Project .358 Winchester Deer Anchor rifle

[Alabama358]

Lurker just turned Member...

After months and months of lurking and reading about the magical .358 Win. I went down to the safe and did a quick inventory for possible candidates. I didn't find any worn out barrels or any of the usual mechanical defects that commonly relocate rifles to a taped up box with JESS’s address scribed on them. So whats a fella to do?
My wife says that given five minutes I can come up with a justification for just about anything.
Redundancy… That was the answer! I laid two rifles side by side, a Remington 700P and a Remington 700 SPS Tactical AAC-SD. Both rifles in 308
After a short time of deliberation and listening to each of the rifles pleas to be turned into the mighty .358 Winchester I had to give the nod to the SPS. Although the 700P does have many merits, the 20” heavy barrel with ⅝-24 threaded muzzle (possible Can and subsonic loads later) and the X-Mark Pro externally adjustable trigger nudged the SPS ahead on the score card.
So the next step was another month of searching all of the threads for anything regarding the .358 Win. After my eyes were blurred with all of the opinions (which there are many) on everything from barrel length, powders, primers, cases, boolit molds, boolit composition etc.etc.etc
Finally I just called JESS and said can you turn this SPS into a .358 winchester that will shoot MOA with cast boolits. He asked me a few questions and said box it up and send it to me and I will get it done without delay. Thats all there was to it! I think it was just around a 10 day turn around. JESS is great to work with and his work seems to be top notch.
Now I know some folks think it is sacrilege to take a perfectly good rifle and modify it into something that it wasn't when it rolled off the factory line and there are some cases that I would agree. That being said… I don’t presume to tell folks what to do with their stuff.

Now on to the Boolit making. I have been reloading since the early 80s and shooting for many years prior. Why I have never cast my own projectiles is a mystery in itself so I have a lot of catching up to do and appreciate the apprenticeship offered by this forum.
Here is what I have so far -

RCBS 35-200 Mold
Lee Precision 20# Pro 4 Pot (should arrive in a few days)
50# Pure Lead - (from Rotometals)
5# Antimonial Lead Ingot 3-5% antimony I think. (Marked on back AntLead from Rotometals)
No WW available
RCBS .358 Die set
Lee .358 lube and size kit
Hornady Lock&Load press
Lots of 308 brass

So my next step is to cast some boolits. As I said I have no WW available. With what I have (pure lead & antlead) can I make some darn boolits? If not what do I need to add to the pot?
Thanks in advance for your assistance in bringing this project to fruition. I look forward to coming into the fold.

Semper FI

[Yodogsandman]

Now you need some antimonial lead with tin. Something with a fairly known composition. This depends on what you want to do with it. Something close to the composition clip on wheel weights (COWW) with a little tin added would work. Look for COWW or order from Roto metals.

http://www.lasc.us/SuperHard.htm

[Tatume]

You need some tin, and you need more antimony. If you mix five pounds of 4% antimony with 13 pounds of pure lead, you will have 18 pounds of 1% antimony, 0% tin, and 99% lead. You should try for at least 3% antimony, and 1 - 2% tin. Personally, I like 2% tin, and 5% antimony for rifle bullets.

There's lots of good bullet metal available here on the S&S forum.

Also, you need a belling die. I use the Lee Universal.

[redriverhunter]

May I ask what the twist rate is? thanks rrh

[xdmalder]

Probably gonna need a larger sizing die as well but won't know until you slug the barrel and throat

[runfiverun]

you don't need to get all fancy with the 358.
about 2% antimony and .5-.7% tin and a bucket of water is all you need.
I size to 358 for mine.
I put some powder under the boolit.
[okay a lot of rl-19]
but the 358 win is too easy to go too far with and it will tear a deer up if you miss the alloy meplat velocity balance.

[xdmalder]

you don't need to get all fancy with the 358.
about 2% antimony and .5-.7% tin and a bucket of water is all you need.
I size to 358 for mine.
I put some powder under the boolit.
[okay a lot of rl-19]
but the 358 win is too easy to go too far with and it will tear a deer up if you miss the alloy meplat velocity balance.

What is your preference for meplat %, alloy, and velocity?

[Alabama358]

May I ask what the twist rate is? thanks rrh

1 in 10 Twist with a 3 groove

[Alabama358]

Probably gonna need a larger sizing die as well but won't know until you slug the barrel and throat

Yes, I really do need to slug the barrel before I go to far.
I really do enjoy building very accurate loads. I am fortunate to have a 100 meter target set up within 75 feet of my reloading bench, so developing loads and testing them is enjoyable and efficient.

[Alabama358]

you don't need to get all fancy with the 358.
about 2% antimony and .5-.7% tin and a bucket of water is all you need.
I size to 358 for mine.
I put some powder under the boolit.
[okay a lot of rl-19]
but the 358 win is too easy to go too far with and it will tear a deer up if you miss the alloy meplat velocity balance.
What is your thought on IMR 4064? I have a few pounds of it put up and considered starting there.

[Tatume]

I've had very good results using IMR 4895 and H4895 with cast bullets. IMR 4064 is similar, and should also do very well.

