berdan primer conversions revisited AGAIN

[gutpile]

i have a large quantity of hoarded berdan, high quality cleaned washed brass in different calibers

and i ran across this http://www.russianreloads.com/ the master kit is pricey.........

has anyone tried it???? they are using it on steel cases some spare bits and using it on brass my great greats
might be using it...........:roll:

thoughts?????

gutpile

[Der Gebirgsjager]

There's a lot of information archived here on this site about converting berdan primed brass to boxer. Run a search or two and you'll have several hours of information and learning for the reading.

[Scharfschuetze]

I second Gebirgsjaeger's comments. Search for your topic and add Larry Gibson to the search as well. He wrote extensively on the topic. I have made the conversions following his instructions with the 303 British using the good South African Berdan cases. It's best to have a drill press to process the cases. It's much easier to drill out the little nipple in the primer pocket if the case is held securely for the drill bit too.

Once done, you'll actually have a much larger area for the ingress of the primer jet into the case. Start your loads low and work up. I've actually never seen much difference in large FHs v. standard FHs; but it is a word to the wise.

[Dadswickedammo]

I have done this conversion many times with not much real success. It just breaks my heart to toss quality BRASS and I am the total do it yourself guy I get more joy from tinkering with ammo and guns then shooting. Berdan conversion not real hard to do but real hard to do well every time. Just my experience. Good luck

[sutherpride59]

I'm far from an expert but I did it with some 7.62x39 brass with a hand drill and 5 out 20 came out alright. I put all the brass of to the side till I find a deal on a drill press. With a hand drill it just isn't worth the time or effort. I had better success useing the hydro method and glueing the primers in but you can't run the ammo hot or they start to come out.

[reddog81]

$150 for a box that holds the brass while you drill seems very pricey.

[Idz]

Many ways to solve this:
1-convert to boxer
2-find Berdan primers
3-make your own priming compound and reload primers
4-use a rollcap and a little black powder and reload the primers

[sutherpride59]

Ugh.... 3 & 4 sound like end of the world scenarios. If you have a press convert to boxer primers via Larry Gibsons method. If not then you could make your own jig for hand drilling them but good luck.

[sutherpride59]

I just remembered I watched a video a while back ago of a guy who fashioned a deprived that actually punched through the back of the case. It fit on his press and was a normal depriving die with a thick sharp depriving pin. Could try to shape something like that and tighten it down in a Lee deprimer.

[Johnny_V]

I had made a collet for doing this and the primers were drilled out on my milling machine. At first this worked perfect, but then thing started to go south after a couple firings, so I abandoned the project. I think the only safe way of doing the conversion is to use boxer primed brass. Just my 2¢ though.

A picture of my 7.62 x 39 custom made collet and closer for the mill
184889

[WRideout]

I converted some 7.5 Swiss using, I think, Larry Gibson's method, which is to drill out the bottom of the primer, and leave the sides in the hole as a bushing of sorts to hold the new boxer primer. Some worked okay, but the "bushings" frequently came loose. I tried drilling flash hole, then drilling out the bottom, then swaging with an RCBS primer pocket tool. The "bushings" were to loose to stay put, and the new primers would not fit.

In a moment of inspiration, I tried hydraulic decapping, then more or less swage the opening of the primer hole using a steel ball on the top of the press ram. I did succeed in modifying the top of the ram to the point that regular shell holders would not fit. Back to the drawing board.

There are instructions around for using small diameter copper tubing to make the bushing that goes in the primer hole, but I haven't tried that yet. All in all, converting cases seems to something you need to be driven to do; either because you can't get brass for that caliber any other way, or because you are a machinist at heart, and love a challenge. BTW I did the drilling on the 7.5 Swiss cases on my buddy's lathe, which greatly simplified alignment.

Wayne

[6.5 CM]

HI, I have over 1000 rounds of beautiful modern German mil-spec 7.62x51 ammo. I did my best to measure the primer pocket hole w/vernier calipers and compared to Win 308. My eyes say they are the same size although I know the German is Berdan. I'm gonna try part one of Gibson's method, pry out the fired primer, cut out the 3 stake crimp and see what I end up with. More to follow. Thanks Larry !!!

