CVA--Deer Creek

[BPJONES]

I've come across a CVA mountain rifle but I'm unsure of the specifics. I believe it has a Deer Creek barrel on it as it just says Connecticut Valley Arms Inc, Black Powder Only 50 Caliber. It doesn't say made in USA or Spain and there are no Spanish proof marks etc. It also has a pewter nose cap and looks like Deer Creek trigger guard. I'm unsure of the time period this rifle might be from as well as did Deer Creek make these rifles or supply parts to CVA? I assume they are better than the Spanish made CVA?

[johnson1942]

i have built 3 deer creek cva rifles. i cannot tell you if yours is deer creek or not. the deer creek ones have a 1/60 twist and the ones made overseas are 1/48 twist. the 1/60 twist barrels are made at deer creek. they are tackdrivers and 1 hole guns at 100 yards even with 100 grains of real black behind the ball. i gave one of the finished guns to a minister and sold two to my neighbor. the deer creek ones had real maple stocks as the cva overseas ones were most likely beech. if the price is right and it has a 1/60 twist then you got your self a very good gun. they will take deer to 200 yards.

[waarp8nt]

I have heard they are great, but cannot say first hand as I have never owned one. Pull the barrel and look under it to see if there are any stamps or markings.

[bubba.50]

I had a Deer Creek in 45 caliber. it shot great & is now the favorite gun of the feller I sold it to. if yers has that God-awful triggerguard that looks like it belongs on a double-barrel shotgun Deer Creek has the correct mountain rifle guards listed on their site.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

cva had 1:66 mountain rifle barrels in 45-50cal. I believe the 54 and 58cal were actually the slower 1:72 twist.

[BPJONES]

Here are a couple of poor pics. I'll know better when I have it in hand and will post some better pics.
http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j470/picadilly1/CVA/cva3_zpsktreudt2.jpg (http://s1087.photobucket.com/user/picadilly1/media/CVA/cva3_zpsktreudt2.jpg.html)
http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j470/picadilly1/CVA/image_zpsjojy1dva.jpg (http://s1087.photobucket.com/user/picadilly1/media/CVA/image_zpsjojy1dva.jpg.html)

[izzyjoe]

Ive been told those are some great shooters, I had a chance to pick one up a few years ago, but I didn't really have the money, and I didn't really need it, so I passed.

[swathdiver]

You have a regular CVA Mountain Rifle with a Maple stock. These were made in Spain and with some legal wrangling there are no proof marks on any of them.

Yours appears to be of the time period from 1979 through 1984 by the looks of it. Many of the later guns had chromed bores at times, 1:48 twist at times, walnut stocks at times and different trigger guards. All the early .45, .50 and .54s were 1:66 Twist. The .58s were 1:72.

Yours is also probably a kit gun due to the plain barrel but I'd have to see the cheek piece to be sure. But then again, a lot can happen in 35 years.

[BPJONES]

I thought if it is a Spanish gun the barrel will say "made in Spain" and or have other markings indicating powder charge etc. This barrel has no other markings. I also read that the Spanish guns will have brass furniture and quite possibly beech stocks.
I've come across several other posts indicating that guns that were marked the way this barrel is marked , along with the furniture, were Deer Creek and supposedly the barrels have Douglas rifling? I did read that with the Spanish guns there was a controversy as to whether or not the guns were actually proof tested but that they still bore the Spanish proof marks. I have another Spanish muzzleloader, and have seen a few others, plus I have several Spanish double barrel shotguns. They all bear Spanish proof marks as it is law to be stamped as such in countries that have proof laws, which is most countries except North America. Whether those Spanish CVA's were actually tested before being stamped with the proof mark was the controversy.

[Boz330]

Deer Creek rifled their barrels in house and as someone else pointed out they shoot very nice. Mine didn't start shooting good till I loaded a 100gr of 3F. It is a 50 and has put several deer down. Since Deer Creek has been sold I'm not sure what things are like up there but they offer a lot of the CVA parts.

Bob

[fixit]

I was out at deer creek during deer season, and apparently the new owners are firing up the barrel making lathes to go back into production. I don't recall if they are going to sell the barrels or if they are only for rifles and rifle kits.

[bubba.50]

they list in-the-white Mountain Rifle barrels on their website in 45 & 50 caliber, flint or percussion for $115.00 no matter which. no complete Mountain Rifles are listed.

