Had my first casting session today ever...

[jamesp81]

And my results were pretty horrible, but I was not disappointed because I didn't expect it to go perfect the first time :-D

My equipment is a Lyman 10 pound melting pot, Lyman dipper, and a Lee 6 cavity .452 200gr SWC mold. Safety equipment was a long sleeve insulated shirt, insulated gloves, safety glasses, closed top shoes, long pants, and the common sense that God gave a dog.

I started off by melting 3 pounds of lead in the pot. This went fine. I lubed my sprue plate pivot and alignment pins with synthetic two cycle oil, going easy on the stuff. Went fine.

Set my dipper on top of the melt to let it heat up. Then set the corner of my mold in the melt to let it heat up for about 5 minutes. Mold smoked a little, so I'm concerned that my 2 cycle oil might've burned off and I might not have sufficient lube anymore. I'm open to suggestions about what I should use instead. I don't have any conventional beeswax bullet lube, I'm planning to use the 45/45/10 stuff.

All of my casts came out wrinkled. At no point was I ever able to get my mold hot enough for a decent cast, and this was with my melting pot turned up to max the entire time. Next time I'll leave the mold sitting on the melt longer. My other problem was that I didn't have enough lead in the pot to fill the dipper very well, so I never had enough lead to fill all six cavities. Near the end, I usually didn't have enough to fill two cavities, even. I also struggled to keep my dipper hot enough...a couple of times lead solidified in the spout while pouring, and I have a good bit of lead caked onto it at this point. I also think I had lead cooling too much as it transitioned from the dipper spout into the mold.

I suspect the difficulties with my dipper can be traced to two things. 1) Not enough dippable lead in the pot and 2) the prevailing weather conditions. Temperature in my area was 22 degrees with a light breeze. I wonder if having more dippable lead could've overcome the weather issues, but I'm not sure.

I made about 30ish bullets, there might be one in there marginally worth loading and shooting. Maybe. It's a little wrinkled, not bad, though the lube grooves are smooth instead of sharply defined.

Lessons learned:

1. 3 pounds of lead is not enough for a single casting session. Use 5 or more.
2. Leave the mold sitting atop the melt longer for good heat up.
3. Starting out casting with a Lee six cavity mold was a bad idea. Should've got a 2 cavity mold. Fortunately, that is a completely correctable problem.

If anyone can offer any other constructive criticisms, I'd love to hear them. Going to try again tomorrow, time allowing. The wife is disassembling Christmas decorations, of which we have enough to decorate three houses. The setup and tear down is...involved :mrgreen:

[shoot-n-lead]

Sounds like a good start...remember, you will learn something every casting session.

You did not cast long enough to get your mold up to temp. A hot plate helps a lot with getting the mold temp up before starting to cast. Those 6 bangers can be hard to heat up by putting into the alloy...but normally, given enough time...that will work to get them up to close to casting temp.

A casting thermometer is a real help for a beginning caster...not required...but makes it easier to actually know what temp the alloy is...for the most part, efficient and good casting is dependent on maintaining the correct temp of alloy and mold. You will learn to tell about the heat in the mold by how easily you are getting good bullets and drop out. Generally, you will want your alloy around 700 degrees, but it is difficult to know the temp without a thermometer.

That 2 cycle synthetic works well for me...I just lube again before every use of the mold.

This is just me, but if I will be using the same alloy for several casting sessions, I fill the pot up...much easier and quicker than having to add and wait on the pot to come back up to temp. That 6 banger mold will drain a pot QUICKLY.


3. Starting out casting with a Lee six cavity mold was a bad idea. Should've got a 2 cavity mold. Fortunately, that is a completely correctable problem.


Also, remember, just because this mold has 6 cavities...that doesn't mean that you have to use them all...you can use only 1 cavity if that helps..or any amount of them that you can comfortably manage. Start with 1 or 2 and add a cavity as you improve.

Other, far better casters than myself, will be along to give you helpful information...pay attention to what they say.