[richhodg66]

The .358 is awesome. In my Savage 99, I use that same RCBS flat nose and 40 grains of IMR 4320. Shoots well and kills deer well.

[RU shooter]

1 in 10 Twist with a 3 groove
That's quick for a 35 cal !

[runfiverun]

that is quick.
not a big deal though 2200 should be doable without a ton of work.
the 200gr rcbs [or copy] should do just fine at that speed.

I'm running about 2350 with the saeco #248 [250grs]
it has a quite small meplat probably in the 30% range.
but my alloy is what I state above with a whiff of copper.
the smaller meplat doesn't transfer all the energy at the surface so allows for penetration.
it does however move the nose some on contact.
if I shoot for higher shoulder shots on 225-250 lb deer it generally punches the scapula and shuts everything down and exits.
on a 150-175 lb doe the reaction Is they generally rear up on their hind legs come down and face plow a few yards.
if I can get a quartering away or uphill and away shot through the ribs into the off shoulder they usually drop and struggle trying to get back up again.
I like the uphill shot since I can clip the top of the heart on my way to the shoulder joint.

Goodsteel has a sticky in the hunting section where we show what can go wrong and I explain why I use the smaller meplat at higher velocity in my rifle in greater detail.

[Alabama358]

I did see Goodsteel's sticky and it was quite enlightening. It really does illustrate the marriage between speed and alloy composition with regards to boolit performance.
My goal for this rifle build is to run the RCBS 200gn boolit right around 2000 fps. I am not ridged on this velocity, truth be told I dint really care if it is 1800 or 2100. I will let the accuracy dictate the load velocity and then work on the alloy to get the desired boolit performance.
The rife is a short range (200 meters or less) go to anchor for Alabama whitetails.
I picked up a box of Hornady 200gr J-words to sight in the scope, used all but two. The next day I was cooking some eggs in the morning and looked out of the kitchen window and there stood a rather large doe about 81 yards out scrounging for acorns. I shoved a cartridge in, stood on the porch took the shot. She dropped like an anvil fell out of the sky and hit her between the running lights. The J-word just clipped her on the backside of the shoulder and through the ribs behind the shoulder on the backside.
After I gutted and skinned it I brought it up the the house so the wife could butcher it up. My wife took one look at it and said "What happen to this thing?" it was blood shot up pretty bad.
The reason I tell story is to demonstrate the good and the bad. DRT being the good the Bloodshot meat the bad.
That being said I am in search of the velocity/alloy boolit combination to give me the DRT without the bloodshot meat

[Nrut]

1 in 10 Twist with a 3 groove
It is much easier to get accuracy at high vel. with a slower twist..
I would go with a 1:16 if Jess offers that..
If not, then a 1:14..

Here is a twist rate calculator..

http://www.bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/

A 1:18 will stabilize the NOE Thumper 310gr. bullet clear down to 1200 fps cast bullet @ 2250'alt. to make my point..

Edit:
Just read your post #15 above..
Didn't realize that your .308 has already been rebored..:oops::oops:

[Alabama358]

you don't need to get all fancy with the 358.
about 2% antimony and .5-.7% tin and a bucket of water is all you need.
I size to 358 for mine.
I put some powder under the boolit.
[okay a lot of rl-19]
but the 358 win is too easy to go too far with and it will tear a deer up if you miss the alloy meplat velocity balance.

What is the cheapest source of tin?

[Silvercreek Farmer]

What is the cheapest source of tin?

Thriftstore/yard sale pewter. May not be 100% tin, but close enough to be treated as such. Also check the swapping and selling section.

[Mike Malat]

What is the cheapest source of tin?

Pewter from your local thrift shop or looking at yard sales. Just treat the pewter as tin.
Mike

[runfiverun]

if you can find it.
I don't have a lot of luck around here.
old solder and sometimes yard sales turn up some stuff.
it's probably easiest to pick some up in the S&S section here, or maybe even on E-bay.

marked pewter is generally 85% tin and stuff marked British metal [or just BM] is generally over 90%.

[Djones]

Did you request 1:10 twist? I talked with Jess a few years ago when I sent my 308 in for 358. He never mentioned 1:10. I asked him what twist to go with for 180-250 grain cast bullets and he said 1:14, that's what I ended up with.

You may may need some RCBS handles for your mold, 35 cal gas checks and some saw dust for flux. Have fun!

David

[Echo]

I also use the Lyman 358315 in my 35 Whelen - it seems to be a clone of the RCBS, or maybe vice versa, weighs the same, and shoots the same, for me.
(What's a Gay person? One who likes their vice versa... bad, I know...)
And if you can scrounge up some type metal - I use 7-1 base (WW/range/Pb to Monotype, and add 1% Sn, for my starting alloy. 10-1 using Foundry type. Makes a danged good hot alloy, and I cut it 50/50 + another 1% Sn for pistol boolits.
And eBay will show you deals for solder, probably the most stable source for cheap Sn. Using 50/50 solder to modify the alloy, the amount of Pb in the solder really doesn't count much - just consider the ingot as having whatever amount of Sn, and ignore the added Pb. Or use a calculator, to be absolutely sure exactly what the % of Sn you have.