 1/2" at 50. Go to a 250 gr and the flight was perfectly straight.
You can work with a faster twist but never a slow one.
Yes many say the .44 Marlin will shoot but 2 years of hard work I sold the thing. They sent me Greenhill papers when I complained. Why did they use Greenhill for the .44's and not all other calibers?
Maybe Rem will bring it back with a better twist.
Marlin only had a 2 year warranty.

[Traffer]

My brother has an old Marlin 444 with the slow twist. He doesn't use it. Is it possible to re-barrel these guys with a decent barrel? Would it be foolish because of the cost? Could it be re-barreled to a 45/70? If I could make this into a 45/70 with a decent twist rate I might take it off of his hands.

[quilbilly]

My 444 shoots 260 gr SWC-pb at 1200 fps wonderfully.

[andym79]

So the 1:20" is definitely to go for larger bullets?

"I have been shooting the Lee .430 310 gr gas checked wide meplat round nose in mine.

Over 13 grains of Red Dot it was amazingly accurate"

Do you know what kind of velocity that's at?

[tdoyka]

The 444 Marlin® (http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/444-marlin/)
these guys from the 444 marlin forum are great.

444 Master Reload Table revised Nemo-7e.xls (https://www.dropbox.com/s/9s7sgep5x82ifc3/444%20Master%20Reload%20Table%20revised%20Nemo-7e.xls?dl=0#)
i own a 444 marlin in my tc encore. it has a 1 in 20" barrel. i like the 275gr ranch dog and the 280gr wfn gc with rel7.

[GhostHawk]

Andym79 sorry sir but not for sure no. No chrony here.

If I had to make a wild guess I would put it in the 1500 to 1600 fps range. Plenty fast enough.
At that rate over 500 rounds from a single pound of powder. Or roughly 4.5 cents worth of powder, another 3-4 cents for primer. Slow enough if your listening you can hear the ZOOP as the cast boolit goes down the barrel changing pitch.

[Digital Dan]

Andy, I've been shooting a 320 gr RN at 1030 fps from a 20" twist Ruger. It likes 12.5 gr 2400 w/LPP. 5 in one hole at 50, expecting MOA or better at 100. Brooks mould, 30:1 alloy. Sized .430" w/ Alox.

[tdoyka]

i've shot a 250gr mihek hp(40:1 alloy) using 11.5gr of unique(somewhere around 1200fps) at 100 yards.
444 marlin
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h273/tdoyka/IMG_20160425_123427_zpsspfpxhb1.jpg (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/tdoyka/media/IMG_20160425_123427_zpsspfpxhb1.jpg.html)

i use the 250gr hp more for my 44 mag but it can do a 444 rather well.

[44man]

OK, we shot the .444 today and I was impressed even with the slow twist. It shot the 265 RD very well indeed but we just shot 50 yards. Many shots just made the hole bigger.
4198 did a good job as did AA 2230. 5744 was sad.
Rem factory 240's also shot super.
Now I don't know what it would do with heavier 300+ boolits but we will try later. I think the heavy boolits were what bear hunters, etc wanted.
My neighbor hit a small water bottle and the cap from a spray can at 100 with the Rem loads but I also did with the 45-70 BFR. The factory loads were a different lot then we shot last and had real Rem bullets.
I worked the trigger for him after and it should do better. When the gun shoots as good as my revolver, I am happy.

[MyFlatline]

In my Marlin 444 microgroove I have used the same 255gr bullet as the 44 with good success.185620
IMR 4198 has been good

[tdoyka]

the 1 in 38" twist goes around 180gr - 350gr boolit and "velocity is your friend".

a 1 in 20" twist goes around 180gr - 450+gr boolit and velocity does not matter.

[Lloyd Smale]

My outfitter is a tack driver with the ballistic cast 340 lfngc.

[44man]

the 1 in 38" twist goes around 180gr - 350gr boolit and "velocity is your friend".

a 1 in 20" twist goes around 180gr - 450+gr boolit and velocity does not matter.
Good way to say it.

[tdoyka]

Good way to say it.


i try!!![smilie=l:

the "velocity is your friend" goes to another guy that is on marlin's forum. there is another guy that uses a 1 in 20" twist( marlin model 444) with a 455gr sg (safari grade) cast boolit. another guy uses an old 40 s&w case and fills it up with lead and it goes around 275gr boolit.

[FAsmus]

andym79 (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?21816-andym79);

You say: "I am thinking of getting a 444 Marlin setup with a 1:20" barrel."