[jeepyj]

Wondering what your method of cleaning your mould was. Wrinkling could have easly been from the oils in the mould. To get a mould ready I use a tooth brush dipped in a small amount of citric acid (Lemishine) then rinse well then repeat dish soap. Pour fast to start even though you won't get any keepers it will heat your mould up quickly. You'll find after 15 - 20 casts the wrinkles will iron out. Just a bit of patents and some practice and you'll be well on your way in no time. Good luck. - jeepyj

[georgerkahn]

I reside fairly close to the Canada border -- and pretty much gave up on casting from around US Thanksgiving until Easter; even with a PID controlled RCBS ProMelt pot and a inverted-pot "garage" atop my PID regulated mould heating hot-plate, qrinkled boolits are the norm, with HP's a relative impossibility for me when it's below ~40*F in my garage, where I cast. I use bottom-pour on a table with sides, too. "Now" is the time (for me) to load the boolits I cast during the warmer months, and acquire supplies... e.g., while most COWWs now, here, are NOT lead -- I do sometimes get a percentage of a bucket which makes it worth the effort... Plenty of time to glean knowledge from the many experts on this site (I surely am NOT one of them) and perhaps download and read, and study the treatise from the Los Angeles club... http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm -- which is FREE!
BEST wishes -- do NOT get discouraged -- Spring's not that far ahead.... (I hope ;))
geo

[farmerjim]

Congratulations on your casting lesson.
I have never had a mold get hot enough by putting it on top of the pot. Many of the casters here suggested using an electric hotplate to heat your mold before casting. I got one with a solid burner from Wall Mart for $12. It has been one of my best casting purchases. If I put the mold on the burner with the dial between med and Hi I can get the first pour to cast perfect Boolits. I also keep a small pot off to the side full of Ingots of the alloy I am using so that they are hot and do not have moisture on them when I put them in the melt, and do not cool it down much.
I would not use less than 10 lbs of lead to start a casting session. I use 25, and have another 20 sitting on the side to be added as the lead is used up. You do need a full ladle for the lead to keep it's heat. Pour fast to not loose the heat.
I was casting 2 days ago in 35 deg and yes you have to cast faster to keep up the heat. Big boolits will heat the mold more than small ones.
Keep up the casting, and it will all come together.

[CastingFool]

22 deg weather, if casting outside, is not a good thing, specially when trying to use a 6 cav. mold. I had a difficult time casting 45 cal boolits in 44 deg weather, with a 2 cavity mold, so I decided I would wait for warmer temps.

[gwpercle]

You're doing a lot better than you think. Congratulations and welcome.
I'm a dipper caster so I'll throw out what I've learned.
A four cavity mould is all I can handle with a Lyman dipper. I fill two cavities , refill dipper and pour two more. It doesn't hold enough metal to pour six.
Two cycle oil is OK , but it takes so little to contaminate the cavities . I had the same problem...I used way too much. Put 1 drop of 2 cycle on a Q-tip, and apply microscopic amount to areas. Or Liquid Wrench Dry Lubricant will lube the mould and NOT wrinkle boolits , it can be used in place of smoking as a release agent. I finally learned how little oil is needed and to keep it away from the cavities.
The best thing I ever did was buy a 20 pound Lee Magnum Melter, the more hot alloy you have the more boolits you can cast once everything get hot .
Most use a 6 cavity with a bottom pour. I bought one but prefer the dipping method and I like 3 cavity moulds the best.
Keep learning you're on the right track. Casting in cold weather is like swimming with a concrete block tied around your neck, when it warms up you will have a much easier time.
Gary

[MyFlatline]

Sounds like you're on the right track with the right attitude. Just remember, you can always melt away your mistake bullets.
It gets better each time.

[jamesp81]

Wondering what your method of cleaning your mould was. Wrinkling could have easly been from the oils in the mould. To get a mould ready I use a tooth brush dipped in a small amount of citric acid (Lemishine) then rinse well then repeat dish soap. Pour fast to start even though you won't get any keepers it will heat your mould up quickly. You'll find after 15 - 20 casts the wrinkles will iron out. Just a bit of patents and some practice and you'll be well on your way in no time. Good luck. - jeepyj

I used rubbing alcohol and cotton swabs to clean. Perhaps it was not thorough enough. I will clean again more aggressively.

[shoot-n-lead]

I used rubbing alcohol and cotton swabs to clean. Perhaps it was not thorough enough. I will clean again more aggressively.