[jdfoxinc]

Go to 22reloder.com. they make a drill jig for Lyman, Hornady, and RCBS dies that guides the drill bit to drill the flash hold/depriming hole. They say to use the included drill stop to keep from penetrating the origional primer cup. Deprime as usual then press one of the sleeves they make to hold the LRP in place. Claim it lasts the life of the brass. I'm going to try L.G.' s method of leaving the sides of the origional primer cup in place swaged to LRP size. If it comes out after firing use one of 22rl sleeves.

[6.5 CM]

Did you mean "http://www.22reloader.com/" ? All they show is stuff to reload 22 rimfire and the site is broken.

There is no site "22reloder.com"

The only site I found with a kit for 308 is on http://www.russianreloads.com
This one: http://products.russianreloads.com/partizan-mk-v-conversion-system/44-partizan-mk-v-polymer-size-medium.html

Until I shoot some of mine and remove the primer (tomorrow) I won't know what size they are for sure. They appear far smaller than those in military 7.62x54.

[Traffer]

HI, I have over 1000 rounds of beautiful modern German mil-spec 7.62x51 ammo. I did my best to measure the primer pocket hole w/vernier calipers and compared to Win 308. My eyes say they are the same size although I know the German is Berdan. I'm gonna try part one of Gibson's method, pry out the fired primer, cut out the 3 stake crimp and see what I end up with. More to follow. Thanks Larry !!!

Wow I would reprime the Berdan primer cups. I am trying to talk Marshall into making a video on how to make the priming compound. Once you have that the actual priming job not nearly as involved as converting to Boxer primer cups.

[6.5 CM]

I blew up enough stuff as a kid with my Gilbert's chemeristy set. beside, once converted, they are good for life with cast boolits.

[GregLaROCHE]

Wow I would reprime the Berdan primer cups. I am trying to talk Marshall into making a video on how to make the priming compound. Once you have that the actual priming job not nearly as involved as converting to Boxer primer cups.

I can well understand doing something just for the sake of tinkering with it. Otherwise, I am sure I’ve seen Berdan primers for sale and not much difference in price from Boxer primers.

[Traffer]

I can well understand doing something just for the sake of tinkering with it. Otherwise, I am sure I’ve seen Berdan primers for sale and not much difference in price from Boxer primers.

For me, considering that perhaps 70% of the cost of reloading 9mm and other smaller pistol calibers is the price of the primers, reloading them becomes attractive. For example, I have to pay about 4 cents per primer for 9mm. The cost of lead is practically nill, the cost of brass is practically nill and the cost of powder is about 2 cents. So the cost of reloading 9mm goes from 6 cents per round to 2 cents per round. This is kind of price I like to pay for reloading 9mm. Maybe it's just me...

[Johnny_V]

I can well understand doing something just for the sake of tinkering with it. Otherwise, I am sure I’ve seen Berdan primers for sale and not much difference in price from Boxer primers.
Greg, where have you seen Berdan primers for sale? We have looked high and low and it seems as though all the suppliers in the US no longer carry them. Someone said that Berdans are restricted from import, how true is that, I'm not sure.

[HangFireW8]

Could be the countries where berdan primers are made have US import restrictions on arms and ammo.

[jdfoxinc]

My browser automatically fills in the http:www.

I left out part of the site name. It is 22lrreloader.com

I have the kit for RCBS dies in hand.

[6.5 CM]

Here's some c. 2008 info on Berdan primers:

http://www.dave-cushman.net/shot/berdan_supplies_dimensions.html

Powder Valley used to sell them - worth a call.

Cushmans info (2207) says the Euro 7.62x51 Berdan is .217. Once I get some of mine apart I'll see. A std LR .210, so if true, it would be sloppy. If so I'll have to use the Gibson drill and swage method to use the side of the old primer to hold the new.

