Pointy Boolits and Push Through Sizing / Gas Checks

[BlackoutBuilder]

Im thinking about getting an NOE Spire point 200 gr mold, gas checked. I was wondering if a sharp point is going to work to push the boolits through the LEE sizing dies, and will it properly seat the gas checks?

Heres the mold.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=30_359&products_id=209

[Tatume]

Gas checks will not be a problem. Whether you get any blunting of your bullets will depend on how hard they are.

[Westwindmike]

I thought the bullets went through point first, so nothing touches the point?

[Tatume]

The ram only pushes the bullet part way. The point of the next bullet pushes the previous bullet the rest of the way through the die.

If blunting is a problem, you could use a dummy bullet to complete the cycle. Just have two or three that you don't plan to shoot, and pick them out to reuse as they come through.

[cainttype]

A short rod of the proper diameter, or a sacrificed blunt bullet of similar diameter, can be used to push each cast through without distorting the point... A little slower, but effective.

Ooops... late again. :)

[reddog81]

The ram on the pushes the bullet completely through the sizing portion of the die. At least mine do if I work the ram all the way up and have the sizing die all the way down. The tip of the bullet touches the bottom of the previous one but there's not enough pressure to cause any damage.

Slight deformation happens upon seating my 358-135 SP's.

[Blammer]

NOE did send or sell an "adaptor" that went on the top of the next bullet to protect the point and push the next one through....

had to retrieve it each time.

or just get a "longer" push rod, that will put the bullet all the way through the first time, so there is no resistance for the next projectile.

[dragon813gt]

W/ the Lee dies use one of the options suggested above. W/ the NOE push through system the bullet is pushed completely through so you don't have this issue. If use push throughs in a lot of different sizes the NOE system is a lot more economical.

[w30wcf]

BlackoutBuilder,

FYI - Note that the diameter at the base of the forepart is .305" which would be too tight in a .30 cal barrel unless it has been throated far enough to allow that portion to enter.

Tatume makes a good point but since the bullet has passed through the sizing portion there is no resistance other than the weight of the previous bullet on the one being sized. At least that is the way the Lee dies I have work.

w30wcf

[BlackoutBuilder]

w30wcf

Im not following you sir, could you elaborate a bit?

[44man]

I had a lot of trouble with the Lee PT pulling checks back. Revolver FN boolits so I do push base first.
For a pointy boolit I would make a new punch to fit the nose. Even brass would work. Drill the end out, shape close and fill with epoxy, then line up to harden, same thing you do with a seat punch.
I would leave the brass rod the same diameter that fits the shell holder slot in the press so it could stay in the chuck while a boolit is in the tail stock chuck for perfect alignment until the epoxy is hard. Wax or grease the boolit nose. Then turn to fit the die. You will never wear out a brass punch.

[HollowPoint]

I've never had any problem with this bullet and push thru die combination. The ram rod on my Lee sizer is long enough to push those pointy bullets up past the short internal sizing portion of the die. After that the cast bullet just sits there in the slightly larger diameter interior section of the die so that the next bullet being sized just pushes the previous bullet out of the die.

The interior dimensions of the Lee push thru dies all set up the way. If your ram isn't long enough, I can see how you might blunt your bullet tips. If you need to you can make yourself one that's a little longer; or, just use one of the other common sense suggestions that have already been made.

HollowPoint

[6622729]

The ram only pushes the bullet part way. The point of the next bullet pushes the previous bullet the rest of the way through the die.

If blunting is a problem, you could use a dummy bullet to complete the cycle. Just have two or three that you don't plan to shoot, and pick them out to reuse as they come through.

If you have the die adjusted properly the boolit should clear the sizing part of the die. You'll feel the resistance stop. The next boolit just pushes it forward with no pressure on it so points will remain in tact. On my 150gr 300aac boolits, there are 3 boolits in the die before the 4th pops out the top but only that bottom one is under pressure being sized.

[quilbilly]

I have spire point molds in both 30 and 25 calibers and have had no problem with either running them through the Lee push-through.

[robg]

Don't worry the air will flatten the tips more as they fly down range,a good base is what gives accuracy.

[BlackoutBuilder]

I bet I could braze a LEE custom bullet seating punch to the standard pushrod and run them base first.

http://leeprecision.com/custom-bullet-seating-plug.html

[6622729]

I bet I could braze a LEE custom bullet seating punch to the standard pushrod and run them base first.

http://leeprecision.com/custom-bullet-seating-plug.html

To what advantage?

[BigMagShooter]

Don't worry the air will flatten the tips more as they fly down range,a good base is what gives accuracy.


that there is funny... :)

[BlackoutBuilder]

To what advantage?