Most of your problem was lack of heat in the mold.

Nothing wrong with cleaning it again...but if you want to get rid of those wrinkles, get that mold up to the right temp.

[TexasGrunt]

Get some non-chlorinated brake cleaner. That will clean the mold in a split second.

Your problem is most likely the time delay between when you fill your dipper and pour the mold. That lead cools off fast. I've run a spin cast machine before. Dipping 6-8 lbs of lead at a time. A couple of seconds delay in the pour and it causes problems from the lead cooling down.

Of course casting out in the open causes challenges all it's own. Do you not have a garage?

[TexasGrunt]

Most of your problem was lack of heat in the mold.

Nothing wrong with cleaning it again...but if you want to get rid of those wrinkles, get that mold up to the right temp.

Pretty hard to keep a mold hot out in the open with a 22 degree breeze blowing across it.

[runfiverun]

the mold condition was probably part of it.
but your issue is temperature.
fill the pot up.
you can't dip good alloy from a bunch of sludge.

heat the mold up and keep it there.
I have never used a heating thingy to warm up a mold, I have a pot and 700-f lead to do that for me.
I don't care about throwing a few back.

dip the corner of the mold in the lead until the lead doesn't stick.
then start casting just the first 2 cavity's.
do those 2 for the first 10-15 pours you'll see good boolits start coming out of them and feel the cutter break the sprue nice and easy.
add a third and a fourth cavity as you go.

by the time you get ready to do number-5 just fill them all and see how that works.
part of filling fewer cavity's is your getting and keeping heat in the mold and pre-heating the next one over.
plus your building a rhythm with the ladle and making surer moves with your hands.
it also allows you to judge how quickly your going to use lead from the pot.
10 lbs is not going to last long with a 6 cavity mold so be ready to slide another ingot onto the back rim of the pot for a minute before dropping it in the alloy.

the pre-heat of the ingot is important, adding cold alloy to a hot pot will surely gain you a visit from the tinsel fairy.

[TexasGrunt]

Never had a visit from the tinsel fairy from adding a cold ingot to the pot. Adding a wet ingot to the pot will do it though.

I've ran 100-200 lbs of lead through a 100 lb pot in a day doing spin cast stuff. Those ingots were below freezing when they went into the pot.

I've seen condensation on ingots here in Texas in 90 degree temperatures. 100% humidity can do that.

[jblee10]

I use a bottom pour with 6 cavity. Actually for everything, so I can't say much about dipping. But fill the pot with lead. Refill when it gets half empty or so. With more lead in the pot, the temp will recover better. Avoid any moisture on the ingots you use to refill and follow all safety precautions.
It sound to me that your mold just wasn't up to temp. I set a 6 cavity on top of the pot when I plug it in, and I still have to run the mold as fast as I can with a bottom pour pot for about 30 bullets before I achieve fill out. After I start getting good fill out, I slow down. And usually run two molds, but I don't think that would work with dipping.
I also have a single element "hot plate" style kitchen burner that I sometimes preheat molds on. I just place the mold directly on the burner element. l sometimes use it with a cast iron pot to heat ingots . I don't heat them to melting, but just enough so I know they are dry before adding them to my casting pot.
I never bother casting small batches of bullets. To much time is used on prep and warm up.
I think you are real close. Set aside some additional time and run a longer batch and I think you have it.

PS I suppose an old electric skillet would also work for preheating molds and ingots. Just don't eat off of it :)

[Soundguy]

One thing I didn't see mentioned, was what alloy were you using? Was it really straight lead? WW? Any tin?

[gwpercle]

I used rubbing alcohol and cotton swabs to clean. Perhaps it was not thorough enough. I will clean again more aggressively.
Brake cleaner or acetone with a tooth brush. The Lee moulds have a lot of machining oil in the metal pores from the cutting process, my last mould block got a soaking in acetone for a couple hours...that did the trick !
Before that , I would clean the block but the heat from using would drive out more oil. I would clean and cast two or three times before they got right. A mould has to be seasoned also , two or three casting sessions are a normal break in period to get it working, like a cast iron skillet needs to be broken in.
The soaking in acetone just cuts down on drawing the oil out.
Keep your dipper in the pot , full of hot metal. Floating on top it will cool too much.
Mould lube , Permatex Anti-seize compound is a paste , it comes in a tube (automotive section) and tends to stay put, unlike 2 cycle oil . I apply it with a Q-tip also and find it a good mould lube. Just remember to use it very sparingly.
Gary

[Thompsoncustom]

Congratz on your first session i'm sure there will be many more to come. I use cotton swabs with acetone to clean the molds for the first time and it's not 100% guaranteed to get all of the factory oil out.