I have a 444 with a 1:18 twist on a single shot action. I call it the "44/63 Ballard" so the singleshot boys will accept my rifle more readily on their firing line.

I shoot this rifle with a 500 grain custom bullet from Paul Jones. 19 grains 4759 @ 1259 fps works for me over targets as far off as 830 yards.

Sorry, the 500 grain will not fit a lever rifle from the magazine..

FAsmus

[andym79]

500 grain so its a bit like a .429 version of a 45-70 single shot!

That is a large bullet. still nice to hear that the 444 can handle it.

I do a lot of my shooting regardless of caliber by single loading, because most of my shooting is at the range or in competitions, of which most stages don't require magazine loading.

[FAsmus]

andym79; (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?21816-andym79)


Yes, that was the idea.

I wanted something smaller than a 45/70 ~ Everyone had one of those.

I didn't want to go all the way back to a 40/65 either. I have one on a M1895 Marlin and it does OK but bigger is better right?

The trouble with 44 is that there is a very limited selection of bullet molds - thus the need for the custom tools. Nice stuff - but pricey.

- F

[andym79]

Hi don't suppose you have any experience with a 365 or 410 grain bullet in the 444 do you?

[FAsmus]

andym79 (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?21816-andym79);

The lightest bullets fired in the 444 were the typical 240 grain pistol designs.

I loaded these over things like 7 - 10 grains of 700X for indoor gallery practice. At 50 feet they would print into one hole.

For my long range shooting the lightest bullet was a Mos custom GC design at 465 grains. - By the way, it is for sale..

Forrest

[44man]

Hi don't suppose you have any experience with a 365 or 410 grain bullet in the 444 do you?
Might still be too heavy for a 1 in 20".

[tdoyka]

a 1 in 20" will be alright, but if you own a lever rifle it might not fit. The 444 Marlin® (http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/444-marlin/) i'd ask about that and i would go with "flat top"(guy who does alot with the 444) suggestions.

[andym79]

Hi I am still considering this project. Does anyone have more information.

Have any existing posters done more work with the 444?

[FAsmus]

Gentlemen:

I recently got my 444 on the FBW action back on the line.

I'm using the Mos custom 429-465-GC over 23 grans 4759.

My eyes are now bad enough that I'm forced to use a (yuck) scope sight.

I made a custom scope base with 0.090 taper built into it. This allows me to reach all the way out to the 835 yard distance with only the scope's internal adjustments.

Good evening, Forrest

[andym79]

How does it go at 500 Forrest?
What twist do you have, you have an 1:18 don't you? I have a choice of 1:16 or 1:29 which would you go for? The 20 would go up to 400 wouldn't it?

[EDG]

The 1:20 twist is very good but I do not like the 2.225" long case in the Marlin. The .444 case is too long for the Marlin lever gun with heavy long round nosed bullets. Those bullets just hang out of the case too far and will not work through the Marlin action.
It would be better with a 1.900 or 2.000 case. The .444 Marlin when used with long nosed heavy bullets belongs in a single shot. The elliptical nose bullets with the small round meplat probably are not too safe in a tube magazine.
Even the 40-65 with the 2.1" case it is too long for a repeater with heavy bullets plus you cannot use anything with a significant point.

The velocities you list are good.
I find those are the best compromise between accuracy and fun shooting with smokeless and cast bullets in bigger bores.


Hi guys, I am thinking of getting a 444marlin setup with a 1:20" barrel.

I want to shoot large bullets 300+ grains at pretty low velocity 1000-1300fps, does anyone have experience with this?

I am very keen to hear!

[andym79]

Thanks, yes they just did make the 444 too long for a repeater! I am seriously considering putting it into a Henry Martini.

I am actually having a .416-356w wildcat on a Win94 bb done right now, the brass lands at 1.990, I am trimming it back to 1.950" and having it chambered to 1.970". Hopefully that works out.

[GhostHawk]

.444marlin in a single shot is a thing of joy. Yes Martini action would be awesome.

I think my H&R is a 1 in 14, I could be wrong. It could be as fast as 1 in 10.

Avoid the slow twists if you want to shoot large bullets. They won't stabilize.

Too fast is IMO not good either.

For Cast hard to beat 1 in 16 IMO. Or one step either side of it.

[FAsmus]

andym79;

Yes I believe it is 1:18. 1:16 in unnecessarily fast - while 1:29 is too slow for the long heavy bullets.

500 yards is easy - we go out to 835 here and the load does just fine.

If you're asking about 500 grain bullets I have used them in this rifle with excellent results as well as the 465 GC.

Forrest