[swathdiver]

There is all kinds of misinformation floating around as gospel when it comes to the CVA and Deer Creek MRs.

I try to base my information partly on all of the ones I've handled and own and my extensive list of CVA catalogs which show the differences between years if any.

All MRs have German Silver and or steel furniture. The CVA Frontier Rifle is very similar and had brass furniture; its brass nose cap and escutcheons could interchange. After 30-40 years, one could see a rifle in any kind of configuration but seeing it in such condition does not necessarily mean it is in its original condition.

[54bore]

BPJONES, Its a nice lookin old rifle!

[BPJONES]

There is all kinds of misinformation floating around as gospel when it comes to the CVA and Deer Creek MRs.


I guess my main concern has to do with the barrel. No doubt this gun likely has a Spanish lock on it. I'll know more today as it is supposed to be delivered today. It's just that any barrel that I have seen on a firearm, and I have many, from a country with proof laws were marked with some kind of marks, even going back over 180 years. Even Randy Wakeman who kind of stirred up this CVA being dangerous hornets nest, remarked in his articles that the Spanish guns bore some kind of markings but cast doubt if they were actually ever tested. That, and several posts on the net by those who say barrels unmarked such as these were by Deer Creek with Douglas rifling, creates confusion. It will be the first barrel I have come across from another country with proof laws that didn't bear some kind of marking but I guess there is a first time for everything. As an aside, several people who have barrels unmarked ,such as this one, claim they are very accurate and I have come across no reports of these barrels blowing up. So if they are Spanish barrels ,it kind of casts doubt on Randy Wakemans reports from back then, in my opinion.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

cva never had any issues with the spanish barrels, especially in the sidelock version. Its the dummy behind the trgger that causes the problems. CVA stopped making them however, due to people not caring for the nipple/ nipple threads and then trying to sue them when they'd blow out. I've got one of the USA made Mountain rifle barrels from 1976-77? first year mr and sadly, someone has abused it, BUT, it just might be a shooter once cleaned up.

[mooman76]

I don't know if it's true but heard at one point in time, CVA imported barrels particularly for the Mountain rifles, unbreeched thus the no proof marks and then the breeched them, themselves.

[dualsport]

My old CVA MR .50 is a tack driver for sure. Says 'Spain' on the barrel.

[bubba.50]

the Deer Creek I had, and the several others I've seen, had absolutely no markin's at all except the caliber stamped on top of the barrel near the breechplug & maybe a serial number. and had the most gosh-awful triggerguard ever put on a gun. looked like it belonged on a double-barrel. Deer Creek musta got a heckuva deal on'em somewhere to even consider usin'em. that gun was a tack-driver though.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

I like that DC trigger guard, it allows for gloved trigger finger VS cvas smaller trigger guard.

[bubba.50]

I put a regular Mountain Rifle guard on it & had plenty of room to wear gloves with it. next time I run across that old guard in the junk closet I'll get it out for ya.

[Gtek]

I picked one up years ago and it is a rock lock with a 32" to tang and 1-48", bore really nice and exterior browned. Appears to be same stamping except small SPAIN 1/4" to right/aft, s/n 0041XX. I have not shot this one but it's on the list, if worthy then makeover. Only problem I have with this one and the two Frontiers that live here, even high arm hold and still tough getting down on them irons with my melon head and monkey arms. The story line I tend to believe is the ones with the large MADE IN USA on left flat were the first series and had the Douglas barrel.

[BPJONES]

The rifle arrived today so I took a couple of more pics. There are no other markings on the barrel from what I have already shown except for there is a serial number. Mine does not say Spain anywhere by the serial number. I don't know if a serial number signifies it's not a kit gun? Did kit guns have serial numbers? It's a very well built rifle, well put together including the in-letting. I was actually quite surprised at how it's built. I don't think it likely saw a lot of use. The bore is very clean and there is no pitting/speckling anywhere near the nipple, drum or breech plug. From what I take from reading I have done is that yes, the early guns were marked Made in USA with Douglas barrels. Then you have guns with Spain marked on them. Then you also have Deer Creek guns that have no Spanish markings on the barrels and the barrels have Douglas rifling as the Douglas rifling equipment was used. Anyhow, whatever the true facts, it's not a bad looking rifle. I kind of like the trigger guard although I have not put it to actual use yet.http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j470/picadilly1/CVA/DSCF3197_zpsg7f85nn1.jpg (http://s1087.photobucket.com/user/picadilly1/media/CVA/DSCF3197_zpsg7f85nn1.jpg.html)http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j470/picadilly1/CVA/DSCF3198_zpswnfpuqi8.jpg (http://s1087.photobucket.com/user/picadilly1/media/CVA/DSCF3198_zpswnfpuqi8.jpg.html)http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j470/picadilly1/CVA/DSCF3193_zpshvfiyj5b.jpg (http://s1087.photobucket.com/user/picadilly1/media/CVA/DSCF3193_zpshvfiyj5b.jpg.html)