[reddog81]

Congrats on getting started and even being resilient enough to try and cast in 22 degree weather. Based upon your post you've researched the problems and are off to a good start.

I've never laddle cast so I'm not sure how hard it is to cast quickly but pouring, dropping and repouring as quickly as possible makes a big difference in getting the mold up to temp.

I've always been hesitant to dip the mold in lead. I read it can cause problems having part of mold in 700 lead and the rest of the mold out in 22 degree air. I'm probably wrong as other better casters than myself use that method but, I prefer the use of a hot plate.

[RogerDat]

I ladle cast and use a $20 hot plate (solid top) to pre-heat mold but for some larger molds I had similar issues in cold weather garage. Two things helped.

Cast the first few as fast as I can and drop them right back in pot or to the side. Not going to be good so don't let mold cool down while I'm looking at results. I have a 20# pot so those first few bullets getting dumped back in won't cool things as much as they would in a 10# pot.

You can pour lead so it flows off the side of the mold, dump extra heat to the mold by just flowing lead on the mold from the dipper. Extra shot of heat. If you are out in a breeze your struggle is massively uphill. Garage or shed at the least to block the wind. I sometimes fire up the turkey fryer for smelting just to add some heat and that is when it's about 35* or 40* in there.

Watch for the sprue taking longer to shift from shiny to dull. That will tell you mold is getting hotter. I think my 4 cavity 200 grain 303 Brit takes about a 5 count (not seconds, just slow count to 5) to shift. Give or take. Too hot is when you get bored waiting for the shift in the sprue plate lead puddle.

[jamesp81]

Of course casting out in the open causes challenges all it's own. Do you not have a garage?

Nope. Wish it were so but I don't.

[jamesp81]

One thing I didn't see mentioned, was what alloy were you using? Was it really straight lead? WW? Any tin?

Clip on WW. They had been melted, fluxed, and cast into ingots. Got them from eBay. They looked a little dirty to me so I question how well they were fluxed, but wrinkles aside, the bullets looked ok

[Phlier]

jamesp81,

Let's see some pictures! :)

Most of the time guys are a bit too picky about the boolits they cull. I used to pull out anything that wasn't absolutely perfect, but now as long as the bearing surfaces aren't flawed and the boolit doesn't look like it'll come apart in flight, they get thrown down range at 1,000 fps.

[shoot-n-lead]

jamesp81,

let's see some pictures! :)

most of the time guys are a bit too picky about the boolits they cull. I used to pull out anything that wasn't absolutely perfect, but now as long as the bearing surfaces aren't flawed and the boolit doesn't look like it'll come apart in flight, they get thrown down range at 1,000 fps.

x 2

[Blackwater]

Welcome to our little "club!" Good to have you. It's far from rocket science, but there ARE things that we really need to know, and always, when working with molten metals, we HAVE to observe some pretty simple safety rules. Especially when we're starting out. Hang around here much, and you'll be amazed at what you can learn, and it'll improve your casting beyond what you ever anticipated. And this place is chock full of guys with helpful little hints that get posted pretty regularly.

This is one VERY knowledgeable bunch of folks here! Bet we have you shooting itty bitty groups with your loads in no time! And doing it so cheaply, that you'll wonder how you ever got along without casting!

[mattri]

Great post! Thanks for sharing your first time experience.

So far I have melted old wheel weights into ingots, looking to start casting actual bullets soon, will post similar results I'm sure!

[FredBuddy]

To james and mattri:

I started just as you have about 3 years ago.

I now have a dozen molds and several hundred pounds of wheel weights to smelt.

I fully enjoy the time I spend reloading and shooting my boolits, and having lots of success.

I learned it all here, from the experts. I bought most of my stuff at thrift stores and auctions.

Keep on keepin' on !