The LEE part would fit the nose, protecting the point, and pushing them through from the base would make the seating process a little more consistent. I have had some checks fold over themselves by catching the edge as they go into the die body.

[44man]

I have had checks pull back through the die, tapping them back on, on the bench top just leaves them loose. I don't like loose checks. The check has more friction then the boolit in the die.

[gloob]

I have had checks pull back through the die, tapping them back on, on the bench top just leaves them loose. I don't like loose checks. The check has more friction then the boolit in the die.
This won't change if you do it base, first. The reason the checks are loose is the gas check stem is too small. Lapping out the mold is the only definitive cure... unless you want to size your bullet a mic or so smaller.


I have had some checks fold over themselves by catching the edge as they go into the die body.
This might be a case of a burred sizing die. I little lapping of the opening might help?

If your bullets are too small to get good friction in the sizing die, it might be possible that the checks don't get seated quite fully. But nose-first is my preferred method. Personally, I'll preferentially work out the kinks to make nose-first work. Base first, the check will potentially swage itself to the base of the bullet, rather than perpendicular/flat. I dunno about your guy's bullets, but the base of my boolits have a little nub where the sprue cutoff is. I'd call the Lee pusher surface much more flat and perpendicular than the base of my boolits.

[44man]

This won't change if you do it base, first. The reason the checks are loose is the gas check stem is too small. Lapping out the mold is the only definitive cure... unless you want to size your bullet a mic or so smaller.
Not so, make my own molds and checks are hard to get on, need to start them and tap on the bench. The Lee die will still move them back.

[44man]

Get rid of the nub on the base, the plate is too loose. Cut the sprue with little taps at a downward angle.

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

Annealing your gaschecks will help, I'm working on a cure for Lee push throughs
Lee sizing dies will screw in from the bottom and be pushed into the container of your choice
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/James64/20161118_162851w_zpsqlspgs57.jpg

[Soundguy]

The ram only pushes the bullet part way. The point of the next bullet pushes the previous bullet the rest of the way through the die.

If blunting is a problem, you could use a dummy bullet to complete the cycle. Just have two or three that you don't plan to shoot, and pick them out to reuse as they come through.


I think you have the wrong ram stem.

My lee sizer die ram stems completely push the boolit thru the restrictive part of the die, and ALMOST up enough to fall into the red cup. when the stem drops back down, the boolit rests, and the next upcoming boolit pushes the loose resting boolit into the cup, no force involved.

I size nose first, never had a problem... thus the nose never gets blunted, because it sees no contact.

[BCB]

Adjust you sizing die as deeply into the press as you can so that the pushing stem almost touches the bottom of that die…

I am sizing the NOE 311-202-RN and it is 1.19” long and it gets pushed completely through the sizing portion of the Lee die…

I can size one and unscrew the die and simply tap the top of the die on the bench and the sized boolit falls right out…

If you adjust your sizing die correctly, the subsequent boolit being sized does not push the previous boolit through the sizing part of the die. It only pushes it upward—the boolit has already been sized…

Good-luck…BCB

[gloob]

Not so, make my own molds and checks are hard to get on, need to start them and tap on the bench. The Lee die will still move them back.
I believe it but I still think there's a fix. Maybe your bullets are too small for the sizer. So the bullet just sits on top of the check instead of the check and bullet getting pushed together. Maybe it goes without saying, but just in case, you aren't sizing your bullets first, then trying to check them? :)

Lots of us wonder why anyone would intentionally put the bullet through base first... maybe there are checks that are just too short? Is it a specific check/caliber u have problems with?

[Soundguy]

Could be a lube problem, too short of a GC shank, or a very undersized ram stem, or a issue with the ID surface of the sizer. Maybee a mot and some ultra fine polish compound and a couple minutes with a drill will help if it is a finish problem. Post back.

[NoAngel]

I'm sitting here thinking the same thing gloob.

A bullet that is already on size or very close creates no resistance as it's pushed through. Clearly the gas check ain't getting seated consistently if so.

Everyone's free to do what works for them but base first through a Lee sizer make absolutely no sense to me. Also, I have several Lee sizers and never seen one that didn't pass the bullet all the way through the sizing portion of the die in one pass. I screw mine in until the touch the ram or the shoulder of the punch, then back off a little and go. If yours doesn't size the whole bullet in one pass, something is wrong.

[NoAngel]

Annealing your gaschecks will help, I'm working on a cure for Lee push throughs
Lee sizing dies will screw in from the bottom and be pushed into the container of your choice
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/James64/20161118_162851w_zpsqlspgs57.jpg


Can't wait to see the press finished! Another pistonium casting well done Jim.

[MT Chambers]

For a Star I still use nose first then put through a piece of wooden doweling in between pointed bullets, when pushing the wooden part through I don't engage the pump on the down stroke.