[bubba.50]

you have yerself an awesome rifle there friend. Deer Creek has the double-set triggers listed for 32 bucks if yer interested in restorin' it to original condition.

[725]

When you get it, look on the inside of the hammer. Some will have "SPAIN" impressed on it

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

all of the locks were made in spain, the difference was the barrel.

Thats certainly maple stock. The single trigger was most likely changed out by the previous owner, or its broken off. All MRs should have double set triggers. Its also the correct MR trigger guard.

[BPJONES]

When you get it, look on the inside of the hammer. Some will have "SPAIN" impressed on it

The hammer does not say Spain but I removed the lock and Spain is on the inside of the lock.

[BPJONES]

all of the locks were made in spain, the difference was the barrel.

Thats certainly maple stock. The single trigger was most likely changed out by the previous owner, or its broken off. All MRs should have double set triggers. Its also the correct MR trigger guard.

Well there ya go. I took another look and sure enough it did have double triggers as the rear hole is there. So I guess it got broken off or? Anyhow, I will have to pick up a new double trigger!

[BPJONES]

you have yerself an awesome rifle there friend. Deer Creek has the double-set triggers listed for 32 bucks if yer interested in restorin' it to original condition.

That's $200.00 Canadian, lol!

[swathdiver]

Nice rifle, they are all tack drivers. Someone didn't like the shiny pewter nose cap! As stated previous, yours is a Spanish production of '79-'84 vintage. Lack of barrel markings could mean that it was replaced or just didn't get marked, it's not important, they all shoot wonderfully.

Now about Douglas. They made but a few of the very earliest barrels for the MRs. Everything else you hear is false gospel. As for that Randy Wakeman character, his actions were a hit piece on CVA, little different than MSNBCs hit piece on the Remington 700.

Over on the muzzleloading forum there is quite a bit of good information contributed about the MRs history compiled on several threads.

The trigger groups on many MRs were inletted too deep or tightened too much and they set deeper in the mortise which causes them not to set the triggers and operate the lock properly. A little bit of wood added to the front, like a piece of popsicle stick, usually solves the problem.

[BPJONES]

Nice rifle, they are all tack drivers. Someone didn't like the shiny pewter nose cap! As stated previous, yours is a Spanish production of '79-'84 vintage. Lack of barrel markings could mean that it was replaced or just didn't get marked, it's not important, they all shoot wonderfully.

Now about Douglas. They made but a few of the very earliest barrels for the MRs. Everything else you hear is false gospel. As for that Randy Wakeman character, his actions were a hit piece on CVA, little different than MSNBCs hit piece on the Remington 700.

Over on the muzzleloading forum there is quite a bit of good information contributed about the MRs history compiled on several threads.

The trigger groups on many MRs were inletted too deep or tightened too much and they set deeper in the mortise which causes them not to set the triggers and operate the lock properly. A little bit of wood added to the front, like a piece of popsicle stick, usually solves the problem.

I'll have to see how it works once I get a new trigger group.

[swathdiver]

Are my eyes deceiving me or does that rifle have square ramrod thimbles? The ramrod tip looks like the usual aluminum for early guns too. Might be a '79 vintage using up leftover parts from USA made guns.

[dondiego]

It appears that the tenons are inserted from the left side. Is that normal for this rifle?

[bubba.50]

whether they are original to it or not, it definitely has the early hexagon thimbles.

the wedges can be inserted either from the right or the left at the preference of the shooter. to me they look better if the heads are on the same side as the lock.

[BPJONES]

Are my eyes deceiving me or does that rifle have square ramrod thimbles? The ramrod tip looks like the usual aluminum for early guns too. Might be a '79 vintage using up leftover parts from USA made guns.

Yes, they are hexagon thimbles and aluminum ramrod tip.