Old info from here: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/archive/index.php/t-122303.html

[6.5 CM]

Or, there are very high temp sealants (2500 F) that might be able to seal a .210 primer in a .217 hole. Guess the cup would expand to seal as well.

[GregLaROCHE]

Sorry, I can’t remember where I saw the Berdan primers before. I did a quick search on google and found this. I hope it helps.

https://www.budgetshootersupply.ca/product/dominion-arms-non-corrosive-kv-24n-berdan-large-rifle-primers-100sleeve/

[GregLaROCHE]

Sorry, I can’t remember where I saw the Berdan primers before. I did a quick search on google and found this. I hope it helps.

https://www.budgetshootersupply.ca/product/dominion-arms-non-corrosive-kv-24n-berdan-large-rifle-primers-100sleeve/

I looked at this site and found out they are in Canada. Don’t know about shipping to the US. All these new restrictions really suck.

[6.5 CM]

My browser automatically fills in the http:www.

I left out part of the site name. It is 22lrreloader.com

I have the kit for RCBS dies in hand.

That's neat, I'm ordering one NOW!!!

[6.5 CM]

Well it's not neat at all. Mine arrived and I tried it out. A "few " shortcomings:
1. It does not drill the hole in the center of the case. The bushing is too short and the bit to flexible.
2. The bit collar is too sloppy and slides on the bit no matter how much you crank on the allen screw.
3. 40 bucks for 2 bits, 1 collar and a die bushing is excessive.

It's going back!

Went back to the "Gibson method" which produces a centered flash hole IF the firing pin hit the center of the primer. If not, center punch it.

One minor change for my 7.62x51s, which have a .217 Berdan primer, is to (after drilling the flash hole) drill out about 7/8th of the back of the primer. Then use a LR pocket swager (like RCBS) to create a new pocket from the old primer. Since my Berdans are mil-spec crimped, the new pocket a'int going anywhere.

[RogerDat]

I think to get Berdan primers in from Canada requires an end user certificate. It gets treated as military supply and you are required to have certification that it won't end up in a prohibited country.

I hate wasting the brass also. I sent some 303 British to a member that was interested in doing the drilling to seat Boxer in Berdan. I was glad to see it used. For me it would have sat there waiting for "someday" to arrive so I would get around to trying to drill it for Boxer.

I have a few Berdan primers on hand intended to load old brass that is period to a 1937 Mauser. I just like the idea of a few clips loaded with 1938 loads for a 1938 rifle. I use the Lyman pry tool that is still sold to pull the old primers and it works pretty well. Better for the addition of a piece of copper pipe to extend the handle for a bit more leverage. Have to use a hand primer as the press mounted one isn't well suited to seating Berdan primers

[PAT303]

I have lots of really good quality 303 berdan cases that I have converted to shotgun primers. For cast boolit loads they work fine.

[6.5 CM]

I have lots of really good quality 303 berdan cases that I have converted to shotgun primers. For cast boolit loads they work fine.

Could you walk me thru how you do that ? Thanks !

[turtlezx]

if you have brass thats unatanable any place convert to boxer other wise buy boxer brass not worth the trouble
your time would be better spent doing something else like reloading 22 rimfire

[Traffer]

if you have brass thats unatanable any place convert to boxer other wise buy boxer brass not worth the trouble
your time would be better spent doing something else like reloading 22 rimfire
I resemble that remark.
:drinks:

[6.5 CM]

if you have brass thats unatanable any place convert to boxer other wise buy boxer brass not worth the trouble


Wanna tell me where I can "buy" DWM brass ? "unobtainable" ?

[6.5 CM]

Could you walk me thru how you do that ? Thanks !

Waiting ---- please !

[Traffer]

I have lots of really good quality 303 berdan cases that I have converted to shotgun primers. For cast boolit loads they work fine.
Do you mean that you have primed Berdan cases...as in live primers? You are converting them to shotgun primers? Why not just sell the primed brass. Boy I wish I has an Enfield number 4.

[6.5 CM]

No he said he had CASES. Not primed cases.